"Evil and Orwellian"

[GloatingSwine]

NHS Defenders Unite!

Rabble Rabble Rabble!!!!!

Yeah our tax funded healthcase system may fail some people but its there for EVERYONE.

The NHS fails far less people than the US healthcare system, and to a far less serious degree.

The NHS has the lowest rate of denial of care due to cost in the world, only 12% of procedures are denied on cost grounds, and these are usually only high cost procedures with poor demonstrated effectiveness.

The United States has the highest rate of denial of care due to cost in the world. 51% of procedures are denied on cost grounds, almost entirely by private insurance companies to safeguard their profit margin.

And it's the same people that are trying to kill a public option in America, because they know, know in their bones and their balls, that they cannot compete with it. The administrative overhead of Medicaid in the US is 3%, that means that for every tax dollar that gets paid into the system, 97 cents are spent on providing real aid to real patients.

The administrative overhead and profit margin of health insurance companies is 20%. That means for every dollar in premiums, only 80 cents comes back to pay for real care for real patients. That missing 17 cents? It's in the shareholder's pockets, and they ain't giving it back.

Attention America: Health insurers are fucking you in the ass, and that hand in your pocket is not the reacharound, it's them lifting your wallet whilst they do it.

 

[Jamash]

I found this hilarious as well

http://boingboing.net/2009/08/11/anti-health-care-loo.html

Some Republican claiming that Stephen Hawking would not be covered by the NHS because they don't value disabled people while completely ignoring the fact he was born and has lived in the UK for most of his life. .

That's hilarious.

No doubt they think he's American because his speech device uses an 'American accent'... they probably also think he's a cyborg.

 

[Carlos263]

How much lovley jubbly money are health insurance companies lineing the pockets of republicans with, to say this lovley load of bollacks?

just thinking if America did get something allong the lines of tax funded healthcare how much of that lovley mooolah are the insurance comapnies set to lose?

yes the NHS over here in britan has its problems theres no denying it but come on?

18th British NHS
37th America ...

NUFF SAID.

 

[GloatingSwine]

They always talk about shit that will never happen because they just want the other party to stop existing. They never try to actually ACCOMPLISH something with the other party.

Ironically, the only significant difference between the two parties is that the Democrats are a bunch of sycophantic cocksuckers who sell Americans to business interests, and the Republicans are a bunch of sycophantic cocksuckers who sell Americans to business interests and believe in Gawd.

 

[AfterAscon]

Just spotted this.

'I wouldn't be here if not for the NHS': Stephen Hawking defends UK's 'Orwellian' healthcare after attack by U.S. politicians

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...evil-Orwellian-high-level-US-politicians.html

 

[fix-the-spade]

Can anyone justify this, or is it the standard "faux" news spewing drivel I'm starting to expect from the Republicans?

It's very ironic that the republicans are criticising the NHS for 'putting a value on life' whilst they are supporting a health care system that will happily let you die horribly if you can't afford the right insurance.

They're lieing to try and up their worth. Personally I'd invite them all over to the UK and have them suffer litle 'accidents' that land them in NHS hospitals for a few weeks. Then we'll see how much they hate the idea of 'free' health care.

 

[G1eet]

While I don't agree with this latest remark, I do agree with this whole debate. This is the first time people have actually rose to their feet and raised their voices (heheheh, especially in town halls) about something that matters. Plus it's pushing less important "stories" off the air.

Seriously, who the fuck cares where Michael Jackson is buried? My god, even CNN is going to the dogs. Luckily, we still have the Escapist for reliable and relevant news.

 

[Elduderino]

"I don't know for sure," said Grassley. "But I've heard several senators say that ..."

Did anyone else read this and get an image of a bloke down the pub saying "My mate's brother-in-law's nephew's dog knows someone who said..."? I should make it clear I'm not attacking any specific group of politicians whether by nationality or political leaning but this is a pretty stupid way to start a sentence which ends in an outright lie, and seems sadly typical of individuals of all stripes at all levels of government in all nations. It's pretty much an admission that the following claim is almost certainly not true when you quote an unnamed source which by nature is unlikely to be an expert on a health provider in another country.

PS I gotta admit that I don't have unflinching faith in my nation's health service but I'd much rather it was there if I really needed it than being left to die because I don't earn enough.

 

[lenin_117]

No-one gets to insult the NHS except us Brits!

Although it has it's problems, at least it's free.

*sigh* free healthcare, too bad it's considered socialism (a sin) in America. I hate the right wing sometimes.

NOT FREE

GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT GIANT-WALL-OF-TEXT

Right. Lets do this!

1-I'm not short sighted.
2-I don't hate Socialism
3-Fire Department/Police are emergency services
4-You do not get treated/healed to the best medical ability there is. they get treated by most likely adequate medical ability
5-(most importantly) I AM NOT AMERICAN
6-I do not care that you want to go into medicine (OK, slightly trollish)
7-How do you find the time to write all that?

 

[lenin_117]

Admission here- I'm a douche

 

[Ironic]

Right. Lets do this!

1-I'm not short sighted.
2-I don't hate Socialism
3-Fire Department/Police are emergency services
4-You do not get treated/healed to the best medical ability there is. they get treated by most likely adequate medical ability
5-(most importantly) I AM NOT AMERICAN
6-I do not care that you want to go into medicine (OK, slightly trollish)
7-How do you find the time to write all that?

Ok then, I will have to respond in bullet-pointed kind.

1- Good for you on your 20/20 vision, I too have this.
2- Fair enough, I was just highlighting the label American media, the country in question due to the OP, has given it*.
3- In England, so is the NHS. I would consider a mortal injury/illness, an emergency, wouldn't you?
4- I disagree. It takes 5-7 years to become a doctor, and that is after the 2 years of college, and 11 years of mandatory schooling. If you are a case that baffles doctors in a hospital, they send you to somewhere that can, for instance, if you are a child, and you have a rare and crippling cancer that just. won't. cure. they will send you to Great Ormonds Street Hospital [http://www.ich.ucl.ac.uk/]
5- Fine, but the views stated are similar to the american views that are again highlighted, by the OP.
6- I probably wouldn't care about you wanting to go into a specialised career, but I don't shout at you for it so yes, slightly trollish.
7- I am passionate about medicine and developments regarding it, and so typed it out relatively quickly. I was also bored, it is the summer holidays off school, I had nothing to do, and am getting increasingly irate at people slandering the NHS, mainly because I think it works, it could definitely be improved, but it's better than going untreated.


EDIT: * by it, I meant free healthcare systems.

 

[purplegothchick]

No-one gets to insult the NHS except us Brits!

Although it has it's problems, at least it's free.

No it's not, it's paid for by national insurance contributions. It was intended to help pay for health care for people who can't afford it and I have no problem with people who are better off helping people who can't afford health care.

I do have a problem with the near-privatisation of the NHS: if the Tories get into power (which they probably will in the next election) they want to start charging people £20 for an appointment with the doctor, instead of it being free, like it is now. We already have to pay £15.90 for a dental checkup, which is ridiculous in itself, and we have to pay over £7 per prescription as well as full price for glasses, but this?! It smacks of hatred for the working classes, who will be able to afford this a whole lot less than upper and middle class people.

(Sorry everyone, I didn't mean to go off on a rant about this!)

 

[walls of cetepedes]

No-one gets to insult the NHS except us Brits!

Although it has it's problems, at least it's free.

No it's not, it's paid for by national insurance contributions. It was intended to help pay for health care for people who can't afford it and I have no problem with people who are better off helping people who can't afford health care.

I do have a problem with the near-privatisation of the NHS: if the Tories get into power (which they probably will in the next election) they want to start charging people £20 for an appointment with the doctor, instead of it being free, like it is now. We already have to pay £15.90 for a dental checkup, which is ridiculous in itself, and we have to pay over £7 per prescription as well as full price for glasses, but this?! It smacks of hatred for the working classes, who will be able to afford this a whole lot less than upper and middle class people.

(Sorry everyone, I didn't mean to go off on a rant about this!)

I've already discussed this. Just look through the replies.

In regards to the Tories, why don't you vote Monster Loony Raving Party?

 

[Nemorov]

The idea of a working health care is that:

You have free tax founded health care

AND

Expensive private health care.

This way you can get service in an equal and free, but slow way, or you can pay more for immediate care for stuff that even doesn't necessarily need immediate attention. I think this works, as long as both of them have good quality.

I definitely agree with this. America is much to large of a country to provide full healthcare to everyone, but if you have a smaller tax founded base then people can get SOMETHING when they need it if they can't afford private. So subsidized not free. (And there's really nothing 'free' about that... our taxes will explode if they try to cover everyone.)

As of right now, I just hope I don't get hit by a car or something because I certainly can't afford my own healthcare and therefore can't go to the doctor or dentist. It would be outrageously expensive, just to get a check up.

 

[purplegothchick]

No-one gets to insult the NHS except us Brits!

Although it has it's problems, at least it's free.

No it's not, it's paid for by national insurance contributions. It was intended to help pay for health care for people who can't afford it and I have no problem with people who are better off helping people who can't afford health care.

I do have a problem with the near-privatisation of the NHS: if the Tories get into power (which they probably will in the next election) they want to start charging people £20 for an appointment with the doctor, instead of it being free, like it is now. We already have to pay £15.90 for a dental checkup, which is ridiculous in itself, and we have to pay over £7 per prescription as well as full price for glasses, but this?! It smacks of hatred for the working classes, who will be able to afford this a whole lot less than upper and middle class people.

(Sorry everyone, I didn't mean to go off on a rant about this!)

I've already discussed this. Just look through the replies.

In regards to the Tories, why don't you vote Monster Loony Raving Party?

This is actually the best idea I've heard in a long time. While they have some crazy ideas, they definitely talk a lot more sense than the current major parties. A whole lot less bullshit in the manifesto.

 

[Pacifist Chris]

I just think its a bit strange to refer to something as orwellian and evil when THEY set up a prison camp to send people who dont agree with them to get tortured (you know where i'm talking about, i just cba spelling it), and yes, whilst i'm sure some of the people there were terrorists its not much of an excuse. Also, was healthcare free in 1984? I'm pretty sure the whole idea was that people were denied access to pretty much anything, so 'the party' paying for free healthcare would be a bit odd.

 

[cobra_ky]

dammit, why is britain being so blasted quiet about this? you guys should get infuriated and turn this into an international incident. the best thing that could happen to the health care debate in america is for us to see just how well it works everywhere else in the world.

 

[Pacifist Chris]

dammit, why is britain being so blasted quiet about this? you guys should get infuriated and turn this into an international incident. the best thing that could happen to the health care debate in america is for us to see just how well it works everywhere else in the world.

I think I saw something on the news that said Prime Minister Brown had defended the NHS, but to be honest, he's not what I'd call a rabble rousing speaker. To be honest though, I don't see why we should bother raising hell about this, any person with an ounce of sense can see this as the insubstantial garbage that it is. We still have private healthcare here, and if the republicans want to resist change, thats their buisiness.

On a more general note, I dont understand why right-wing parties get any votes at all, it seems all their interested in doing is cutting public spendng and letting the free-market run wild, I dont see why this gets a majority vote, one: because we end up in situations like the one we're in now (its interesting to note that the republican party was also in power during the great depression), and because all this public money that they save its mostly the money they get from taxes. Seeing as this is the people's money, it would make sense to spend it on te people, right?

 

[cobra_ky]

I think I saw something on the news that said Prime Minister Brown had defended the NHS, but to be honest, he's not what I'd call a rabble rousing speaker. To be honest though, I don't see why we should bother raising hell about this, any person with an ounce of sense can see this as the insubstantial garbage that it is. We still have private healthcare here, and if the republicans want to resist change, thats their buisiness.

i think you vastly underestimate the number of american who lack an ounce of sense. c'mon, save America from itself. please?

On a more general note, I dont understand why right-wing parties get any votes at all, it seems all their interested in doing is cutting public spendng and letting the free-market run wild, I dont see why this gets a majority vote, one: because we end up in situations like the one we're in now (its interesting to note that the republican party was also in power during the great depression), and because all this public money that they save its mostly the money they get from taxes. Seeing as this is the people's money, it would make sense to spend it on te people, right?

it's because a lot of people don't trust the government, which is reasonable stance to take. the problem is large corporations aren't any more trustworthy. also, a number of americans are desperately afraid that their tax money will be spent on (/shudder) OTHER PEOPLE! that's wealth redistribution! socialism! fluoride in the water! etc.

 

[nativebelle]

The hospitals in America are crazy though. They're all shiny looking, I reckon most of the money goes on that rather than the actual healthcare. Either that or they just have TOO MUCH MONEY.

The NHS is great, I've had to have so many operations because I was a bit of a sickly child and since I'm part of a working class, lowly paid, single parent family, I NEVER would have been able to get them if it wasn't part of the NHS. Plus when people go on about NHS hopsitals being unclean and the healthcare awful they're just isolated cases. You never hear people going on about how their operation went amazing and they're DEAD HAPPY about it. It's mainly scaremongering, the kind of thing that fuels this.