Shit coverage? Mine is perfectly fine. Heck, my grandmother had an operation on her spine.lenin_117 said:
"Evil and Orwellian"
- Thread starter Eskay
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Me and my family have had fine coverage on the NHS, thank you very much, including my 76 year old grandfather who has had multiple strokes.lenin_117 said:
OT: To be totally honest, it's exactly the kind of random opposition that I'd expect from the Republicans, since their politics seem to be based around disagreeing with everything Obama proposes to a degree of lunacy. It is worrying that Obama's approval rating has gone down though, that doesn't bode well for him at all.
NHS Defenders Unite!Fat Man Spoon said:
WOAH WOAH WOAH. I'm left wing. And I'm also not American, so stick that in your pipe and smoke it. In light of the case examples given, I retract my statement of "NHS is shit" because you say its great and would know better then I. Even though Fat Man Spoon said this "Although it has it's problems, at least it's free." as his first post. I assumed it was bad.DemonGuy792 said:
Alright dude, sorry about seeming like I was attacking you - I wasn't, I was just generally defending the NHS in a slightly vehement manner.lenin_117 said:
It did annoy me that the Repulicans would make a statement like this though, although it wasn't wholly unsurprising.
As for "It has it's problems" - well, it does, I'll admit that, but it certainly isn't as bad as is made out, and it's certainly better than having no free health care at all.
UK: 8.2% of GDP on health care, or US$3,065 per capita. Life expectancy: 78.7Eskay said:
US: 15.2% of GDP on health care, or US$6,347 per capita. Life expectancy: 78.0
So not only is there no life expectancy bonus in the US but it costs them twice as much per person. Yes the weighting of cost is on the government in the UK but then part of that is the tax that specifically pays for it!
Socialism? Nah, civilisation.
Not something you'd expect coming from a person with Lenin as his username and a Che Guevara avatar ..lenin_117 said:
Anyway, you would not get shit coverage for various reasons. First of all the government, unlike private healthcare companies, are not trying to make a profit off of healthcare. A company will make you pay an amount of money that will cover you, but they'll make you pay extra to cover their expenses AND to make alot of profit on top of that. With a NHS every penny (well at least more than with PHC) goes to the person that needs treatment. Also since alot of Americans that currently do not have any healthcare will then also be paying for the NHS, the total amount of people contributing will increase, thus people will have to to pay less to gather the same amount of money. Lastly, there is also an indirect way that it willsave costs: with NHS, your population will generaly be healthier, and thus more productive. This will improve the economy, resulting in people making more money.
In terms of effectiveness: France is number one on the WHO's ranking of the world's health systems and they have a 'dirty socialist system', while America is like 37th or something. Michael Moore did a mockumentary about this too, it's called sicko. Yes yes Michael Moore is a fat faggy liberal who hates America and the french smell bad and their women have armpithair, but behind the America-hate there are still valid points, such as how these private healthcare companies try their best the find reasons to refuse their clients treatment (to make profit ofcourse, it's capitalism after all)
Both systems do have their advantages yes, but the the main thing is that PHC is advantegeous for the rich only, whereas NHS is advantegeous for all the rest.
Edit: Also, Rush Limbaugh would be hilarious if he didn't have such a big audience, now I think it's kind of disturbing.
I only have second hand experience of the american healthcare system but from what I've heard from my parents and other family members it is pretty flawed. It's true that you have to pay more in your taxes with the NHS but it's 'free at the point of delivery' which means that no matter what health problems you've had in the past you never have to pay more than anyone else. It isn't perfect but it does mean that you will never have to worry about not being able to afford to get ill.
YEAH!!Fat Man Spoon said:
I actually stopped reading the article about halfway through because it's plainly just more republican bullshit. No it's not fantastic healthcare, but at the same time it would probably be better if the staff were freed up from all the hypochondriacs that the 'news' has turned people into these days with all their health scares. Not to mention the 'depressed' people who aren't actually depressed, the smokers, alcoholics and people who just can't say no to fast food. The British public are just as much to blame I think and if everyone took better care of themselves the NHS would probably rock by now.
Anyone looked up the price of dialysis treatments in the US recently? If you didn't have coverage before your kidney's went, you're not going to get it after.
http://www.billpeckham.com/from_the_sharp_end_of_the/2008/01/law-suit-reveal.html
No coverage, low or middle income; you are going to die very soon.
Once you take the prices into account in the above article, consider the fact that you have to go in 3 times a week. If you don't go in, you live for about 2 weeks.
At the extreme low end of the spectrum, you're looking at $200 per visit, so roughly $2400 per month. A lady I know who wanted to visit her daughter in California shopped around to see what prices were like, and told me she couldn't find lower than $900 a treatment. Needless to day, the visit never happened.
With treatment, you can live for many years, I've seen people who have been going in for 10 years; I used to drive people to dialysis on a daily basis as a part of my old job.
So yeah... with socialized medicine people do pay taxes that creates coverage for everyone. I personally don't notice much more coming off my cheques than when I compare what I take home to those of friends in the US.
Two tier system seems like the way to go to me; but I think more people would scream bloody murder over that than going full out one way or the other.
http://www.billpeckham.com/from_the_sharp_end_of_the/2008/01/law-suit-reveal.html
No coverage, low or middle income; you are going to die very soon.
Once you take the prices into account in the above article, consider the fact that you have to go in 3 times a week. If you don't go in, you live for about 2 weeks.
At the extreme low end of the spectrum, you're looking at $200 per visit, so roughly $2400 per month. A lady I know who wanted to visit her daughter in California shopped around to see what prices were like, and told me she couldn't find lower than $900 a treatment. Needless to day, the visit never happened.
With treatment, you can live for many years, I've seen people who have been going in for 10 years; I used to drive people to dialysis on a daily basis as a part of my old job.
So yeah... with socialized medicine people do pay taxes that creates coverage for everyone. I personally don't notice much more coming off my cheques than when I compare what I take home to those of friends in the US.
Two tier system seems like the way to go to me; but I think more people would scream bloody murder over that than going full out one way or the other.
After living in and using both health care systems(USA and UK)the UK one has served me better.....and being short of money at times doesnt deter you from finding out what the problem is strait away.Jirlond said:
Though I preffered the american dentists,they polish your teeth afterwards
The NHS is free at the point of use but is most definitely not free and saying so is not only misinformation but is easy for critics to spot and mock. Some Doctors get paid very well indeed and are free to engage in as much freedom, capitalism and coca cola as they want.
There is some rationing in the system to make sure money is being spent where it can do the most good. If you are filthy rich you can still pay for that expensive treatment that probably will not work and would drain resources away from other areas.
There is some rationing in the system to make sure money is being spent where it can do the most good. If you are filthy rich you can still pay for that expensive treatment that probably will not work and would drain resources away from other areas.
Welcome to the U.S. health care debate. Fun Fact, republicans are using your country to scare ours. That's the only weapon they're choosing to launch at obama. Scaring people. This is what american politics has come to *sigh* it's fucking sad. Even worse, people are starting to fuckin buy it. On that end though, my question to republicans is, the armed forces has been getting "socialized" health care for ages now, and while it isn't perfect, it does the job it's supposed to do, i.e. takes care of servicemembers. But if it's fine for servicemembers, but not for the general american populace, why are we still getting it? If the other choice is so much better, why don't you advocate it to military service personnel? I'll tell you why, because they don't give a damn about health care, it's reform, or it's cost they just want to attack the president.
Republicans support sweatshops and outsoucing because they're an outcome of Americans pricing themselves out of the market. Capitalism in A-C-T-I-O-N! Yay, I can make sweaping untrue statements aswell.
The NHS is great despte its flaws, I'm glad my taxes go to help those who couldn't afford the treatment otherwise. I'm going to the US at the end of the month and I've got insurance so if i'm not left to die in the gutter if something goes wrong.
The NHS is great despte its flaws, I'm glad my taxes go to help those who couldn't afford the treatment otherwise. I'm going to the US at the end of the month and I've got insurance so if i'm not left to die in the gutter if something goes wrong.
You're just figuring that out, are you? Welcome to the right wing of the United States. They've been using scare tactics and underhanded techniques to get what they want for the last 9 years. You should come and visit. I can take you to a town-hall meeting with members of congress, and you can see lobbyists for the insurance industry shout over other people, and derail the whole meeting. I can show you the commercials where they bring in "real life Canadians" to talk about how they had to wait 10 years for cancer treatment, and how they couldn't get treatment for spinal injuries.Eskay said:
There are people in THIS country, who honestly believe that Barack Obama is using healthcare reform to purge the weak and inferior. No. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8Mc6fLe6Kw] I'm not [http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/240815/august-10-2009/death-panels] kidding. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRBYqazDDr4]
The sad thing is, this is nothing. George Bush lied to us about WMD's. Dick Cheney ordered the withholding of vital information from Congress. Dick Cheney also wanted to deploy troops to Chicago to root out "suspected terrorists." (Even Bush thought that idea was insane) Compared to that, lying about how other countries do heathcare seems tame.
Not only does it do what it's supposed to do, VA healthcare has been rated by multiple standards, surveys, and studies, THE BEST healthcare available in the United States of America.notsosavagemessiah said: