Ex-Sony Dev: Wii U Won't Last Another Christmas

[Weaver]

The thing now is that even if a developer could overcome the performance discrepancies for a multi-platform release on the Wii U; it being the only current gen console that is NOT an x86 architecture machine means higher port costs for a console no one owns.

It's basically doomed, unfortunately. I wouldn't mind picking a Deluxe cheap, like < $200.

 

[itsmeyouidiot]

I seriously hope the Wii U doesn't fail since it's literally the only console I can afford.

 

[SargeSmash]

Architecture isn't as big a deal as it used to be, since almost everyone codes in C++/C#. Not much assembly going on, I'd imagine.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Wii U processor pretty similar to the semi-Cell-based 360 architecture? I know it's PowerPC, at any rate, which is not really different from the last generation.

 

[portal_cat]

given Sony's history with Nintendo, kinda hard to take this at 100% face value.

I agree and I feel like asking someone from SONY about Nintendo is like asking someone from Google about what they think about Bing (It's bias opinion)

 

[Lightknight]

I'm not afraid, but that's because I've accepted where its at. It never caught on with anybody, but me I guess. I am just super bummed about it because I was having fun with my Wii U. Sales be damned 3D World is a master class in level design. No I have no illusions that the Wii U is not in bad shape. I just feel bummed out by it.

I wasn't specifically responding to you so much as the article in general and the average Nintendo response.

Here's the thing about the WiiU. It's fun. Nintendo makes great software and you WILL enjoy the console if you like Nintendo games. The problem is that it's priced high and has almost 0 ongoing third party support. So you're talking about paying $300 for what is essentially a Nintendo machine. If that's worth it to you then you didn't make a bad purchase.

Had they done something like drop the gamepad they could have come in at a price under $200. But even then, with the power disparity I don't know if that would have been enough. They didn't line up real 3rd party support for their launch because they though all those older major titles they ported to the WiiU would count. That was a bad bet. So it was really a perfect storm for a bad launch. Poor product recognition (people still don't know this is the Wii's successor), high price, few games released or even in production (including a lack of support of their own studios), significant criticisms levied by 3rd party developers, archaic policies like region locking and continuing to tie purchases to the console instead of the account, a significant day-one patch that strangely required a wifi connection to install that if broken would brick the system, etc.

The system alienated casual gamers by being expensive and the elderly by the gamepad being confusing/small and also the price. They tried to return to the mainstream gamer market but failed to really compete on that level either. Jack of all trades but master of none. If Nintendo wants to maintain relevant in the console market, they're either going to have to target consoles that can compete with the other markets and begin to produce first party maturer content (not boobs and whatnot, just content geared towards 18+ individuals like the other consoles offer since we make up the majority of the console gaming demographic by a fair margin). That would be the most aggressive method to take and the 50 billion they have on hand would make it happen. A safer and still wildly profitable method would be to own the casual/older demographic to the fullest. There's nothing wrong with being family friendly. That is a legitimate niche that I don't feel like Sony or Microsoft really fill. If they can do that affordably and produce interfaces that are easy for the elderly to control then I think they will absolutely have a place for decades to come.

If they can't do either. Then it's time to drop the home console hardware business and focus on their handheld hardware/software market and become a console software company like Sega did. But if they can and succeed in their area of choice then we'll all be better off.

 

[wulf3n]

Meh, people said similar things about the N64, look how that turned out.

 

[Arnoxthe1]

This has nothing to do with people buying their system.

Actually, it has everything to do with it. A former game dev came out and has said that the Wii U won't last another Christmas. I'm a little inclined to agree with him. Why? Because of the reasons I posted above. Nintendo hasn't really given anyone a good reason to buy their console. But of course, that may change soon.

 

[Lightknight]

Meh, people said similar things about the N64, look how that turned out.

One of the largest losses of market share in the history of the Video Game business? The PS1 sold over 100 million units while the N64 dropped to around 33 Million. The N64 was the first console to start losing their market share and was followed up with the more technically powerful Gamecube that only sold 22 million units (and it was not only the most powerful machine of the generation but also the cheapest). So the PS1 knocked Nintendo around and even expanded the gaming market overall by tens of millions by bringing in more grownup minded games that Nintendo was lacking despite the NES generation having grown into adults by then.

That comment aside, no one said similar things about the N64. It fell into nearly none of the pitfalls that the WiiU has. The only problem it had was fewer games than its competition and that's what likely caused the biggest problems. However, when people look back and talk about games of their childhood, chances are that they'll spout off an N64 game high up there.

 

[wulf3n]

That comment aside, no one said similar things about the N64.

Really? Because I remember it being said constantly and vividly. Someone was either saying the N64 is only going to last "x" amount of time or the N64 is going to be the death of Nintendo.

Sounds pretty similar to me.

 

[Eldritch Warlord]

Architecture isn't as big a deal as it used to be, since almost everyone codes in C++/C#. Not much assembly going on, I'd imagine.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Wii U processor pretty similar to the semi-Cell-based 360 architecture? I know it's PowerPC, at any rate, which is not really different from the last generation.

You don't have to be writing in assembly language for your code to be platform specific. Yes the vast majority of the code will be high-level and platform independent, but you may have noticed that the games industry is very competitive. A lot of work goes into optimization, getting the best graphics and highest performance, and pretty much any optimization will be platform specific.

Wii U using PowerPC architecture while it's competitors all use x86 just means that there will be more to do in terms of optimization for a Wii U port, which a relatively small install base doesn't really encourage.

You're right that the 7th generation is all PowerPC though, so Wii U would be a much simpler port of games for 7th generation consoles. 7th generation is on it's way out though.

To answer your question: no. The Wii U architecture isn't at all Cell-like (as much as has been revealed anyway, which is all that is relevant to game development), neither is the 360's architecture for that matter. Unless what you mean is that the CPU and GPU share main memory, in which case the answer is yes. In fact all the 7th and 8th generation consoles share main memory.

 

[Lightknight]

That comment aside, no one said similar things about the N64.

Really? Because I remember it being said constantly and vividly. Someone was either saying the N64 is only going to last "x" amount of time or the N64 is going to be the death of Nintendo.

Sounds pretty similar to me.

Oh, you mean generally? Yes. It was said then and has been said over and over again regarding far too many products too early in their life cycle. However, this console WAS the start of a steady decline for them. I know now it's super fondly remembered and they certainly made a tidy profit. But it's only the Wii that brought the back to full health thanks to an extreme innovation. Had it just been the Wii with a normal controller type then I have no faith that it wouldn't have hit the same route the gamecube had set.

Sorry though, I thought you were talking about the specific and actual criticisms that can be levied against the console itself. Nintendo itself is in no danger. This will not kill Nintendo anymore than a nasty papercut is likely to kill a person. However, the WiiU itself is what's in danger and a failed console generation has significant long lasting impacts on a company (customer loyalty is lost to consoles that didn't fail, development studios forge stronger alliances with console companies that the failed console isn't privy too, and some development studios even leave their parent studio in the meantime).

I think Nintendo's handheld division is enough to keep it around in the hardware market for the foreseeable future at the very least. If they give up on console hardware this generation it'll be because it's the best choice for them and not out of any necessity.

 

[Riff Moonraker]

Eh, if you're not afraid for the WiiU you should be.

Take black friday for example. I was in Seattle going through the huge pack of ads for black friday deals that they put in the Thanksgiving paper and noticed that while big stores (Best Buy, Walmart, Staples, etc) had ads for PS3/PS4 and 360/XBO deals, there was nothing for the WiiU. That's significant. A loss of confidence in a product at the retailer level generally signals the death of a system. If units aren't on the shelves because retailers don't think they can sell them then units aren't moving.

As for the 3D Mario game's release. I don't think that necessarily harmed the sale. It appears to be on track to do similar to what the New Super Mario Bros did with comparable first week sales (80k more, actually) and that is one of the only two titles that have sold over 1 million on the WiiU.

That being said, a year in and similar numbers for such a large title is also disheartening.

We'll have to see in January how they performed this Christmas to really see where they're at but this developer isn't wrong to think the WiiU is in a miserable position. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just kidding themselves given current conditions. The holiday sales should tell all. If my own personal analysis of ads for black friday are legitimate, it could be dismal.

So this developer isn't wrong and he also isn't alone (e.g. Jason Rubin saying they're irrelevant as a console manufacturer despite being the best in the development business. A veritable Disney of the game world. [http://www.gamrreview.com/news/90766/jason-rubin-nintendo-is-irrelevant-as-a-hardware-manufacturer/])

Very solid point, especially if you use the posted Black Friday sales as any kind of gauge. The Wii U got a ridiculously small piece of the pie. No, that doesnt spell the end, but if it doesnt start going in the opposite direction soon, it could be the beginning of the end.

 

[Yuuki]

"Wii U won't last another Christmas" Err yes it will. Nintendo just have to keep releasing a steady steam of Mario & Zelda titles.

 

[RicoADF]

Yeah...um compared to the other practices that Sony and Microsoft allow third parties to indulge in these are minor inconveniences at worse.

If Region locking and a stupid digital account system (that they recently announced they just fixed anyway) is the only real problem you have with Nintendo then I would say they have a B+ in terms of consumer respect.

Maybe in the US region locks are minor but elsewhere like here in Australia it's a major deal, don't assume it's trivial just because it doesn't effect you. The lack of region lock on pc and PS3 is why stores finally dropped their prices, having region locks shows that Nintendo want to gouge us and rip us off to which I say they can fuck off.

 

[BloodSquirrel]

If Nintendo wants to maintain relevant in the console market, they're either going to have to target consoles that can compete with the other markets and begin to produce first party maturer content (not boobs and whatnot, just content geared towards 18+ individuals like the other consoles offer since we make up the majority of the console gaming demographic by a fair margin). That would be the most aggressive method to take and the 50 billion they have on hand would make it happen.

Nintendo doesn't need to be making mature games- they need to be making ambitious games. If they were actually making games that kids cared about we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

Kids are a huge market. There's tons of money to be made there. Nintendo just doesn't own any of it, because they haven't created a major new franchise since Pokemon. They keep putting out Mario game after Mario game, hoping it suddenly becomes massively popular again. Nintendo, for all of their "kiddie" image, is run by old men now, who have no idea that the market has changed since the Super Nintendo.

Meanwhile, if Nintendo's games were breaking new ground and exploring new ideas, nobody would care that they weren't "mature". Minecraft isn't "mature", but it's bravely outside of the AAA mainstream. Why should I buy a Wii U? I've already got two versions of Super Smash Bros.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

given Sony's history with Nintendo, kinda hard to take this at 100% face value.

I agree and I feel like asking someone from SONY about Nintendo is like asking someone from Google about what they think about Bing (It's bias opinion)

That, and like I said earlier, who IS this guy anyway? It's the textbook case of some nobody trying to get attention. Why are people taking this guy seriously other than to take a few jabs at Nintendo?