Evidence for evolution

[Crazy_Dude]

So I got into an argument with my dad today. He says that there is way more evidence for intelligent design than for evolution, and that evolution is "just a theory" and has "minimal evidence"

Sorry but if you simply deny the evidence for evolution and claim Intelligent Design has more proof I simply think you are an idiot.

I wish you good luck with a father and let's hope you can change his views. Cause I wouldn't last a day with him.

 

[Da Orky Man]

So I got into an argument with my dad today. He says that there is way more evidence for intelligent design than for evolution, and that evolution is "just a theory" and has "minimal evidence"

Tell them that in science "theory" means something else than it means in CSI and that in science, a "theory" isn't a "wild guess" and that it most definitely is not "just a".

If they still resist direct them to an armed nuke IN SPACE! and tell them to sit on it while you hit the trigger. After all, it's "just" the atomic "theory" behind it.

So what does an idea have to do to be labelled a theory? I need it to be put so he can understand that there is evidence behind it. He thinks that its just wild speculation being taught in schools

It has to be labelled a theory because science knows it's almost never right. We thought We had cracked it with Relativity. Then FTL neutrinos come along.

And then they were disproved about a week later. Seriously, neutrinos are cool and all, but they didn't really go faster than light. It was a mess-up involving them not accounting for the Earth's rotation, which is also pretty damn cool, but they didn't.

Even after they had accounted for it, they still went faster.

http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1109/1109.4897.pdf

That link is to the paper they submitted about it. If you read over it, they later accounted for the Earths spin. That increased the error bars somewhat, but not enough. Other labs are now doing the same experiment.

 

[Robert Ewing]

Evolution isn't a theory, it's a fact actually.

And most evolutionists will show non-believers ants. Ants are incredibly diverse, and have CLEARLY evolved to meet the demands of their surroundings. You will need a bit of research, but it shouldn't be hard.

Insects are the easiest way to show how evolution works. Mammals are a bit harder to do, because they evolve for completely different reasons and circumstances. I.e, who mates with who first.

Reptiles are a good way as well, although because of their fantastical and alienish nature, it may be harder to shake off the feeling that they were intelligently designed.

 

[KnowYourOnion]

So I got into an argument with my dad today. He says that there is way more evidence for intelligent design than for evolution, and that evolution is "just a theory" and has "minimal evidence"
I tried explaining to him, about fossils and genetics but he wouldn't listen

So escapees, most convincing evidence for evolution?

PS: I also tried "Every noteworthy scientist believes in evolution" he just said, no.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_human_evolution

The species in the list have been found and provide the evidence for evolution.

Ask your dad this question as well "if creatures were the product of intelligent design why do they have vestigial organs and limbs? Surely if we were designed every part of our body would be equally useful?"

 

[Roggen Bread]

I actually stopped being THAT sure of evolution after studying Biomedical Engineering for 2 years (I still do - like I still delight in the irony).

It's just the way how well everything works. How perfectly executed the design of just a cell is.

I do not believe at all that some dude with a kickass beard took some soil and belched on it, but I like to think, that something at least, like a simple cell was created by the oldest (and smartest!) engineer ever.

Evolution happened for sure. But I have a hard time believing, that some molecules in a watery solution just aligned by accident and everything worked just like that.

Note: I also do believe in the big bang and stuff. It appears to be logic to me.

 

[Deacon Cole]

Your father is ignorant. Anyone who says that evolution is "just a theory" demonstrates how little they understand about science and what it means to be called a theory.


I think you're up against a wall. You'll never get through to him because, and this is not going to be very popular, creationists lie. They have to otherwise they wouldn't be creationists anymore.


So you aren't going to get anywhere with your father. I'm sorry about that but he doesn't behave rationally. He has faith. Faith means that you say, "I don't care what you say or what the evidence shows, I cannot possibly be wrong." Faith is the ultimate act of pride. Getting through this to get people off of their high horse is difficult enough with strangers, much less close relatives. You're probably better off being the better man and just not bothering to discuss it.

But then, you could also tell him that so-called "intelligent" design and evolution do not conflict with each other, really. In the movie Flock of Dodos, Michael Behe, the biggest support of ID, said that he does believe in evolution. He just thinks that it required an intelligence guiding it or something. (Or pretends he does since he makes money selling this snake oil)

 

[chronicfc]

"just a theory" and has "minimal evidence"
I tried explaining to him, about fossils and genetics but he wouldn't listen

Try the "gravity is just a theory" or the "existence of others is just a theory" and that he can't prove that he exists as anything other than a figment of your imagination, and that there are many accepted facts that are "just theories".

There is also the solid "Creationism is just a theory, but the difference is your theory is in a book that is 2,000 years old, and that book stole from books even older than itself, and your book is accepted as fact by multiple idiots, like Glenn Beck, and Darwins theory is accepted by smart people, like every intellect in the world"

also show him this video

 

[thraza]

if you want to figure out how to argue with a creationist check out zaunstar video (there mostly for creationist on the internet but most still applys to conversations in real life

 

[michael87cn]

So I got into an argument with my dad today. He says that there is way more evidence for intelligent design than for evolution, and that evolution is "just a theory" and has "minimal evidence"
I tried explaining to him, about fossils and genetics but he wouldn't listen

So escapees, most convincing evidence for evolution?

PS: I also tried "Every noteworthy scientist believes in evolution" he just said, no.

I agree with your dad personally. I mean, if everything just randomly evolved, why is everything but humanity so perfect? We're supposedly more intelligent too. It all simply fits with Biblical records much more than man-devised theories.

Religion is bad, but the Bible isn't in my opinion. Many people don't seem to understand that you can believe in God in different ways than assembling in a building and believing what every random guy teaches.

That also said, I simply don't trust people enough to believe that they know the truth. I don't believe in the 'potential for humanity' to be superior to everything else, much to disagree with Gene Roddenberry (might have spelled his name wrong lol). People are flawed, egotistical beings that have to explain away everything and prove to themselves that they are the masters of whatever they wish. But time and time again... we learn how wrong we are and that we are NOT superior and that we do NOT have everything correct or explained. Decade after decade passes and what was 'fact' becomes 'fiction'. We have no more 'figured out' anything than our ancestors have, comparing the years 1012 to 2012. We are just as much in the dark as they. But much like they we think we are 'modern' 'civilized' and most sadly 'superior'. The truth is we are not.

Science simply put, is just another religion that many subscribe to because it's the popular thing to do, not to mention the publicized thing taught in schools. There is a better way out there to live ones life than to say "Man is its own god".

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

So I got into an argument with my dad today. He says that there is way more evidence for intelligent design than for evolution, and that evolution is "just a theory" and has "minimal evidence"
I tried explaining to him, about fossils and genetics but he wouldn't listen

So escapees, most convincing evidence for evolution?

PS: I also tried "Every noteworthy scientist believes in evolution" he just said, no.

.....what? I hope I'm not being rude when I ask you this but, are you protestant? I didn't think that people still believe in that, because last I checked Catholicism has declared that evolution is real [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_evolution#Pope_Benedict_XVI_and_today]

 

[thraza]

http://www.youtube.com/user/Zaunstar?blend=1&ob=video-mustangbase#p/u/107/S3Ip_vNt8sc
link to zaunstar video (forgot it in original post

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

Science simply put, is just another religion that many subscribe to because it's the popular thing to do, not to mention the publicized thing taught in schools. There is a better way out there to live ones life than to say "Man is its own god".

I think my brain just exploded. And then imploded.

Science is NOT a religion.

See here the main difference between science and religion.

The thing about religions is they are mortal. A thousand religions have come and died in the history of mankind, and so will yours. Science, by which i mean drawing conclusions from observation evidence and logic, has been around as long as man has reasoned. It is older than the oldest living religion and it isnt going anywhere. Because even if the entire world believes a crazy purple lampshade is the reason electricity works SOMEONE will ask "why", seems to me to be electrons. And THAT. Is science. Question EVERYTHING. Ask why, demand to see evidence. Do things breath? Require oxygen? How, look inside, test never take an answer without asking WHY or knowing or testing it.

Faith is thinking you know something without any proof by definition

Science is thinking something BECAUSE of proof by definition.

Science is the gateway to understanding and unwrapping our entire universe and why everything moves the way it does. If you argue all science is a lie then jump out your window, developed by guesswork, and land using gravity, developed by notscience apparently.

Science is NOT a religion because it requires NO faith. No suspencion of disbelief. Science will NEVER ask you to believe at all. Science asks you to look with your EYES at the test and say what you can see, then do it yourself and see if you can see the same thing. Religion is telling you the test shows god and to shut up and sit down.

Science is saying the wall to be left is white. Which it is. Because i just looked.

Religion asks me to believe a wall 2000 miles away is orange and purple. Which i dont know. Because no ones looked.

The bible has NO evidence. At all. Tell me WHAT fits with the bible exactly? The bit where all dinosaurs are lies, all cavemen are lies, all cave drawings are lies, the bit where the world is apparently only 3000 years old? These are all wrong. And yet the bible says them. My theory of evolution allows for them all perfectly, and i have fossels, DNA tracing, observation, tests on microbes, MRSA, finches, bone records, biological testing on mutation and genetics.

You have a book and a shit tonne of people desperately hunting for evidence for it.

I have a shit tonne of people gathering evidence and trying to decide what it means.

I think i know which one makes the most sense.

Citing the bible as evidence for anything is shakey because of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB3g6mXLEKk

I mean as a moral compass, its a tad shakey, citing for the explanation of real world phenomina? Its so contradictory its impossible.

Religion has nothing to do with evolution anyway. Science isnt a religion, nor is evolution. Its just an observation. The bible can be teaching a good story without being a creationist.

 

[Nudu]

Well, natural selection is almost self-evident. Does he believe that offspring have traits similar to their parents? Does he believe that dead animals can't have children? There you go. As for evolution, I think among the more compelling evidence is to look at genes and see that they fold out pretty neatly in a family tree with animals closer to each other (such as chimpanzees and humans, horses and donkeys or lions and tigers) having a more similar DNA sequence than for example dolphins and scorpions.

I also wonder whether he understands evolution. If he was introduced to the concept by some religious authority with an agenda he may think of evolution as a duck evolving into a crocodile in tree generations with a crocoduck inbetween.

 

[Muspelheim]

Indeed, science is not a religion. It is not a spiritual institution, it's simply a way through which facts are collected, studied and the conclusions drawn thereof, before submitting them to be scrutinized and analyzed by other scientists. People don't gather together on a particular weekday to sing praise for Darwin or Einstein or other held in great reguard. There is no ancient texts containing any rules by which to live, filled with old tales that the reader is demanded to reguard as absolute truths.

It's actually rather telling that certain people wish for science, the accumulated knowledge thereof and the scientific method, to be downgraded into a religion...

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

You know, I remember some thread that someone mentioned "Escapist members are more open-minded and accepting then other communities". Man, was that utterly wrong. At least in this thread.

Ive discussed this topic quite a darn bit with a friend who heavily studies evolutionary theory. And the multiple times of 3+ hours that we have discussed this, neither of us have come to believe the other.

The only reason I can put out for that is whats been said a few times in this thread. Both are on shaky ground on being expressly PROVEN scientifically(And depending on what side your on, one more than the other).

Ive also learned not to even try to discuss this issue with anyone other than close friends(FYI here, I am a believer in Creationism), especially with most of the people in this thread, because they have the mentality of "if you don't believe, your an ignorant, stupid, bone headed, idiot human being because you don't believe the theory that I believe". And don't try to get me about the 'theory' part, because when it boils down to it, it is a theory (even in Psychology, which is what I heavily study), not expressly proven(Who has looked over the earth the last 2 billion years(using science's time here, which I dont have a problem with, nor believe)and seen all this in person? Come forward an ill change my views).

So, anyone who believes in evolution, great, im glad you believe in something, even though I dont believe in it. I may have problems with it, but I dont have problems with you. If you believe in Creationism, great, I do to.

I don't believe in evolution. I accept it as fact.

 

[Burs]

There was an interesting mass experiment in the UK where we had to count how many common snails we found, where we found them and how many stripes they had on their shells, the results proved that the common snail species had a specialised shell pattern for the immediate area where they where in and was in effect Evolution in action ^.^

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Well look Evolution is a theory but does not mean it isn't true. It isn't absolute fact as in Evolution is this completely unchanging thing and we have it 100% correct as we are still learning some of the ins and outs of it but we have a general idea. That is what a scientific fact is.

We take evolution as true until we find something better that proves it wrong but sometimes scientists do get in the way of scientific progress by trying to hold on to out dated and antiquated theories. Although this only happens if there is something that seems wild and out there but they do come to be accepted in time. Although that is not an issue with evolution.

Also I think if Catholicism accepts Evolution(granted not the same as Scientific Evolution) I think your Dad can.