"Evil and Orwellian"
- Thread starter Eskay
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SilentHunter7 said:
So a new question emerges, "who isn't this good enough for, the american public? Or the American servicemember?" Yeah, I wins.
I found this hilarious as well
http://boingboing.net/2009/08/11/anti-health-care-loo.html
Some Republican claiming that Stephen Hawking would not be covered by the NHS because they don't value disabled people while completely ignoring the fact he was born and has lived in the UK for most of his life. .
http://boingboing.net/2009/08/11/anti-health-care-loo.html
Some Republican claiming that Stephen Hawking would not be covered by the NHS because they don't value disabled people while completely ignoring the fact he was born and has lived in the UK for most of his life. .
I sort of believe the theory that the US armed forces are the biggest socialist institution on the planet. The republicans do not complain because it is mostly their people who get the jobs and collect the profits.SilentHunter7 said:
The NHS does fine...it could do a lot better, but I have never heard a story about the NHS bankrupting cancer patients.
Those at the top will do anything to keep the medical insurence companies making huge profits, so they can line their pockets later.
Healthcare should be a service, not means of making profit. Go Obama!!
Those at the top will do anything to keep the medical insurence companies making huge profits, so they can line their pockets later.
Healthcare should be a service, not means of making profit. Go Obama!!
Like many Brits i love to moan about the NHS but it is one of our countries current great achievements. However the chance of other countries creating something similar is low since the NHS is ingrained in our budget since the 50's so we are used to the costs. Poltically too in the 50's the ideals behind the NHS were popular.
I can see why short-minded individuals might call it socialism, because it's a system that treats EVERYONE equally, regardless of monetary status, for example. We all pay tax towards it, but don't have to pay extra for insurance based on AGE. If I broke my ankle today, in England, I would get treatment in a hospital, for a stay as long as the doctors deemed neccessary based on MY physical state, and the only things i would have to pay, are a £6.75 for each prescription I get from my doctor in the following weeks.lenin_117 said:
For instance, I could need 50 pills on one subscription, that would last me a month. £6.75. It wouldn't matter how many pills, or what kind. The doctor will put down however many pills I need, for £6.75, and whats more, if you hardly earn any money, you can get ASSISTANCE on that £6.75 payment.
In the USA, if I broke my ankle, it would cost around $16,000 for that and a two week stay, in insurance terms, and if I didn't have insurance, they would dump me on the street.
How can you purport any sort of freedom or justice in that? We do not have a socialist state or socialist healthcare in Britain, we are NOT a socialist country. We have private healthcare aswell, if you want to pay for treatments that are newer and less used, because of the very NATURE of the NHS. It IS funded by taxes, so the majority pays for the few, but it is the same service as the police, and the Fire Department. Are they socialist because the government runs them? Would you rather that you had to have insurance to call the police out to stop your shop being robbed, or you being potentially murdered? Would you prefer your fire department to ask for your insurance number whilst your house burns to the ground with your family inside?
You don't complain about those services that YOU pay for when others need them, and you don't use them every day, but you know they are there don't you? IT is the exact same situation with the NHS, it is a government service, pay for by the citizens, that ensures that whatever wealth bracket you live in, are TREATED and HEALED to the best medical ability there is. As far as doctors careers go, an entry level doctor out of medical training can earn about £25,000 per annum, going up to £60,000 a year per annum for a specialist, and £120,000 a year for a Chief of Medicine (about $41,000 , $100,000 and $199,000 respectively).
Of course you have to "ration" drugs to different areas, but that is purely statistical. Areas with higher financial and medical needs, get MORE funding than others, and if they don't have the facilities/drugs you need, they will generally refer you to another hospital, where you will receive treatment, on the same terms as usual. Certain drugs are not adopted by the NHS, because they are often new, and because of the huge amount of money made from pharmectuical companies BASED IN AMERICA cost a lot, so they have the choice of spending double the money on a new, relatively untested drug, or the same money on a drug they KNOW works, and even if they don't buy it, if you ARE paying for a private medical insurance, you can get it privately anyway.
The attitude of this country when it comes to medicine has always been, treat first, pay later, and I don't know how anyone working in medicine could ever work for a system that denies people treatment based on their wealth, especially when people with less money, tend to get sick MORE OFTEN.
You may have noticed, I want to go into medicine, and it really aggravates me, when political arses try to slander off other systems, and deny their own citizens an easier way of life for their own personal gains.
The NHS may have its flaws, but we can proudly say that our system has two things yours definitely don't. Choice, and morality.
We can choose to go private, and for over 60 years, have cared for our own.
EDIT: I also find it intensely hilarious that none of these people who believe the republicans have seen the irony in complaining about an extra piece of tax, when they already PAY for medical insurance anyway.
It strikes me as odd that these American conservatives are identify themselves strongly as Christians yet they hate the idea of socialised healthcare. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't helping your fellow man one of the guiding principles of Christianity.
Also if the American system is great the best system around, why don't we have groups if the UK, France, Germany, Italy and all the other European states calling for an American health system?
Also if the American system is great the best system around, why don't we have groups if the UK, France, Germany, Italy and all the other European states calling for an American health system?
Of course it's not free, you idiots, free healthcare doesn't exist anywhere. However anyone can access it whether they have billions or no money at all, and many people who can afford private healthcare in the UK prefer to use the NHS anyway. That's as near to free as makes no odds.
Coming out of your taxes rather than as separate medical insurance just means that even if you could not afford the insurance you are still covered. That means that the NHS tries to cut corners wherever it can to save cash. Cheap does not always mean ineffective, just more inconvenient. You might get an ugly, obvious hearing aid instead of an almost invisible one, for instance. It still works.
As for the dental superglue thing: As im sure Americans are aware dentistry is an anomaly in the UK. It is largely private as ugly teeth aren't really seen as life threatening, and many of those who could afford to have teeth fixed don't because they object to paying for this aspect of healthcare when they are so used to getting everything else for free. You're telling me no-one in the US has ever resorted to ridiculous self-treatment because they perceived they couldn't afford something? Pull the other one.
If you think that using superglue on teeth is recommended practice you're just a big bunch of freaking idiots and I wash my hands of the lot of you.
I might also add that Orwell was a socialist who was one of the first campaigners for the welfare state and he would turn in his grave if he knew that his name was being used in this way because of a single book. If anything is reminiscent of 1984 here it is the Republican propaganda machine.
Coming out of your taxes rather than as separate medical insurance just means that even if you could not afford the insurance you are still covered. That means that the NHS tries to cut corners wherever it can to save cash. Cheap does not always mean ineffective, just more inconvenient. You might get an ugly, obvious hearing aid instead of an almost invisible one, for instance. It still works.
As for the dental superglue thing: As im sure Americans are aware dentistry is an anomaly in the UK. It is largely private as ugly teeth aren't really seen as life threatening, and many of those who could afford to have teeth fixed don't because they object to paying for this aspect of healthcare when they are so used to getting everything else for free. You're telling me no-one in the US has ever resorted to ridiculous self-treatment because they perceived they couldn't afford something? Pull the other one.
If you think that using superglue on teeth is recommended practice you're just a big bunch of freaking idiots and I wash my hands of the lot of you.
I might also add that Orwell was a socialist who was one of the first campaigners for the welfare state and he would turn in his grave if he knew that his name was being used in this way because of a single book. If anything is reminiscent of 1984 here it is the Republican propaganda machine.
Very true, My opinion exactly. It is so depressing really, that you never find a political leader interested in making peoples lives better.Dahemo said:
Ok well lets look at how it is in America: You get less taxes, but no healthcare. So you have to pay extra for healthcare, which costs a metric ton of cash. By gods our British system is so much more ineffective I say with sarcasm gushing from every orifice man has named.lenin_117 said:
In addition you likely feel this way since you have heard it from, say, the news. But it is important to realise that the reason America has turned into uproar about NHS is because this would decrease the money intake of those in charge of American healthcare, and those people have been producing propaganda in order to eliminate the threat. The people running the current health service likely receive quite a hefty pay check and wish to undermine this new "equality" they have being hearing so much about. Keep an eye on the motivations of you political leaders.
Anyway I see other people have taken the same approach to your post and you have decided to research the topic to a more extensive degree. Therefore this response was entirely pointless, damn.
Ironic said:
The ironic thing is, the public option in the Democrat's plan won't even be paid for by tax dollars. The government will charge a premium to anyone on the plan (who can reasonably afford it). Everyone will have the option of paying for government insurance, or private insurance. Except the government will play it as a zero-sum game, balancing rates with claims, and making no profit, as opposed to the private sector, who increases rates, and minimizes claims to maximize profit.Mr Companion said:
People take the piss out of the British NHS, but its a damn sight better than most other countries. I would much rather have to go to an English NHS hospital than any where else in the world, despite the ridiculous waiting times.Dahemo said:
Simply put British NHS > American NHS
American NHS? There is none! Though by Republican perceptions the acronym stands for "Nazi's Helping Socialists"phi161 said:
Socialism by republican definitions appears to be defined as any action involving not being a selfish dick.
Oh I know it goes on, I just usually expect these people to have the intelligence to avoid outright falsehoods (Sarah Palin is excepted from this naturally). Relying on extreme examples, exaggerating, using creative statistics; these are all techniques that work fine and are very hard to argue against as they are not strictly untrue. To what's being said here however the response is simple, "This is a lie, you have made it up". Truly amateur politics, but the sickening part is some people seem to lap it up still.SilentHunter7 said:
Thanks for the links, I've never seen Olbermann before. I like his style, though there's something that makes me chuckle each time he does a turn to the camera.
Sweet, I had one of those pioneering surgeries performed on me by on of the leading cardio vascular surgeons on the planet, on the NHS, purely because he wanted to practise.More Fun To Compute said:
Thank god I was at the NHS hospital at that particular time.
I'd defend the NHS till my dying day, I've only had good things from it, not quite as good as the French but still amazing stuff.
haha, yeah, when I was given a thermometer in the UK I stuck it up me bum, you know, thats how we do that in France.thylasos said:
Apparently not in England, anyway, I asked for a fresh one to stick in my mouth.