Ex-Sony Dev: Wii U Won't Last Another Christmas
- Thread starter Steven Bogos
- Start date
Well Nintendo bought Monolith soft so their games do count as new Nintendo IP. I expect this purchase was done to explicitly address the issue you mentioned where they did not have new core franchises coming out of their shop. So its not like they're unaware of it. I do wonder, as much as we say so, if new IP would actually help that much. Pikmin, Battalion Wars, Chibi-Robo, Xenoblade, all got met with a tepid consumer response. I wonder if they feel that investment is a dead end because in the past few years it has not yielded the interest Mario and Zelda games have?Stavros Dimou said:
As for indies on Wii U, they have embraced the Unity platform so its not quite as difficult to publish on the eShop as you mentioned. Heck a lot of the Kickstarter darlings like Mighty No. 9 are slated for a Wii U release. They have loosened their restrictions a lot and speaking to GB Harmonix even mentioned it can be easier to publish on eShop than Steam. Furthermore. There has been experimentation in new IP on the 3DS eShop in the form of Pushmo, Harmknight, and Sakura Samurai, but maybe those aren't hard core enough.
The problem with Nintendo is that they're a gaming system that is aimed almost entirely on children and teens. Sony and Microsoft make games for all age ranges and at every rating. Nintendo is literally and intentionally not targeting the largest demographic of gamers; adults.
Then they don't take the time to research the opinion of 3D before releasing the 3DS, and they don't even bother to advertise their game franchises anymore. Just throwing out sequels to decade old franchises and assuming the people who care will follow what they're doing close enough to notice.
Then they don't take the time to research the opinion of 3D before releasing the 3DS, and they don't even bother to advertise their game franchises anymore. Just throwing out sequels to decade old franchises and assuming the people who care will follow what they're doing close enough to notice.
uh, Sony and MS DON'T do that; if anything Nintendo is the only company trying to aim at children and families. Sony and MS on the other hands are aiming at the notoriously fickle teenaged audience that doesn't really have any room to grow.godofallu said:
...what, no seriously: ...what? So what your saying is that Nintendo is A. Not advertising adults and B. Only advertising adults because they rely on sequels (which is false by the way).godofallu said:
You know what? I'm sick of this. I'm absolutely sick of this. I'm sick of Nintendo getting the blame for doing nothing but sequels when EVERY GODDAMNED OTHER GAMING FRANCHISE ON THE PLANET is covered by sequel saturation. I'm sick of people complaining about the inferior of the WiiU when currently its the only console of the new generation to reach that 1080p with 60 fps that the more "advanced" competition seems to be struggling with. I'm sick of people saying Nintendo has no new ideas while in the same breath claim that all of Nintendo's new ideas are worthless gimmicks. I'm sick of every person saying Nintendo needs to grow up when it seems its one of the few game companies that will treat mature topics with ACTUAL maturity instead as an excuse for Blood and T&A. I'm sick of people saying Nintendo isn't innovated when its currently the only gaming company that is making a game console and not trying to make inferior PCs.
And most of all, I'm sick of all these "fans". The ones who come out of the woodwork to masturbate over this idea that Nintendo's falling. The ones who will ignore the world and scream to the high heavens that the company is failing in the vain attempt in will come true. The ones who will blindly and proudly claim they know all about a company without even looking at it. You know what? I'm going to say it. Microsoft and Sony has a much higher chance of pulling the plug on the PS4 and Xbox One than Nintendo pulling the plug on the WiiU.
It's also good for the consumer if I can play Sony and Microsoft games without having to buy Sony and Microsoft consoles. Hardy har, I rarely hear that one said in tangent with Nintendo having to make all the sacrifices.Darmani said:
Number one is probably true, they do take a lot of time and care making sure their games are the absolute best quality and getting the most from their hardware and controls.xaszatm said:
Number two has nothing to do with anything though. Yes if they're manufacturing consoles then their games should be exclusive, but people are arguing they shouldn't manufacture consoles, not that they should make Mario for the Wii, and X-Box, and Playstation.
Number three also is nonsensical, they already compete with third party companies for attention and money, and they're losing, the fact those companies are making games on another console doesn't mean Nintendo isn't competing for the same dollars. And saying they'll oversaturate the market is ridiculous, Nintendo is lucky to put out one big game every six months.
As to number four, Nintendo would become a much smaller company if they closed their console division but that doesn't mean the same as losing money. They're losing money NOW, they've posted losses for the last several quarters and my understanding is that's almost entirely due to poor console sales. I'm not looking it up right now but odds are good the Wii U is selling at a loss with the recent price cut as well with the hope that game sales in the future will turn a profit instead. That doesn't seem to be happening nor does it seem likely to in the future. And if other game companies can survive the licensing fees of X-Box and Playstation and make a profit, I'm sure a slimmed down Nintendo could as well. Again, they'd be a smaller company certainly, but that doesn't mean the same as unprofitable.
All these articles coming out recently along these lines make me question the PR sanity of these idiots. I already knew they had no souls, and did such things out of habit.
But to make such idiotic flubs...are they actually trolling us?
I mean, I am concerned that Nintendo is irrelevant, but I give them more clout than a failing, life-support ridden company like Capcom.
It'll be interesting what weed-out process will occur in this new generation. Unless decent games start coming out, I'm not sure I care. As it stands, the only compelling titles for me have been largely PC releases (or had co-releases on PC).
AAA titles are stale because they are too expensive to take risks. I don't care enough about the production value of the Indy Market to convert wholly to them.
I got into the consoles to play Shenmue, Jade Empire, and Legend of Dragoon. It's sad that the most compelling console release for me was back in the PS2 era. It's sad that the last JRPG that meant anything to me is Persona Freaking 4.
No, I am not counting handhelds. Why the heck should I bother with a handheld, when I have a giant blasted TV sitting idle in my living room?
Swear to god, I am sooo looking forward to the PSVita TV, just so I can try to play some of those carts on my TV. If Nintendo turns Wii-U into an apparatus to stream 3DS games, I swear I will buy BOTH simply to hook that crap up to my home theater system!
But to make such idiotic flubs...are they actually trolling us?
I mean, I am concerned that Nintendo is irrelevant, but I give them more clout than a failing, life-support ridden company like Capcom.
It'll be interesting what weed-out process will occur in this new generation. Unless decent games start coming out, I'm not sure I care. As it stands, the only compelling titles for me have been largely PC releases (or had co-releases on PC).
AAA titles are stale because they are too expensive to take risks. I don't care enough about the production value of the Indy Market to convert wholly to them.
I got into the consoles to play Shenmue, Jade Empire, and Legend of Dragoon. It's sad that the most compelling console release for me was back in the PS2 era. It's sad that the last JRPG that meant anything to me is Persona Freaking 4.
No, I am not counting handhelds. Why the heck should I bother with a handheld, when I have a giant blasted TV sitting idle in my living room?
Swear to god, I am sooo looking forward to the PSVita TV, just so I can try to play some of those carts on my TV. If Nintendo turns Wii-U into an apparatus to stream 3DS games, I swear I will buy BOTH simply to hook that crap up to my home theater system!
Nobody is saying that sequel saturation is only bad on Nintendo consoles but Nintendo depends on its sequels to stay afloat much more than the other consoles. If people suddenly became tired of Halo, xbox sales would not suffer as much as the WiiU has.xaszatm said:
I think you're assuming that the people who are hating on Nintendo and the WiiU are playstion/xbox fanboys. If the people in this topic are like me, they were probably big Nintendo fanboys until we grew up. However, I don't mean that we grew up to only want "Blood and T&A." We just developed new tastes. We want to try new things. We want more variety in our games. And since we grew up with Nintendo, we know that they are talented enough to give us something fresh and new that will blow our minds away.
But they don't. They stay safe and churn out another Mario game that will guarantee them some sales amongst the younger crowd. At this point we could say "Oh well, I'll just play some Wild Guns, or Conker's Bad Fur Day, or some Resident Evil 4." But given their track record, they've been rather unfriendly to 3rd party developers. What we're left with is a console with the same franchises that we've seen for 10-20 years and nothing else to play. So what are we to do? We simply say "Sorry Nintendo, but we're getting kind of bored with you. There's no excitement left in our marriage. We're leaving you."
Also their online infrastructure is shit.
This is the heart of Nintendo's problem. They have barely been advertising anywhere at all. They need to multiply their advertising budget by at least 10, if not more. They have a serious consumer awareness problem, and it isn't going away on its own.
Uh, the PS4 has managed it on most of its games, and I think even the Xbox One has it on a few (Call of Duty: Ghosts got a lot of publicity for failing here, but most devs are more competent than Activision).xaszatm said:
As for the Wii U, I'm struggling to think of any currently-released games that run at 1080p60. NSMBU, Nintendo Land, SM3DW, Pikmin 3, and The Wonderful 101 are only 720p, while Wind Waker HD only runs at 30fps. As far as I can tell, they've got Game & Wario (which is super-simple), Wii Sports Club (which is a last-gen port), and Rayman Legends (which runs at 1080p60 even on the 360 and PS3). I love my Wii U, but I'm not deluded enough to make claims like this that can't be backed up. Trying to compare it to the PS4 and Xbox One in terms of raw power is just ridiculous.
P.S. Thanks
Alot of the games you just listed are... "cutsy" style games. Games that where made with children in mind. That doesnt mean they arent fun or good games. But people want to play more then games that are targeted at children.Hunter Grant said:
Someone else in this thread actually said that nintendos players have grown up, but nintendo hasnt. I think thats very true.
Also if people want to play these cutsy kinda games they play them on handhelds, because thats where these kinda games are kept best since you only play them in short intervals.
The only games on that list wich i would play for hours are maybe link between worlds and fire emblem.. even thought link between worlds is once more a cutsy style game.
Nintendo simply has no mature content, nor any big name sports titles (including racing games), nor has it any other big name brands left after they abandoned their core gamers in favour of a casual more family "friendly" one. In short the Wii was nothing more then a kids toybox. wich was covered in shovelware upon shovelware. And people do not expect anything else from the Wii U. People who had bought their Wii soon had to admit that there simply where no bloody games worth a damn for the thing and it was collecting dust after the initial Wii sports rush.
They've always had a family-friendly image, though. That's never really changed. I don't want Nintendo trying to be edgy and "mature", I want Nintendo to be Nintendo. Nintendo didn't leave the "serious" gamer, the "serious" gamer left them.
Also, regardless of whether those games are "cutesy" or not, the kids market hasn't exactly just disappeared. Nintendo should and will continue to plumb those depths.
Wii U hasn't taken off. I think they're a price drop and two more big releases from breaking through, though. It's not like we haven't seen another console this past generation struggle to get traction, so it's still too early to just write them off. I'll probably snag one at $250 and the release of Smash Bros.
As for nothing beyond Wii Sports on Wii... even with the shovelware, there were tons of great titles on the Wii for anyone who cared to pay attention.
Also, regardless of whether those games are "cutesy" or not, the kids market hasn't exactly just disappeared. Nintendo should and will continue to plumb those depths.
Wii U hasn't taken off. I think they're a price drop and two more big releases from breaking through, though. It's not like we haven't seen another console this past generation struggle to get traction, so it's still too early to just write them off. I'll probably snag one at $250 and the release of Smash Bros.
As for nothing beyond Wii Sports on Wii... even with the shovelware, there were tons of great titles on the Wii for anyone who cared to pay attention.
Wait...what? He just lost confidence in himself?? A fictional character? Well, could be drugs. Ya know how these things go...Steven Bogos said:
Nintendo really squandered that extra time they had, and the lack of games didn't necessarily help matters. When it takes 2 conferences for people to fully understand what your system is about, you've done something terribly wrong.
That said, as a Wii U owner, I am happy with my purchase. I buy Nintendo's systems for the exclusives, and I'm pleased with that.
That said, as a Wii U owner, I am happy with my purchase. I buy Nintendo's systems for the exclusives, and I'm pleased with that.
That's fair, I guess I just don't take myself that seriously (I say that because of how many times you said serious and the serious emphasis you put on things beings serious and mature). I suppose that's why they purchased Monolith to do things in the vein of X, Metroid Prime series had a more adult tone and they publish games from other devs like Beyonetta to fill what they would likely never be that good at doing.Karadalis said:
I don't really see a problem with Nintendo as a developer focusing on making high quality family entertainment. Maybe its because I was so into comics in the 90s and consider how far they took all those characters down a dark road. It seems to have been a dead end. Sure they licence those characters out to movies, but the initial art form is dying, and it seems mostly because they aren't picking up new readers. I do understand that other platforms have family friendly content, don't get me wrong, I just thing aging up something that's fine the way it is can be just as perilous. People have been asking for a gritty Zelda, and they sort of got close with TP, but I just keep thinking of neck snapping Superman (there's an action figure for you) and I cringe.
I owned many Wii games first and third party, so I'm not sure I agree with the worth a damn thing, but that may just boil down to differences in tastes, mileage may vary. As for M rated content they have courted it, again publishing Beyonetta, getting the Assassin's Creed series ZombiU etc. Unfortunately the "serious" gamer you described had hardware to play those games already (or was waiting to play them on PS4 XBO because they wanted shiner versions). And on their handheld they have courted content like SMT4 aint nothing cutsy there. Ultimately I think Nintendo might just be in a catch 22 situation. Gamers(for lack of a better term) won't play the x-platform games on their systems and trying to be something they're not and make M rated content likely wouldn't work out either. So they may need to go 3rd party or handheld only or the hybrid system I described in my initial post.
P.S.
"But people want to play more then games that are targeted at children." I think you meant to say than.
P.P.S.I don't take M rated games or myself that seriously, trying to be perceived as mature is the endeavor of a child.
Something else I've noticed with Nintendo systems and "mature" content is that even when they do get mature content, it is summarily ignored by the "hardcore". How many "hardcore" titles crashed and burned on the Wii? I find that most of the folks clamoring for Nintendo to be more "mature" don't really care in the first place, and they go back to playing their XBOX or PlayStation.
Eh, if you're not afraid for the WiiU you should be.
Take black friday for example. I was in Seattle going through the huge pack of ads for black friday deals that they put in the Thanksgiving paper and noticed that while big stores (Best Buy, Walmart, Staples, etc) had ads for PS3/PS4 and 360/XBO deals, there was nothing for the WiiU. That's significant. A loss of confidence in a product at the retailer level generally signals the death of a system. If units aren't on the shelves because retailers don't think they can sell them then units aren't moving.
As for the 3D Mario game's release. I don't think that necessarily harmed the sale. It appears to be on track to do similar to what the New Super Mario Bros did with comparable first week sales (80k more, actually) and that is one of the only two titles that have sold over 1 million on the WiiU.
That being said, a year in and similar numbers for such a large title is also disheartening.
We'll have to see in January how they performed this Christmas to really see where they're at but this developer isn't wrong to think the WiiU is in a miserable position. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just kidding themselves given current conditions. The holiday sales should tell all. If my own personal analysis of ads for black friday are legitimate, it could be dismal.
So this developer isn't wrong and he also isn't alone (e.g. Jason Rubin saying they're irrelevant as a console manufacturer despite being the best in the development business. A veritable Disney of the game world. [http://www.gamrreview.com/news/90766/jason-rubin-nintendo-is-irrelevant-as-a-hardware-manufacturer/])
Take black friday for example. I was in Seattle going through the huge pack of ads for black friday deals that they put in the Thanksgiving paper and noticed that while big stores (Best Buy, Walmart, Staples, etc) had ads for PS3/PS4 and 360/XBO deals, there was nothing for the WiiU. That's significant. A loss of confidence in a product at the retailer level generally signals the death of a system. If units aren't on the shelves because retailers don't think they can sell them then units aren't moving.
As for the 3D Mario game's release. I don't think that necessarily harmed the sale. It appears to be on track to do similar to what the New Super Mario Bros did with comparable first week sales (80k more, actually) and that is one of the only two titles that have sold over 1 million on the WiiU.
That being said, a year in and similar numbers for such a large title is also disheartening.
We'll have to see in January how they performed this Christmas to really see where they're at but this developer isn't wrong to think the WiiU is in a miserable position. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just kidding themselves given current conditions. The holiday sales should tell all. If my own personal analysis of ads for black friday are legitimate, it could be dismal.
So this developer isn't wrong and he also isn't alone (e.g. Jason Rubin saying they're irrelevant as a console manufacturer despite being the best in the development business. A veritable Disney of the game world. [http://www.gamrreview.com/news/90766/jason-rubin-nintendo-is-irrelevant-as-a-hardware-manufacturer/])
I'm not afraid, but that's because I've accepted where its at. It never caught on with anybody, but me I guess. I am just super bummed about it because I was having fun with my Wii U. Sales be damned 3D World is a master class in level design. No I have no illusions that the Wii U is not in bad shape. I just feel bummed out by it.Lightknight said: