spartan231490 said:
Hammeroj said:
spartan231490 said:
Monoochrom said:
Jegsimmons said:
renegade7 said:
Religion is not based in logic, so you can't use logic when arguing with a religious person =/
uh, not sure if being funny, or if i should feel insulted.
Uh, neither? Religion isn't based in logic, so that's correct, no joke hidden there. And about it being insulting...well, I really don't see how that is insulting, you can't bring up logic in a discussion with a religious person about religion seeing as their religion defies logic. They will just ignore it, in fact, thats what always happens.
Religion doesn't defy logic. Fundamentalists often twist religion to defy logic, but that isn't how religion is supposed to be. Religion exists outside the purview of logic. It is about having faith in times when logic doesn't have an answer.
I love how you know what religion is supposed to be. I also love the way you call the people who believe their good books the most the people who twist religion into something.
Outside of logic is not logic by definition. Illogical. Don't even try to spin this shit with your pseudo-intellectual rhetoric.
Bit over-aggressive don't you think? Someone's a little defensive me thinks.
I never said religion was logical, I said that it exists outside the realm of logic, and therefore can't be thought of in terms of logical or illogical. Further, I didn't say that all fundamentalists did that, I said that some do. And I suppose i misspoke myself, I meant radicals, but the two are so often synonymous I misspoke myself.
Sorry to bud in like that, on your conversation, but what you're saying is in and of itself illogical. There can be nothing that 'exists outside of logic', for logic isn't some sort of realm, for which you can be either inside, or outside of it. Logic is our way of understanding common day phenomena, and explaining them. It corresponds directly with our way of reasoning; ergo, saying that 'God exists outside of logic', is the same as saying that God exists outside of reason, which would mean what? Precisely: that God is UNREASONABLE, and, quite honestly, I couldn't agree with you more!
The following is directed towards everyone:
Oh, and in terms of 'faith'... Well, let me just tell you that any belief or notion, based entirely on faith, just like religion, can never hold to scrutiny. Let me give you an example: Say I write a book, in which I depict the creation of man, by and extraterrestrial life form, called INYOBUTT (stay with me, please), from some far away, invisible, undetectable planet, which cannot be touched by anything, ever. These aliens, you see, spoke to me in my sleep, telling me everything I need to know about them, and instructing me to write it down. This book, they seem to tell me, contains information of how we should live our lives, explaining that after we die, we go to their magical invisible planet where we spend eternity with them in glorious pleasures and such and such; however, if we anger them, then they'll send us to the opposite invisible magical planet, where their biggest enemies reside, called INYOFACE, who will, and I paraphrase, fuck your shit-up if you're naughty or something (although why they would want to punish you for defying THEIR enemies, I don't know, but whatever, let's just leave it at that); also, in the book there are some rules, by which we must all abide and live our lives, so that we can go to the INYOBUTT planet. Next thing you know, I die of a heart attack, but before that I bury the book in my backyard, for some arbitrary reason. 2000 years afterwards, some bloke finds it, and claims he now knows the origin of the world, and how it all came to be, and approaches YOU, and tells you all this fascinating stuff he found, in this book, and how many people believed him, and how monuments and buildings are being raised as we speak, in the name of the great alien race INYOBUTT, and as evidence he gives you:
a. The book itself
b. Tells you that
the only thing you need to do, to become a part of the club, is to believe in it
c. Tells you about the INYOFACE planet, which will fuck your shit up etc.
Now, say this happens TODAY, so riddle me this:
Would you believe it? And Why/Why not?
Oh, and just to list some answers that wouldn't be very appropriate, and will not count as credible answers:
1. My parents/friends don't believe it; therefore I don't / I wasn't raised with it.
2. I wasn't born in the region, in which it originated. (which is the reason you believe in a specific religion, and not in any other)
3. I don't have faith in it (that one wouldn't count, unless you explain why you don't believe it. If so, then please do)
4. Sounds silly (so does yours, and everybody else's...)
5. The Bible/Qurran/etc. show more evidence (no they don't. They show more testimonies, but certainly not evidence)
6. Some authority figure tells me it's bull****, like a pastor or something (still doesn't count, and still not evidence)
7. Everyone around me believes [THIS] religion; therefore I do.
8. [Such and Such god] told me so in my dreams, or something of the sort. (if that's the case, go see a shrink, please)
Appropriate answer:
1. Because there's no empirical evidence to back it up;
however if you chose that one, then you must apply it to every religion in the world,
including yours.
