Ever wanted to see a game fail. :P

[T'Generalissimo]

Assassin's Creed 2 made me want the Assassin's Creed franchise to fail, but I really don't imagine that happening any time soon.

 

[Blunderboy]

Let me get this out of the way, in the end we're all horrible people to some degree. As much as we may want to support something we love, we can also want to see something spiral down to utter failure and disgrace so we can dance around it like island savages in glory. Or to put it simply, we can also hate.

Anyways, I hate Lara Craft. I hate everything she represents. I mean... when they created her, the developers pretty much thought "You know how Indiana Jones would have been more baddass? If he was a she and had stonking great tits and 90s "fuck the world in a nonchalant way" attitude. Yeah wouldn't that be better.

Well, the new Lara Croft is obviously the game I'm rooting to fail in misery, and the only thing that's stopping my bitterness from driving me mad and turning me towards voodoo and looking up black magic and curses on google search is the undeniable fact that if the game did fail as miserably as I wanted, a whole lot of people would probably be getting canned because of it.

But still, if there was some magical way that wouldn't happen... Lara Croft would still be my candidate.

Anyways, enough with my rant, what's yours?

lol

Wait, so now they've fixed what seems to be your most glaring issue with the character, you want them to fail?
I don't get that.

 

[Lucky Godzilla]

No. Because peoples families, homes and livelyhoods are at stake.

Hoping something fails just because publishers are unwilling to take risks is a horrific thing to wish because you're essentially wishing for people to lose their jobs and be unable to support themselves or their family.

This.
I'm not petty enough to wish for a particular game to fail just because I don't like it. Peoples livelihood depend on the sales of these games. True I wish some games sold better, but I have never wished for a game to sell less.

 

[TheDoctor455]

Let's see... I'd love Madden to flop so badly that no one ever buys sports games again...

I'd also like to see Halo actually die. It looked like it had ended for a while, but lo and behold, that was fat lie.

 

[TehCookie]

I shouldn#t have brought up the Strong Independent Women thing without establishing if you'd seen the videos first because it's said with a touch of sarcasm which needs to be understood. Now I'm in an awkward position, if you have time this video
http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/team-nchick/nostalgia-chick/36358-charlies-angels
Contains the words Mary Sue and Strong Independent Women within the first minute and a half and since the Charlie's Angels in the film are pretty much identical to Croft it makes my case basically better than I could. But I know that time is valuable thing and I'm not going to put expectations on you for watching it. (If you like video reviews of stuff though, her videos are good in general. I normally find her hugely feminist ones like this the least entertaining which probably says horrible things about me as a guy)

But I'm just going to give you the thing about the developer. That guy is a complete idiot and is just as bad if not worse than the first developers making a sex object. At best it's exactly the same thing for different tastes. I'm basically hoping since Rhianna Pratchett is the writer and not him that he's just really bad at PR and doesn't understand what he's saying. There's no way Ms. Pratchett was brought up too write the kind of vile he was spouting.

But I'm surprised you didn't see personality in the trailers or that you were put off by the fact she's not superconfident. Someone who does stuff because they aren't afraid of doing it isn't particularly interesting (because there's no tension, what they're doing isn't a challenge) and isn't particularly heroic because they aren't overcoming any obstacles or sacrificing anything for a cause, or forcing themselves to face their fears. The reason Indiana Jones works and Nathan Drake works is that they're both scared and fumbling a lot of the time instead of being perfect heroes.

I'm also a little confused about your Jones comment? Isn't that saying she'S a fundamentally sucky character? And since the remake isn't copying Jones at all she has a chance of being less sucky. It doesn't make her more entertaining or interesting to know there was a reason she was sucky and it was because of a bad design choice at the start

Well one of the issues with Mary Sue's and strong independant women is the fact there's not a set definition so it varies from person to person and move on since that is a whole different can of worms.

I saw the personality in the trailer, it was the latter. The tension doesn't come from the story, it comes from the gameplay and trying to beat it without dieing. You don't feel what the character is feeling, the character feels what you're feeling. My memory is fuzzy but games were a lot less cinematic back then, most of the time the plot was just a reason for you to be doing stuff.

As for the Jones comment, yes it is and the newer one is also true. We established Lara has no character right? Well then what about the new one? If she has a character then she shouldn't be Lara anymore. Even worse you get to see a character lose her personality at the end of the game if they want it to be in the timeline (I don't know if it's a prequel or reboot or if the devs are indecisive and don't care).

Though if I didn't ignore all the other Tomb Raiders that came out I'd probably be okay with the new IP. I just liked the 90's Lara for being a 90's relic. There's one topic of can you compare old games to modern ones and I think not. Critiquing Lara is like critiquing Mario's rescue the princess story, it's crap but it works.

 

[BrotherRool]

Well one of the issues with Mary Sue's and strong independant women is the fact there's not a set definition so it varies from person to person and move on since that is a whole different can of worms.

I saw the personality in the trailer, it was the latter. The tension doesn't come from the story, it comes from the gameplay and trying to beat it without dieing. You don't feel what the character is feeling, the character feels what you're feeling. My memory is fuzzy but games were a lot less cinematic back then, most of the time the plot was just a reason for you to be doing stuff.

As for the Jones comment, yes it is and the newer one is also true. We established Lara has no character right? Well then what about the new one? If she has a character then she shouldn't be Lara anymore. Even worse you get to see a character lose her personality at the end of the game if they want it to be in the timeline (I don't know if it's a prequel or reboot or if the devs are indecisive and don't care).

Though if I didn't ignore all the other Tomb Raiders that came out I'd probably be okay with the new IP. I just liked the 90's Lara for being a 90's relic. There's one topic of can you compare old games to modern ones and I think not. Critiquing Lara is like critiquing Mario's rescue the princess story, it's crap but it works.

You didn't even play the games! You weren't interested in them yourself. Mario has a reason for being flat, it's part of light family friendly non-serious tone. Lara Croft doesn't have that and isn't aiming for any of those things.

I'm not sure what I can say to an argument of 'It's meant to be crud. Making it non crud is untrue to the original games (which you weren't even personally enough of a fan to play). At least by making a non-crud Lara they've got you talking about Tomb Raider again =D

 

[TehCookie]

Well one of the issues with Mary Sue's and strong independant women is the fact there's not a set definition so it varies from person to person and move on since that is a whole different can of worms.

I saw the personality in the trailer, it was the latter. The tension doesn't come from the story, it comes from the gameplay and trying to beat it without dieing. You don't feel what the character is feeling, the character feels what you're feeling. My memory is fuzzy but games were a lot less cinematic back then, most of the time the plot was just a reason for you to be doing stuff.

As for the Jones comment, yes it is and the newer one is also true. We established Lara has no character right? Well then what about the new one? If she has a character then she shouldn't be Lara anymore. Even worse you get to see a character lose her personality at the end of the game if they want it to be in the timeline (I don't know if it's a prequel or reboot or if the devs are indecisive and don't care).

Though if I didn't ignore all the other Tomb Raiders that came out I'd probably be okay with the new IP. I just liked the 90's Lara for being a 90's relic. There's one topic of can you compare old games to modern ones and I think not. Critiquing Lara is like critiquing Mario's rescue the princess story, it's crap but it works.

You didn't even play the games! You weren't interested in them yourself. Mario has a reason for being flat, it's part of light family friendly non-serious tone. Lara Croft doesn't have that and isn't aiming for any of those things.

I'm not sure what I can say to an argument of 'It's meant to be crud. Making it non crud is untrue to the original games (which you weren't even personally enough of a fan to play). At least by making a non-crud Lara they've got you talking about Tomb Raider again =D

I posted that picture because of Dante in it, Lara was just a bonus but she seemed to be the character you wanted to focus on. I told you I haven't played the games since I was 6, but I have a general disdain for all reboots.

 

[Quaidis]

I... Don't think I've ever wanted a game to fail. I've been angry by developer decisions in the past, but found that I look forward to a game being awesome and enjoying it a full extent than hoping that something a full office of employees grinds on for a year bombs horribly. That's not to say I'm innocent by any stretch, I have wanted movie scripts to fail.

Anyway, the point I'm getting at is that it's real stupid to hope a game bombs, and expect it to be bad, before it even comes out.

... ResiEvil5 on the other hand........


=P j/k

 

[monkey_man]

Why would you want a game to fail, when it could also surprise the socks off you?
I mean, there are games I deem to be shit, but that doesn't equal fail.
Who do you think you are, with your opinions and stuff!

Nah, I can't say there's been one game I wanted to fail. (For the record, Call of Duty was never going to be on the list of being good anyway, and you can't expect something to fail when it's already dead.)

 

[Woodsey]

Every time I see Call of Duty's said to be failing, my heart skips a beat. Then I read it's "failing" because it's "only" made a billion green-backs in 2 weeks.

But if the new Hitman fails (which I get the feeling it hasn't), I'll dance on its fucking grave. Horrendous piece of crap.

 

[crazyrabbits]

No. Because peoples families, homes and livelyhoods are at stake.

Hoping something fails just because publishers are unwilling to take risks is a horrific thing to wish because you're essentially wishing for people to lose their jobs and be unable to support themselves or their family.

That's a lackluster argument. By that logic, any piece of entertainment in any medium should not be allowed to fail if it potentially causes the firing of one or more employees with jobs/family/etc.

I don't fret over what happens to the below-line members on a film set if it's being directed by an amateur and no care is given to the story or acting. I don't worry when a book doesn't sell enough copies, putting its publishing house out of business. These are market economics, and these instances can and do happen all the time.

The video game industry is just as, if not moreso, volatile than any other industry. Look at Zynga - employees being pushed to the bone, working overtime hours and not seeing family for weeks, being told that they're doing revolutionary work, and yet they're on a pay-to-win model that could fall out from underneath them at any time (and already has, in fact). Big-name publishers have high employee turnover, terrible work environments (in several recent cases - EA spouses / Infinity Ward staff) and the chance of creating a multi-million selling video game is the exception to the rule.

As to your point, there's nothing wrong with taking risks, but the current "every game must be triple-AAA!" climate and erratic grasping of straws at trends in the gaming industry has created a volatile and hazardous work climate. It's not conducive to good ethics or business/employee practices.

 

[bigbearboy144]

Dust 514. It's such a shocking game to play, and I hope it's a massive flop, as it's a pay-to-win and nothing is ever worth the effort it takes to buy something. It's a game which relinquishes the stage to EVE online; it's a PR stunt.

 

[Username Redacted]

For me, it's BlazBlue: Chrono Phantasma...

...is what I would say if I were huffing massive amounts of paint.

I don't want BB:CP to fail either though it wouldn't hurt if ASW got their head out of their ass and actually released games in a more timely fashion outside of Japan.

That said I also don't wish failure on the CoD or Battlefield games. At this point I accept that those games are essentially the Madden Football games of modern military shooters and that a yearly update will come out like clockwork. I accept this. I suspect that a lot of people would be a lot less angry if they accepted this as well. What I am less accepting of and what ties this all together with the theme of this thread is that I wish failure on games that look to take the shortcut to success by trying to ape the design of CoD or Battlefield. Here's the thing, you're not going to make a better Call of Duty than those who make Call of Duty. You don't have the money, experience or brand recognition. All you're going to do is succeed in making a shitty CoD clone. Look it's totally possible to make a fun (arguable), excellent (not arguable) modern military shooter as Spec Ops: The Line proves. What you're not going to do is beat CoD at their own retarded game so please developers stop trying.

 

[BrotherRool]

I posted that picture because of Dante in it, Lara was just a bonus but she seemed to be the character you wanted to focus on. I told you I haven't played the games since I was 6, but I have a general disdain for all reboots.

Sorry! I'm not going to hate on Dante till the game comes out, but Dante had a legitimate interesting character and there's a lot more to lose there =D Croft has a lot more room for improvement

 

[crazyrabbits]

I didn't ask for your opinion on my opinion, as such I didn't read what you had to say.

...okay? You're on a message board - most of the responses are conversations or arguments. I'd advise you to calm down.

What the hell are you talking about? I said I think it's a terrible thing to WISH that a game would fail, not that it should be forbidden, jesus christ man.

You started your post with, in response to the OP, "No. Because peoples families, homes and livelihoods are at stake." Can't get any more clear-cut than that. Trying to backtrack and say, "No, I only said afterwards that I think it's a terrible thing to wish for such a thing" is beside the point.

So what you're saying is that you openly wish for people to lose their jobs, have their children starve and be miserable, potentially lose their home, all because of other peoples incompetence despite how hard they work? "Because that's the way things are"?

No. I'm saying that, in any industry, layoffs as the result of underperforming and lackluster products are to be expected. That goes doubly so for the gaming industry, as the result of the factors I just mentioned. You seem to have this... I want to say "romantic view" that employees come above all else, and to an extent, that's true. Yet, at the end of the day, there are plenty of projects that fail (or franchises that crash and burn) due to mismanagement at the top level.

I hate to say it, but it doesn't really matter how hard someone works if it's on something set up with too high expectations, mismanagement at the top and no clear direction of where it's going, much like many of the examples in this topic.

You seem to think that just because these people are working on a video game that they are willingly taking the risks that come with it

Well... yeah. The recent history of the gaming sector would prove me right. Employees taking absurd paycuts, schedule shifts and long hours, while being browbeaten by upper-middle management types who got where they were due to nepotism/backstabbing/office politics/etc. That's the norm nowadays, and is pretty much prevalent at every major video game publisher you can think. It's nice that you're looking at this through rose-colored glasses, but you are sorely mistaken.

People losing their jobs because of poor management, poor marketing or simply a poor/overdone game idea is a horrible thing because IT'S NOT THEIR FAULT.

Hindsight is 20/20. I wouldn't get involved with a publisher where my job security isn't guaranteed, and I could be laid off at any time for little reason (see the recent cases of companies cutting employees just before Christmas), where I'm made to feel belittled, marginalized and disregarded because of the management, and/or where I'm working on a project that has too high expectations and too little thought put into it.

You disregarded the points I made (regarding your first statement) and went on some tangent about how you feel disrespected instead.

I think you're a despicable person.

I think I'll just report you for flaming. This discussion serves no further purpose. Goodbye.

 

[Rose and Thorn]

I guess Bioware games, so that they stop doing stupid DLC buisness.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

To rephrase my earlier post so as not to come across as so aloof and stuck up and high and mighty and whatever; no I've never really wanted a game to fail because I try not to dwell on games I don't like for any reason.

 

[Rooster893]

Nope. I'm not petty enough to want to see a game fail just because I don't like it. Rather than wishing it would fail I just ignore it.

I second this notion.

 

[Nomanslander]

Wait, so now they've fixed what seems to be your most glaring issue with the character, you want them to fail?
I don't get that.

I think there's a difference between secretly wanting to see a game fail, and out right demanding that it should. It's like when you have a harsh argument with a friend, then out of anger imagine a meteor falling and crashing into his/her head, of course if that really did happen you'd resent in horror ever thinking it and the tragedy would scar you for life.

As for Lara Croft, even though the 90s asshole=cool attitude is completely gone, I don't even know if I like the new character either. She seems like she's going to spend 90% of the game with that deer in the headlights look on her face, and I've heard this is suppose to be more of a character study of how a young naive girl become the ruthless cold blooded likes of the Lara Croft we know. As interesting as all that sounds, I still generally don't like her.

No, I don't wish the game fails. But then again I wouldn't mind seeing the series just go away. I mean, why does this even have to be Lara Croft? I don't buy the origins story really, and I'd rather just see a new character than this.

That's just what me thinks.

=/

 

[WFox]

Only in a kidding sort of way to satisfy my selfish whims. I don't actually want them to fail because it's peoples jobs on the line and they need to support their families.

I wanted WoW to fail at launch so we'd get a proper Warcraft 4...
I wanted SWTOR to fail as we get a proper KOTOR 3...
I want the Skyrim MMO to fail so they rework the franchise and give us a better non-MMO Elder scrolls...

Franchises that I loved keep turning into grind heavy MMO's.

I don't care about Warcraft, but I'm with you on SWTOR and the Elder Scrolls MMO.
I hate how people seem to want every successful single player RPG to get multiplayer or be turned into an MMO these days.

The Old Republic was the worst because it pretty much killed any chance of there ever being a KOTOR3. I didn't want it to be successful because then they'd just release expansions and never go back to KOTOR, but since they sunk so much money into the damn thing it failing would likely mean they'd never go back to KOTOR either.


And the TES MMO looks terrible.