EU Bans Claim Water Prevents Dehydration

[PhiMed]

I'm struggling to see how the EU possibly has a case here.

All the other times it was things like only certain bananas had a curviness standard, not your regular bog-standard simply labelled "bananas" type of banana.

But things like saying:

"It declared that shortage of water in the body was just a symptom of dehydration."

That's rather explicit, that seems far too bold faced a lie and if they really did say that that is outrageous to say the cause is a symptom. Symptoms are things like blurred vision, reduced mental clarity, change in urine colour, you know, indications of what is actually happening!

Drinking water doesn't help ease dehydration as much as you would think. You need salt along with the water. Plain water by itself could make things even worse for you.

I need to know the whole story on this one.

Except dehydration is separate from low blood-salinity, Hyponatremia. They may appear similar but they are distinct.

Dehydration IS a lack of water, introducing water DOES counter that. HYDRATION. You have to drink and sweat crazy amounts before hypoatremia becomes a problem.

In only 13% of top athletes who run triathlons experience technical Hypoatremia and they are consuming VAST amounts of water in hot climates, over long distances and have a very targeted glucose-intense diet that tends to cut out salt because... well... salt is bad for you, right?

Also Hyponatremia is very unlikely in the public considering how salty our diets our anyway, you can't get away from the high levels of salt in all our foods and the main mode of loss of sodium (the important part of salt) is when water is lost through sweating. How often do you sweat enough to soak your clothes all the way through?

Actually, hyponatremia is a result of correcting volume depletion with water. Volume depletion is a result of losing isotonic fluid. Dehydration is a result of losing hypotonic fluid. Water is about as hypotonic a fluid as there is, so water most definitely corrects dehydration.

Hyponatremia generally only occurs in amateur athletes who don't really have any business attempting the task at hand. Heat conditioning generally results in the secretion of a more dilute sweat which can easily be replaced with water.

So yet again, dumbasses spoil it for everyone.

Hmm, I never heard of "heat conditioning" reducing sodium loss through sweating. Got anything to back that up? Sure it isn't just the athletes subtly adjust their diet for higher sodium? Remember, it's sodium that is important, not the chloride part of salt/sodium-chloride.

Sources would be nice (can't be that hard to collect sweat of different athletes and compare sodium levels)

<link=http://books.google.com/books?id=L4aZIDbmV3oC&pg=PA532&lpg=PA532&dq=heat+conditioning+exercise+physiology&source=bl&ots=WloTo9Jj-R&sig=fun9llvD0zuPbuSKGvJrJsrmPs0&hl=en&ei=AODMTrekNciItwfbtvh9&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false>Essentials of exercise physiology

It's a pretty well-established, accepted principle of physiology. There's a big table on the page I linked to that details the physiolgic changes that take place when people become conditioned to heat stress. Maybe try reading more before you start calling people out on science next time.

 

[PhiMed]

Sorry, clicked the wrong button.

 

[Treblaine]

I'm struggling to see how the EU possibly has a case here.

All the other times it was things like only certain bananas had a curviness standard, not your regular bog-standard simply labelled "bananas" type of banana.

But things like saying:

"It declared that shortage of water in the body was just a symptom of dehydration."

That's rather explicit, that seems far too bold faced a lie and if they really did say that that is outrageous to say the cause is a symptom. Symptoms are things like blurred vision, reduced mental clarity, change in urine colour, you know, indications of what is actually happening!

Drinking water doesn't help ease dehydration as much as you would think. You need salt along with the water. Plain water by itself could make things even worse for you.

I need to know the whole story on this one.

Except dehydration is separate from low blood-salinity, Hyponatremia. They may appear similar but they are distinct.

Dehydration IS a lack of water, introducing water DOES counter that. HYDRATION. You have to drink and sweat crazy amounts before hypoatremia becomes a problem.

In only 13% of top athletes who run triathlons experience technical Hypoatremia and they are consuming VAST amounts of water in hot climates, over long distances and have a very targeted glucose-intense diet that tends to cut out salt because... well... salt is bad for you, right?

Also Hyponatremia is very unlikely in the public considering how salty our diets our anyway, you can't get away from the high levels of salt in all our foods and the main mode of loss of sodium (the important part of salt) is when water is lost through sweating. How often do you sweat enough to soak your clothes all the way through?

Actually, hyponatremia is a result of correcting volume depletion with water. Volume depletion is a result of losing isotonic fluid. Dehydration is a result of losing hypotonic fluid. Water is about as hypotonic a fluid as there is, so water most definitely corrects dehydration.

Hyponatremia generally only occurs in amateur athletes who don't really have any business attempting the task at hand. Heat conditioning generally results in the secretion of a more dilute sweat which can easily be replaced with water.

So yet again, dumbasses spoil it for everyone.

Hmm, I never heard of "heat conditioning" reducing sodium loss through sweating. Got anything to back that up? Sure it isn't just the athletes subtly adjust their diet for higher sodium? Remember, it's sodium that is important, not the chloride part of salt/sodium-chloride.

Sources would be nice (can't be that hard to collect sweat of different athletes and compare sodium levels)

<link=http://books.google.com/books?id=L4aZIDbmV3oC&pg=PA532&lpg=PA532&dq=heat+conditioning+exercise+physiology&source=bl&ots=WloTo9Jj-R&sig=fun9llvD0zuPbuSKGvJrJsrmPs0&hl=en&ei=AODMTrekNciItwfbtvh9&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false>Essentials of exercise physiology

It's a pretty well-established, accepted principle of physiology. There's a big table on the page I linked to that details the physiolgic changes that take place when people become conditioned to heat stress. Maybe try reading more before you start calling people out on science next time.

I didn't call you out, I simply asked that you provide sources to confirm your claims.

After all, If I believe you how can I possibly pass on that information by saying "oh yeah, some guy on a forum who I don't know, have never met and don't even know his real name said so". It's always great to have first hand information otherwise for any ideas to spread very quickly you have people expecting to believe third hand info.

Sources, quite simply, are nice.

"Maybe try reading more"

Hey, I shouldn't have to search for hours to verify your claim that you could easily point me to where you learned it.

 

[Dr_Pie]

The decision was being hailed as the daftest Brussels edict since the EU sent down laws on how bendy bananas should be.

Well, seeing how this is a well-known joke, and nothing like this was ever brought up in Brussels, I'm going to discredit this entire article.

If the reporter mentions such a notorious prank and believes it as fact, I'm not gonna pay much attention to what they say.

 

[Crazy]

If you sweat and only drink water, then you'll cause a hypotonic solution, which will eventually make some of your cells burst. Can't have that.

That's all I can think of.

 

[galdon2004]

Honestly.. I kind of agree in a way. Claiming your bottled water fights dehydration is about equal to claiming your brand of cereal is asbestos free. Both technically true; but completely irrelevant.

 

[PhiMed]

I'm struggling to see how the EU possibly has a case here.

All the other times it was things like only certain bananas had a curviness standard, not your regular bog-standard simply labelled "bananas" type of banana.

But things like saying:

"It declared that shortage of water in the body was just a symptom of dehydration."

That's rather explicit, that seems far too bold faced a lie and if they really did say that that is outrageous to say the cause is a symptom. Symptoms are things like blurred vision, reduced mental clarity, change in urine colour, you know, indications of what is actually happening!

Drinking water doesn't help ease dehydration as much as you would think. You need salt along with the water. Plain water by itself could make things even worse for you.

I need to know the whole story on this one.

Except dehydration is separate from low blood-salinity, Hyponatremia. They may appear similar but they are distinct.

Dehydration IS a lack of water, introducing water DOES counter that. HYDRATION. You have to drink and sweat crazy amounts before hypoatremia becomes a problem.

In only 13% of top athletes who run triathlons experience technical Hypoatremia and they are consuming VAST amounts of water in hot climates, over long distances and have a very targeted glucose-intense diet that tends to cut out salt because... well... salt is bad for you, right?

Also Hyponatremia is very unlikely in the public considering how salty our diets our anyway, you can't get away from the high levels of salt in all our foods and the main mode of loss of sodium (the important part of salt) is when water is lost through sweating. How often do you sweat enough to soak your clothes all the way through?

Actually, hyponatremia is a result of correcting volume depletion with water. Volume depletion is a result of losing isotonic fluid. Dehydration is a result of losing hypotonic fluid. Water is about as hypotonic a fluid as there is, so water most definitely corrects dehydration.

Hyponatremia generally only occurs in amateur athletes who don't really have any business attempting the task at hand. Heat conditioning generally results in the secretion of a more dilute sweat which can easily be replaced with water.

So yet again, dumbasses spoil it for everyone.

Hmm, I never heard of "heat conditioning" reducing sodium loss through sweating. Got anything to back that up? Sure it isn't just the athletes subtly adjust their diet for higher sodium? Remember, it's sodium that is important, not the chloride part of salt/sodium-chloride.

Sources would be nice (can't be that hard to collect sweat of different athletes and compare sodium levels)

<link=http://books.google.com/books?id=L4aZIDbmV3oC&pg=PA532&lpg=PA532&dq=heat+conditioning+exercise+physiology&source=bl&ots=WloTo9Jj-R&sig=fun9llvD0zuPbuSKGvJrJsrmPs0&hl=en&ei=AODMTrekNciItwfbtvh9&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false>Essentials of exercise physiology

It's a pretty well-established, accepted principle of physiology. There's a big table on the page I linked to that details the physiolgic changes that take place when people become conditioned to heat stress. Maybe try reading more before you start calling people out on science next time.

I didn't call you out, I simply asked that you provide sources to confirm your claims.

After all, If I believe you how can I possibly pass on that information by saying "oh yeah, some guy on a forum who I don't know, have never met and don't even know his real name said so". It's always great to have first hand information otherwise for any ideas to spread very quickly you have people expecting to believe third hand info.

Sources, quite simply, are nice.

"Maybe try reading more"

Hey, I shouldn't have to search for hours to verify your claim that you could easily point me to where you learned it.

Nonsense. You've berated everyone in this forum, asking for sources, and I don't think I've seen you provide a single one. It took me about 1 1/2 seconds to find this source. I googled "heat conditioning exercise physiology" and it was the very first link. If you had to search for hours, you're doing it wrong.

A truly intellectually curious conversant would've found this out for themselves. You're a sauce troll. You make claims without any knowledge of the subject, and without backing them up, and then demand sources from everyone who, correctly, calls you out when you're incorrect.

You just say what you believe to be true, and then when someone contradicts you, you ask them for a source, saying "it only makes sense." Try taking your own advice, guy.

 

[Treblaine]

Nonsense. You've berated everyone in this forum, asking for sources, and I don't think I've seen you provide a single one. It took me about 1 1/2 seconds to find this source. I googled "heat conditioning exercise physiology" and it was the very first link. If you had to search for hours, you're doing it wrong.

A truly intellectually curious conversant would've found this out for themselves. You're a sauce troll. You make claims without any knowledge of the subject, and without backing them up, and then demand sources from everyone who, correctly, calls you out when you're incorrect.

You just say what you believe to be true, and then when someone contradicts you, you ask them for a source, saying "it only makes sense." Try taking your own advice, guy.

Huh? At the centre of all my arguments is only the factual claim I have made is that water is hydrating...

Do I really need as source to back that up?!!?!?

If you would like specific sources I'll find them for you, just ask.

 

[Vegosiux]

Huh? At the centre of all my arguments is only the factual claim I have made is that water is hydrating...

So is just about every other drink in existence. The EU did not ban the claim, it banned the use of said claim as a sales pitch. Of course, people are going to still jump on the sensationalist anti-EU bandwagon.

Facts? Hah!

 

[Treblaine]

Huh? At the centre of all my arguments is only the factual claim I have made is that water is hydrating...

So is just about every other drink in existence. The EU did not ban the claim, it banned the use of said claim as a sales pitch. Of course, people are going to still jump on the sensationalist anti-EU bandwagon.

Facts? Hah!

Yes, why should anyone not be allowed to use any fact to sell something?

IT IS A FACT! Why is it different in selling?

Surely when it comes to selling things withholding facts is the LAST thing any governmental type body should be doing? Why are they trying to hide scientific truths?

Unless you think there is something wrong with selling things? So wrong it justifies hiding facts from being presented to the public! Isn't this just a petty anti-commerce stance and censorship?

No one should have a monopoly on the facts. The truth is for all. It's hypocrisy to withhold the truth being used to sell beverages, as it is to suppress it anywhere.

"Facts? Hah!"

Seems to be precisely the attitude towards people who are trying to control truth for only their purposes.

"people are going to still jump on the sensationalist anti-EU bandwagon."

Straw man argument, *YAWN* you dismiss this as just prejudice, well sorry but this case - this time - there is no hyperbole, the EU are simply making an anti-business decision. Ooh, but of course the corporations are EEEEEVIL! Fuck the truth, anything that can hurt the organisations that have given us so much great stuff like clothes, services, games, movies, gadgets![/sarc]

 

[Kreett]

This is the greatest scientific discovery since they concluded that medieval plate armor was heavy!

 

[Vegosiux]

Yes, why should anyone not be allowed to use any fact to sell something?

IT IS A FACT! Why is it different in selling?

No, it's not. Water does not prevent dehydration. You can drink a bottle of water and you'll still dehydrate if you go run a marathon afterwards. Half a liter of water isn't even going to last you a day of sitting around and doing nothing.

Also, see above post. Maybe they should start using "You can drink it!" as a sales pitch too, huh?

 

[AngelSephy]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around this. How does water NOT reduce dehydration? I mean, seriously? Did they not pay attention in Science and Health? I just... I don't know what to think anymore. Common sense is dying, and mass retardation is reigning supreme!

Europe has some serious issues. But then again, this is news to me that Congress ruled Pizza as a vegetable...

 

[Vegosiux]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around this. How does water NOT reduce dehydration?

Since when "reduce == prevent"?

 

[AngelSephy]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around this. How does water NOT reduce dehydration?

Since when "reduce == prevent"?

I worded it wrong. Excuse me for making a mistake. :\

 

[Treblaine]

Yes, why should anyone not be allowed to use any fact to sell something?

IT IS A FACT! Why is it different in selling?

No, it's not. Water does not prevent dehydration. You can drink a bottle of water and you'll still dehydrate if you go run a marathon afterwards. Half a liter of water isn't even going to last you a day of sitting around and doing nothing.

Also, see above post. Maybe they should start using "You can drink it!" as a sales pitch too, huh?

WHAT BOLLOCKS! That's JUST THE SAME as saying if you don't eat enough food then you will starve... therefore food has nothing to do with preventing starvation!!!

Actually the claim was (and what I reiterated) that water HELPS PREVENT dehydration by the mode of hydration. Both of which are bloody facts.

 

[Treblaine]

Yes, why should anyone not be allowed to use any fact to sell something?
IT IS A FACT! Why is it different in selling?

For one thing water only lessens dehydration, it doesn't prevent it. Secondly, they were specifically claiming bottled water from their source is better than other types of water, which is completely deceptive. Bottled water is by no means better, and in some cases, like compared to Dutch tap water, even worse, because tap water here has to pass very rigid demands on a chemical and bacteriological scale, and tap water often isn't even checked for chemical pollutants because they blindly trust their source. Most of the time rightly so, but if someone accidently drills into their source they're basically selling contaminated water.

And protecting consumers by forbidding deceptive marketing is a good thing.

The fact they wanted to state was "helps prevent dehydration". That is the fact they were forbidden from using to sell any hydrating beverage.

With ENOUGH water, it will most assuredly prevent dehydration.

This is NOT an argument just for bottled water, their inquiry was on any hydrating source, such as even tap water that is sold can they state this simple fact that it may help prevent dehydration.

[HEADING=2]"And protecting consumers by forbidding deceptive marketing is a good thing."[/HEADING]

Repeatedly established that it is a scientific fact that water helps prevent dehydration...

Yet this is somehow deceptive marketing to use to sell something...

Not "magic cure, any volume" but "helps prevent".

 

[Darkmantle]

WHAT BOLLOCKS! That's JUST THE SAME as saying if you don't eat enough food then you will starve... therefore food has nothing to do with preventing starvation!!!

Well, if you're so convinced, let's turn this into a science experiment. You drink bottled water, and then don't drink anything at all for a full week. If you're not experiencing any symptoms of dehydration by then, you win.

Okay, next time you get an infection, only take your first dose of anti-biotics and then don't take anymore for a week. if your infection comes back, I win.

if you get cancer only go to your first chemo session and don't go for a month, if tthe cancer gets worse, I win.

if you are in severe and constant pain, just out of surgery for example (maybe after getting that cancer removed) only take pain meds for one day. if your pain comes back, I win.


dumb argument is dumb.