Evidence for evolution

[spartan231490]

Religion is not based in logic, so you can't use logic when arguing with a religious person =/

uh, not sure if being funny, or if i should feel insulted.

Uh, neither? Religion isn't based in logic, so that's correct, no joke hidden there. And about it being insulting...well, I really don't see how that is insulting, you can't bring up logic in a discussion with a religious person about religion seeing as their religion defies logic. They will just ignore it, in fact, thats what always happens.

Religion doesn't defy logic. Fundamentalists often twist religion to defy logic, but that isn't how religion is supposed to be. Religion exists outside the purview of logic. It is about having faith in times when logic doesn't have an answer.

 

[Snoozer]

Since when is there any proof for inteligent design?
The most ironic thing is that nature itself is cruel. All life dies in the most horrible ways on it's everyday struggle to survive. Who would create something like that?

 

[Burst6]

Religion doesn't defy logic. Fundamentalists often twist religion to defy logic, but that isn't how religion is supposed to be. Religion exists outside the purview of logic. It is about having faith in times when logic doesn't have an answer.

Are you saying that Religion is there to tide us over until we find out what's actually happening?

 

[spartan231490]

Religion doesn't defy logic. Fundamentalists often twist religion to defy logic, but that isn't how religion is supposed to be. Religion exists outside the purview of logic. It is about having faith in times when logic doesn't have an answer.

Are you saying that Religion is there to tide us over until we find out what's actually happening?

I'm saying that religion is there to explain things that science doesn't know. And in many cases, never will know, unless you think someone's going to invent a soul-meter. Or a heaven detector. Although, as all of us will eventually find out(when we die) then I guess you could think of it that way.

 

[n00beffect]

Oh, I believe it's too late for your dad, my good friend. I am unaware of his age, but I hardly think it matters, judging by your conversation. He's already in that close-minded, cannot-be-persuaded state of mind, in which many creationists of the earlier generations find themselves. No amount of emperical evidence and logic, can disentangle them from this web of willful ignorance and self-deceit. It is unfortunate, yet I would advise you to not bother, and just live and let be.

Of course, if that does not satisfy you (as I suppose it wouldn't), you could always ask him to acompany you to your local Natural History Museum. If he were to refuse, then you could always counter him with the 'You've got nothing to lose', or it's Scottish counterpart 'Only a true man can wear a skirt!(kilt)' argument, which is basically telling him, that if he truly believes in what he believes, and that if he is so confident in his faith, then a trip to the museum shouldn't be able to shake it up, on the contrary, it would re-affirm it. Then, once you have him in your grasp, you can easily display to him, the many evidence supporting evoultion, which are clearly explained. If you're lucky, they'll have one of their screenings, usually regarding evolution, so you might one to sit through that, as well.

This doesn't guarantee success; however, it is sure to place a small doubt in the back of his mind, next time you try to argue. Good luck, and hope that helps.

 

[Arrogancy]

Isn't intelligent design just evolution with more of a religious background? Or do you mean creationism? Intelligent design is supported pretty much the same way evolution is supported, just with God at the start of everything. As far as science today goes it's as valid as anything else we have. Creationism on the other hand is up against a mountain of evidence. If your dad doesn't accept carbon dating then there's really not much else to do about it.

 

[Burst6]

I'm saying that religion is there to explain things that science doesn't know. And in many cases, never will know, unless you think someone's going to invent a soul-meter. Or a heaven detector. Although, as all of us will eventually find out(when we die) then I guess you could think of it that way.

Don't underestimate people. You'd be surprised how much we can figure out through the scientific method. What might seem impossible to know now may become commonly known in the future. A lot of people think that just because they can't imagine something, it means it's unknowable.

Newton made the same mistake. Back then he knew how to calculate the gravity between two bodies (let's say the earth and the sun), but when he tried to account for the forced of gravity that the other plants give the earth (when the earth is orbiting the sun and it gets close to Mars, Mars' gravity affects it), he couldn't do it. He said God did it.

We do know how to calculate more than two bodies today. If we didn't we couldn't send rovers to mars.

I got it from this video. It's a 40 minute lecture on Intelligent Design by Neil Tyson. If you want to watch, here's the link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ti3mtDC2fQo&feature=related


The point is that we as a race can know a lot of things. Just because something seems impossible doesn't mean it is.

So yeah, to me you're basically saying That Religeon is here to tide us over until science actually figures it out.


And about the soul-meter and heaven detector. If there's no proof of souls or heaven, there's nothing to go on. It simply doesn't exist, and we have no reason to believe it does. I'm not saying it's impossible, i'm saying it's just as possible that we're actually in the matrix.

 

[spartan231490]

Religion is not based in logic, so you can't use logic when arguing with a religious person =/

uh, not sure if being funny, or if i should feel insulted.

Uh, neither? Religion isn't based in logic, so that's correct, no joke hidden there. And about it being insulting...well, I really don't see how that is insulting, you can't bring up logic in a discussion with a religious person about religion seeing as their religion defies logic. They will just ignore it, in fact, thats what always happens.

Religion doesn't defy logic. Fundamentalists often twist religion to defy logic, but that isn't how religion is supposed to be. Religion exists outside the purview of logic. It is about having faith in times when logic doesn't have an answer.

I love how you know what religion is supposed to be. I also love the way you call the people who believe their good books the most the people who twist religion into something.

Outside of logic is not logic by definition. Illogical. Don't even try to spin this shit with your pseudo-intellectual rhetoric.

Bit over-aggressive don't you think? Someone's a little defensive me thinks.

I never said religion was logical, I said that it exists outside the realm of logic, and therefore can't be thought of in terms of logical or illogical. Further, I didn't say that all fundamentalists did that, I said that some do. And I suppose i misspoke myself, I meant radicals, but the two are so often synonymous I misspoke myself.

 

[spartan231490]

Religion is not based in logic, so you can't use logic when arguing with a religious person =/

uh, not sure if being funny, or if i should feel insulted.

Uh, neither? Religion isn't based in logic, so that's correct, no joke hidden there. And about it being insulting...well, I really don't see how that is insulting, you can't bring up logic in a discussion with a religious person about religion seeing as their religion defies logic. They will just ignore it, in fact, thats what always happens.

Religion doesn't defy logic. Fundamentalists often twist religion to defy logic, but that isn't how religion is supposed to be. Religion exists outside the purview of logic. It is about having faith in times when logic doesn't have an answer.

So, basically, believe this bullshit without any reason other then ''because'' instead of simply admitting that you don't know the answer or that their possibly isn't a answer?

Are you really trying to say that such a ''thought'' doesn't defy logic? What is not illogical about ''Believe this, we have no real reason to do so, but believe it anyway.''?

There is a reason to believe. It's called faith. That's the whole point of religion. Just because there is no evidence in favor of something, doesn't mean it's illogical to believe it. It's only illogical to believe if there is significant evidence against it, and there is no evidence against the existence of a god, or a soul, or an afterlife.

"I always admired atheists. I think it takes a lot of faith."
Diane Frolov and Andrew Schneider

 

[BrassButtons]

Isn't intelligent design just evolution with more of a religious background? Or do you mean creationism? Intelligent design is supported pretty much the same way evolution is supported, just with God at the start of everything. As far as science today goes it's as valid as anything else we have. Creationism on the other hand is up against a mountain of evidence. If your dad doesn't accept carbon dating then there's really not much else to do about it.

Intelligent Design is Creationism dressed up to sound secular in an attempt to get Creationism taught in schools, as part of a plot to turn the US into a theocracy. I am not kidding. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedge_strategy]

So escapees, most convincing evidence for evolution?

I recommend this site [http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/index.shtml] for a good primer on evolution. If your dad is honestly interested in what is correct, this is a good start for him to learn what evolution is. If he's more interested in maintaining his current beliefs it won't matter what you show him.

 

[The Funslinger]

So I got into an argument with my dad today. He says that there is way more evidence for intelligent design than for evolution, and that evolution is "just a theory" and has "minimal evidence"
I tried explaining to him, about fossils and genetics but he wouldn't listen

So escapees, most convincing evidence for evolution?

PS: I also tried "Every noteworthy scientist believes in evolution" he just said, no.

You could try "years of documented scientific testing, and research trumps stuff written down thousands of years ago by a bunch of people that contradict each other." Also, do you own a dog? Because dogs themselves are an example of how we influenced natural selection. They are an example of realistic evolution to those who would be all like "oh, so things just keep improving for no reason?" They don't keep improving, and it's not for no reason.

 

[Frostwhisper21]

Did anyone mention different ethnicities? Because that in itself is a decent example of evolution's mechanics. They may not necessarily be born from nautral selection, but they're still diversified slightly yet part of the same species(human).

 

[lRookiel]

No point in arguing with a religious person, you just can't win. they always have an answer that includes "thats how god did it" most of the time.

Let them be the pillocks and just move on.

 

[chaos order]

actually evolution is STILL a biological theory, its what the general population thinks a theory is thats WRONG

Well if you argue in caps I must be wrong. Instead of using my own words again, I'll be lazy and pull a quote from good ole wikipedia:

"Scientists continue to study evolution by constructing theories, by using observational data, and by performing experiments in both the field and the laboratory. Biologists agree that descent with modification is one of the most reliably established facts in science."

So again, any explanation of how evolution takes places is a theory, but evolution itself, not a theory.

the explanation for how evolution works is natural selection, and yes that is also a biological theory, but if somehow somewhere someone disproved natural selection, then evolution would not be a theory any more because the explanation of natural phenomena without any mechanisms to explain it would not fall in line with what a theory is. so you cant say that the mechanisms by which evolution occurs is theory but then say that evolution isnt because you cant have a theory for a natural phenomena without a mechanism by which it works

 

[Luke Cartner]

Just google for Dawkins, seriously

 

[Luke Cartner]

Just google for Dawkins, seriously

 

[Daverson]

Evolution's been scientifically proven, what's there to debate about?

Trying to convince a creationist who's fully aware of the theory of evolution that it's true is like trying to convince a believer in the flat earth theory that the world's round. There's so many better uses of your time.

Remember: "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink". (A pony though, you could lead that to water, and make it drink by tricking it into thinking you don't want it drink, ponies are dicks like that... I think this might somehow be relevant?)

 

[Woodsey]

Well then your dad's a moron who you shouldn't waste your time with.

There's no evidence for intelligent design, just people bending what they see to fit the 'truth' they want.

 

[Knusper]

How about the Peppered Moth or whatever it's called.

Back in Industrial Revolution, there were light grey moths that sat on the light grey bark of the solver birch tree. As the industrial revolution progressed and soot was thrown up by the chimneys of the many factories, the bark on the trees darkened and birds could easily see the moths and ate them. However, some of the moths (about 0.01%) were darker thanks to a mutation somewhere back along the line and most of the moths that survived to reproduce were these because they couldn't be seen by the birds and so eventually it was mostly dark moths that went on to define the species, so steadily the Peppered Moth grew darker.

However many years later, when there was legislation for factories to clean up their act, there was less soot being dispensed onto the trees and it was eventually all washed away by rain and the bark of the silver birch trees became lighter. This is why most of the Peppered Moths you see today are light, because the dark one are being eaten up and it's mostly lighter ones that reproduce, so steadily the species is becoming lighter.

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppered_moth_evolution#Environmental_changes

 

[Psub Xero]

http://www.cracked.com/article_19213_7-animals-that-are-evolving-right-before-our-eyes.html