EU Bans Claim Water Prevents Dehydration

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Treblaine

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SenseOfTumour said:
This is exactly why we need stronger regulations on newspaper articles, if it wasn't for the continual stream of utter bullshit printed to ridicule everything the EU does, I wouldn't be in the situation where I pretty much end up disregarding all these stories as dumb Daily Mail anti EU nonsense.

Seems there's two sets of opinions and not much in the way of facts.
Terrifying precedent in favour of state censorship of the press on political matters, have you any idea what you are proposing?

Especially in this case when the EU so clearly are in the wrong!

To me it does seem like a bottled water company was trying to fund research so they could claim something over tap water, when that's just not going to be true, however.

If I'm wrong then fair enough, but I sense, even if it's not come thru in the articles, that the EU simply had to fight thru a lot of legal stuff to ensure that they couldn't make bold claims that applied equally to free, clean tap water.
Maybe before you demand laws of censorship you could actually read what the issues was actually about, this ruling is on ALL WATER whether in a bottle, from a tap, from a spring, from a rain-pipe or anywhere... it is forbidden to emphasise its sole nutritive quality!

What the hell else can water do other than prevent dehydration!?!?

Branding such an essential nutrient as water as a "medicine" is something a committed of 21 people could conjour up after 3 years. Any answer to such a simple question you know is not really about the question but protecting their ruling system from scrutiny. They clearly screwed up in their definitions and are to arrogant to admit the rules need to be changed to emphasise the role of nutrition in diseases as distinct from medicines.

The problem is their blanket rule "you cannot advertise food/drinks as preventing diseases" assumes that no foods or nutrients can prevent diseases, even diseases of malnutrition... they treat all foods as if frivolus luxuries.

And you know why people are mad? Because they do NOT have any democratic weight in this. It's all far beyond their representation.
 

newwiseman

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WOW, that is almost as bad as the US policy that only drugs can cure a disease, thus making it illegal to claim oranges cure scurvy...
 

Rblade

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EmperorSubcutaneous said:
Drinking water doesn't help ease dehydration as much as you would think. You need salt along with the water. Plain water by itself could make things even worse for you.

I need to know the whole story on this one.
^exactly, pure H20 doesn't help against dehydration. but who has a water destilation device...
 

Electric Alpaca

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May 2, 2011
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Yassen said:
It seems to be a time of baffling news, in the wake of the US congress labeling Pizza a vegetable,
Yay. This nonsense again.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/did-congress-declare-pizza-as-a-vegetable-not-exactly/2011/11/20/gIQABXgmhN_blog.html

Why are people so quick to jump on the negative side of things because that is the most comfortable morsel of food on the spoon?

Yassen said:
the European Food Standards Authority has made it illegal for advertisers to claim that water can reduce dehydration
And for water:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/the-lay-scientist/2011/nov/18/1?newsfeed=true

Shocking. Placing words in one's mouth springs to mind.

After this post I'm just going to sit back and let the ignorant ride their misinformation all the way to the exaggeration station.
 

Treblaine

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Electric Alpaca said:
Yassen said:
It seems to be a time of baffling news, in the wake of the US congress labeling Pizza a vegetable,
Yay. This nonsense again.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/did-congress-declare-pizza-as-a-vegetable-not-exactly/2011/11/20/gIQABXgmhN_blog.html

Why are people so quick to jump on the negative side of things because that is the most comfortable morsel of food on the spoon?

Yassen said:
the European Food Standards Authority has made it illegal for advertisers to claim that water can reduce dehydration
And for water:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/the-lay-scientist/2011/nov/18/1?newsfeed=true

Shocking. Placing words in one's mouth springs to mind.

After this post I'm just going to sit back and let the ignorant ride their misinformation all the way to the exaggeration station.
"Leaving that aside, there are two major problems with the claim: drinking water doesn't prevent dehydration, and drinking-water doesn't prevent dehydration.

Firstly, "regular consumption" of water doesn't reduce the risk of dehydration any more than eating a pork pie a day reduces the risk of starvation."


How in the love of Dawkins is this a scientific rebuttal?

What an utterly FALSE assertion that consuming water doesn't "reduce risk" or dehydration. it would be going to far to say any amount of water consumption cures dehydration, but it IS TRUE that every drop of hypotonic-to-cyctol water you consume hydrates you more and reduces your chance of becoming dehydrated.

If a person on the brink of starvation ate a pork pie, they'd be less likely to slip into a state to be officially starving.

I know there has been a history of people making barmy and false claims about the EU and many people have made a career or refuting such claims... but really they have to concede this one. The EU have been utterly usleess here whether it is legally binding or not, they took 3 years and an assembly of 21 academics to come up with this tripe?

It casts doubt on everything they have ever concluded. At a time when the EU looks incapable to doing anything right.

This is a political farce up there with Australian government trying to ban "Dihydrogen Monoxide" before someone pointed out that was just a non-standard name for plain old water. If that hadn't been pointed out they were happy to ban it on the factually accurate attributes of water as presented to them, what this did was cast doubt on the ability of the Australian government to ever legislate on dangerous chemicals if it could get that far without them noticing.
 

RuralGamer

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See this is why I have absolutely no faith in the EU and wish my country had never got involved in its tremendous silliness; they are in the process of financial meltdown and they're wasting time and money on trying to determine whether or not bottled water can be marketed as a dehydration solution... *sigh*
 

orangeban

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Firstly: From what I'm reading here it seems like the EU actually made a good call, too tired to check it out.

Secondly: The article is hardly unbiased and it mentions the ol' banana myth.

Thirdly: There should be some kind of British politics drinking game. Take a shot every time a Tory jumps on an oppurtunity to bad-mouth the EU!

Fourthly: Shame on the article for saying "Daftest Brussels edict" rather than "Barmiest Brussels edict" which is so obvious, how could they miss it!?
 

orangeban

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Your Local DJ said:
On a more serious note, why would anyone waste time worrying about irreverent stuff like this when they recently had riots? Don't they have bigger things to worry about?
What? Are you talking about the EU, because they haven't been having riots. Rome has had riots, as well as Greece and Britain, but not the EU. Seeing as how the EU isn't even a country, I don't think it can have riots, in the same way the UN can't have riots.
 

tsb247

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Everyone that I called over to my laptop to read this post did a collective facepalm. I wish I had a camera, but it would not feel right to stage a recreation.

*facepalm*
 

Hero in a half shell

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Dec 30, 2009
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X10J said:
Hmmmmm, I'd like to know... the whole story.
Water. Many of us use this wonderful discovery every day to clean our cars, 'question' terror suspects, sponge bathe invalids, and disperse violent mobs, but what is... the whole story?

Water was first discovered in 1572, by the American painter Joe Batman-Waters. He made the discovery while painting penguins and polar bears in their natural habitat on the Carribean beaches of Normandy, France.
Several of the polar bears had not taken kindly to being painted on (his avant-garde trademark was never using paper, instead he would paint objects onto the objects themselves.) And he was viciously mauled by the huge claws and fierce teeth of the penguins, being left for dead. after laying on the beach for several hours, only able to stare up at the forlorn silhouettes high in the air of the penguins circling his body, waiting for him to die before they feasted on his carcass, Batman-Waters felt something cold and clammy creep up his legs, making him feel wet and shivery. Looking down he saw a sight he had never seen before: Miles and miles of this strange blue soil, lapping at the bottom of his feet, that churned and frothed like beer. Also the Grim Reaper was gripping his legs, but that spectre was chased away by the strange blue soil creeping up the beach.

Batman-Waters was rescued by a kindly passing wolfpack, and taken to live as one of them, learning their ways and regaining his strength until he was strong enough to return to civilisation.
After several years Joe trimphantly returned to the small French coastal village of Paris, where his brand new wolf-fur suit and travelcase caused so much stir that he was invited to dine with the leader of France: the Dalai Lama himself.

The Dalai treated him to several entertaining dog-baiting matches and a traditional French bullfight in the collosseum, and afterwards a meal of curryhaggis, cooked by renowned French chef Dangermouse.

There Batman-Waters regailed his exciting tale to the Dalai Lama and esteemed writer and used car salesman Rudyard Kipling, who was over in Paris on his annual nun-hunt. Kipling was so taken by the tale of the wolves that he adapted it into the famous literature work: Battlefield Earth.
Joe was delighted to have the blue soil like substance named after him, and so news of the discovery of "Batman" was spread worldwide, helped by new technology from the industrial revolution, such as the steam engine, the Panama canal, and of course Twitter.

However, the story does not end there, as several rival inventors were not pleased at the success of "Batman". Top of this menacing cabal: Thomas Edison, Gargamel, Che Guevara, Donny Osmond and featuring Val Kilmer as the voice of K.I.T.T.

They forced the European Union to crack down on the name rights associated with calling the blue soil "Batman", under section 13-C of the Naming Rights Bill (1994) by the Department of Underachieving Names for Government Bodies, and Existing Environments that Lowers Expectations, or DUNGBEETLE. They stated that the name "Batman" was too awesome to be relegated to an inanimate object, and should be reserved for some sort of animal themed superhero, or daytime T.V. presenter. Their argument was upheld by the Honorable Judge Dread, and the motion was passed that the name must be changed by midnight that night, or Joe Batman-Waters clothes would fall off, his horse would turn back into a mouse and he would never meet his prince.

The name of the blue soil was thus changed from Batman to Water, allowing Joe to keep his share of the copyright royalties, and securing his place in history.

And that's... the whole story.
 

Atmos Duality

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Huh.
I know why they did it (it's to prevent all sorts of shit from being classified as "medicine" for just having water in it), and come to think of it, I wouldn't mind someone coming over to the US and slapping some sense into all these idiots who insist on only drinking bottled water.

We have some of the best water on tap in the entire world and we're churning out plastic bottles because...

..."It's trendy."
 

Adultism

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Jan 5, 2011
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orangeban said:
Your Local DJ said:
On a more serious note, why would anyone waste time worrying about irreverent stuff like this when they recently had riots? Don't they have bigger things to worry about?
What? Are you talking about the EU, because they haven't been having riots. Rome has had riots, as well as Greece and Britain, but not the EU. Seeing as how the EU isn't even a country, I don't think it can have riots, in the same way the UN can't have riots.
Oh crap, I got the EU confused with the UK.

Man that just proves that I don't sleep enough
 

X10J

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Hero in a half shell said:
X10J said:
Hmmmmm, I'd like to know... the whole story.
Water. Many of us use this wonderful discovery every day to clean our cars, 'question' terror suspects, sponge bathe invalids, and disperse violent mobs, but what is... the whole story?

Water was first discovered in 1572, by the American painter Joe Batman-Waters. He made the discovery while painting penguins and polar bears in their natural habitat on the Carribean beaches of Normandy, France.
Several of the polar bears had not taken kindly to being painted on (his avant-garde trademark was never using paper, instead he would paint objects onto the objects themselves.) And he was viciously mauled by the huge claws and fierce teeth of the penguins, being left for dead. after laying on the beach for several hours, only able to stare up at the forlorn silhouettes high in the air of the penguins circling his body, waiting for him to die before they feasted on his carcass, Batman-Waters felt something cold and clammy creep up his legs, making him feel wet and shivery. Looking down he saw a sight he had never seen before: Miles and miles of this strange blue soil, lapping at the bottom of his feet, that churned and frothed like beer. Also the Grim Reaper was gripping his legs, but that spectre was chased away by the strange blue soil creeping up the beach.

Batman-Waters was rescued by a kindly passing wolfpack, and taken to live as one of them, learning their ways and regaining his strength until he was strong enough to return to civilisation.
After several years Joe trimphantly returned to the small French coastal village of Paris, where his brand new wolf-fur suit and travelcase caused so much stir that he was invited to dine with the leader of France: the Dalai Lama himself.

The Dalai treated him to several entertaining dog-baiting matches and a traditional French bullfight in the collosseum, and afterwards a meal of curryhaggis, cooked by renowned French chef Dangermouse.

There Batman-Waters regailed his exciting tale to the Dalai Lama and esteemed writer and used car salesman Rudyard Kipling, who was over in Paris on his annual nun-hunt. Kipling was so taken by the tale of the wolves that he adapted it into the famous literature work: Battlefield Earth.
Joe was delighted to have the blue soil like substance named after him, and so news of the discovery of "Batman" was spread worldwide, helped by new technology from the industrial revolution, such as the steam engine, the Panama canal, and of course Twitter.

However, the story does not end there, as several rival inventors were not pleased at the success of "Batman". Top of this menacing cabal: Thomas Edison, Gargamel, Che Guevara, Donny Osmond and featuring Val Kilmer as the voice of K.I.T.T.

They forced the European Union to crack down on the name rights associated with calling the blue soil "Batman", under section 13-C of the Naming Rights Bill (1994) by the Department of Underachieving Names for Government Bodies, and Existing Environments that Lowers Expectations, or DUNGBEETLE. They stated that the name "Batman" was too awesome to be relegated to an inanimate object, and should be reserved for some sort of animal themed superhero, or daytime T.V. presenter. Their argument was upheld by the Honorable Judge Dread, and the motion was passed that the name must be changed by midnight that night, or Joe Batman-Waters clothes would fall off, his horse would turn back into a mouse and he would never meet his prince.

The name of the blue soil was thus changed from Batman to Water, allowing Joe to keep his share of the copyright royalties, and securing his place in history.

And that's... the whole story.
You win the internet.....forever. So there you have it, from the Caribbean to Europe, the tale of water is one of Dalai Lamas and painters, Grim Reapers and Batman. So the next time you think you know all about something, just remember, you may not know...the whole story.
 

PhiMed

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Treblaine said:
PhiMed said:
Treblaine said:
I'm struggling to see how the EU possibly has a case here.

All the other times it was things like only certain bananas had a curviness standard, not your regular bog-standard simply labelled "bananas" type of banana.

But things like saying:

"It declared that shortage of water in the body was just a symptom of dehydration."

That's rather explicit, that seems far too bold faced a lie and if they really did say that that is outrageous to say the cause is a symptom. Symptoms are things like blurred vision, reduced mental clarity, change in urine colour, you know, indications of what is actually happening!

EmperorSubcutaneous said:
Drinking water doesn't help ease dehydration as much as you would think. You need salt along with the water. Plain water by itself could make things even worse for you.

I need to know the whole story on this one.
Except dehydration is separate from low blood-salinity, Hyponatremia. They may appear similar but they are distinct.

Dehydration IS a lack of water, introducing water DOES counter that. HYDRATION. You have to drink and sweat crazy amounts before hypoatremia becomes a problem.

In only 13% of top athletes who run triathlons experience technical Hypoatremia and they are consuming VAST amounts of water in hot climates, over long distances and have a very targeted glucose-intense diet that tends to cut out salt because... well... salt is bad for you, right?

Also Hyponatremia is very unlikely in the public considering how salty our diets our anyway, you can't get away from the high levels of salt in all our foods and the main mode of loss of sodium (the important part of salt) is when water is lost through sweating. How often do you sweat enough to soak your clothes all the way through?
Actually, hyponatremia is a result of correcting volume depletion with water. Volume depletion is a result of losing isotonic fluid. Dehydration is a result of losing hypotonic fluid. Water is about as hypotonic a fluid as there is, so water most definitely corrects dehydration.

Hyponatremia generally only occurs in amateur athletes who don't really have any business attempting the task at hand. Heat conditioning generally results in the secretion of a more dilute sweat which can easily be replaced with water.

So yet again, dumbasses spoil it for everyone.
Hmm, I never heard of "heat conditioning" reducing sodium loss through sweating. Got anything to back that up? Sure it isn't just the athletes subtly adjust their diet for higher sodium? Remember, it's sodium that is important, not the chloride part of salt/sodium-chloride.

Sources would be nice (can't be that hard to collect sweat of different athletes and compare sodium levels)
<link=http://books.google.com/books?id=L4aZIDbmV3oC&pg=PA532&lpg=PA532&dq=heat+conditioning+exercise+physiology&source=bl&ots=WloTo9Jj-R&sig=fun9llvD0zuPbuSKGvJrJsrmPs0&hl=en&ei=AODMTrekNciItwfbtvh9&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false>Essentials of exercise physiology

It's a pretty well-established, accepted principle of physiology. There's a big table on the page I linked to that details the physiolgic changes that take place when people become conditioned to heat stress. Maybe try reading more before you start calling people out on science next time.
 

PhiMed

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Nov 26, 2008
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PhiMed said:
Treblaine said:
PhiMed said:
Treblaine said:
I'm struggling to see how the EU possibly has a case here.

All the other times it was things like only certain bananas had a curviness standard, not your regular bog-standard simply labelled "bananas" type of banana.

But things like saying:

"It declared that shortage of water in the body was just a symptom of dehydration."

That's rather explicit, that seems far too bold faced a lie and if they really did say that that is outrageous to say the cause is a symptom. Symptoms are things like blurred vision, reduced mental clarity, change in urine colour, you know, indications of what is actually happening!

EmperorSubcutaneous said:
Drinking water doesn't help ease dehydration as much as you would think. You need salt along with the water. Plain water by itself could make things even worse for you.

I need to know the whole story on this one.
Except dehydration is separate from low blood-salinity, Hyponatremia. They may appear similar but they are distinct.

Dehydration IS a lack of water, introducing water DOES counter that. HYDRATION. You have to drink and sweat crazy amounts before hypoatremia becomes a problem.

In only 13% of top athletes who run triathlons experience technical Hypoatremia and they are consuming VAST amounts of water in hot climates, over long distances and have a very targeted glucose-intense diet that tends to cut out salt because... well... salt is bad for you, right?

Also Hyponatremia is very unlikely in the public considering how salty our diets our anyway, you can't get away from the high levels of salt in all our foods and the main mode of loss of sodium (the important part of salt) is when water is lost through sweating. How often do you sweat enough to soak your clothes all the way through?
Actually, hyponatremia is a result of correcting volume depletion with water. Volume depletion is a result of losing isotonic fluid. Dehydration is a result of losing hypotonic fluid. Water is about as hypotonic a fluid as there is, so water most definitely corrects dehydration.

Hyponatremia generally only occurs in amateur athletes who don't really have any business attempting the task at hand. Heat conditioning generally results in the secretion of a more dilute sweat which can easily be replaced with water.

So yet again, dumbasses spoil it for everyone.
Hmm, I never heard of "heat conditioning" reducing sodium loss through sweating. Got anything to back that up? Sure it isn't just the athletes subtly adjust their diet for higher sodium? Remember, it's sodium that is important, not the chloride part of salt/sodium-chloride.

Sources would be nice (can't be that hard to collect sweat of different athletes and compare sodium levels)
<link=http://books.google.com/books?id=L4aZIDbmV3oC&pg=PA532&lpg=PA532&dq=heat+conditioning+exercise+physiology&source=bl&ots=WloTo9Jj-R&sig=fun9llvD0zuPbuSKGvJrJsrmPs0&hl=en&ei=AODMTrekNciItwfbtvh9&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false>Essentials of exercise physiology
It's a pretty well-established, accepted principle of physiology. There's a big table on the page I linked to that details the physiolgic changes that take place when people become conditioned to heat stress. Maybe try reading more before you start calling people out on science next time.
 

Treblaine

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Jul 25, 2008
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PhiMed said:
Treblaine said:
PhiMed said:
Treblaine said:
I'm struggling to see how the EU possibly has a case here.

All the other times it was things like only certain bananas had a curviness standard, not your regular bog-standard simply labelled "bananas" type of banana.

But things like saying:

"It declared that shortage of water in the body was just a symptom of dehydration."

That's rather explicit, that seems far too bold faced a lie and if they really did say that that is outrageous to say the cause is a symptom. Symptoms are things like blurred vision, reduced mental clarity, change in urine colour, you know, indications of what is actually happening!

EmperorSubcutaneous said:
Drinking water doesn't help ease dehydration as much as you would think. You need salt along with the water. Plain water by itself could make things even worse for you.

I need to know the whole story on this one.
Except dehydration is separate from low blood-salinity, Hyponatremia. They may appear similar but they are distinct.

Dehydration IS a lack of water, introducing water DOES counter that. HYDRATION. You have to drink and sweat crazy amounts before hypoatremia becomes a problem.

In only 13% of top athletes who run triathlons experience technical Hypoatremia and they are consuming VAST amounts of water in hot climates, over long distances and have a very targeted glucose-intense diet that tends to cut out salt because... well... salt is bad for you, right?

Also Hyponatremia is very unlikely in the public considering how salty our diets our anyway, you can't get away from the high levels of salt in all our foods and the main mode of loss of sodium (the important part of salt) is when water is lost through sweating. How often do you sweat enough to soak your clothes all the way through?
Actually, hyponatremia is a result of correcting volume depletion with water. Volume depletion is a result of losing isotonic fluid. Dehydration is a result of losing hypotonic fluid. Water is about as hypotonic a fluid as there is, so water most definitely corrects dehydration.

Hyponatremia generally only occurs in amateur athletes who don't really have any business attempting the task at hand. Heat conditioning generally results in the secretion of a more dilute sweat which can easily be replaced with water.

So yet again, dumbasses spoil it for everyone.
Hmm, I never heard of "heat conditioning" reducing sodium loss through sweating. Got anything to back that up? Sure it isn't just the athletes subtly adjust their diet for higher sodium? Remember, it's sodium that is important, not the chloride part of salt/sodium-chloride.

Sources would be nice (can't be that hard to collect sweat of different athletes and compare sodium levels)
<link=http://books.google.com/books?id=L4aZIDbmV3oC&pg=PA532&lpg=PA532&dq=heat+conditioning+exercise+physiology&source=bl&ots=WloTo9Jj-R&sig=fun9llvD0zuPbuSKGvJrJsrmPs0&hl=en&ei=AODMTrekNciItwfbtvh9&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false>Essentials of exercise physiology

It's a pretty well-established, accepted principle of physiology. There's a big table on the page I linked to that details the physiolgic changes that take place when people become conditioned to heat stress. Maybe try reading more before you start calling people out on science next time.
I didn't call you out, I simply asked that you provide sources to confirm your claims.

After all, If I believe you how can I possibly pass on that information by saying "oh yeah, some guy on a forum who I don't know, have never met and don't even know his real name said so". It's always great to have first hand information otherwise for any ideas to spread very quickly you have people expecting to believe third hand info.

Sources, quite simply, are nice.

"Maybe try reading more"

Hey, I shouldn't have to search for hours to verify your claim that you could easily point me to where you learned it.
 

Dr_Pie

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Aug 11, 2009
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Yassen said:
The decision was being hailed as the daftest Brussels edict since the EU sent down laws on how bendy bananas should be.
Well, seeing how this is a well-known joke, and nothing like this was ever brought up in Brussels, I'm going to discredit this entire article.

If the reporter mentions such a notorious prank and believes it as fact, I'm not gonna pay much attention to what they say.
 

Crazy

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Oct 4, 2011
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If you sweat and only drink water, then you'll cause a hypotonic solution, which will eventually make some of your cells burst. Can't have that.

That's all I can think of.
 

galdon2004

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Honestly.. I kind of agree in a way. Claiming your bottled water fights dehydration is about equal to claiming your brand of cereal is asbestos free. Both technically true; but completely irrelevant.