Excuse-O-Rama

[laggyteabag]

I really wish that more developers would just say it as it is, instead of spewing out the same PR BS that they seemingly like to do so much. I mean, c'mon, Kojima, O'Connor, whoever else, you just can't write yourself out of the corner that is labeled "Our artists just like tits".

 

[Solkard]

Wait, I don't play the MGS games, but is the explanation for Quiet seriously supposed to be that she breathes through her skin? Was she created with amphibian DNA or something?

Symbiote/parasite...thing. She also drinks through her skin and undergoes photosynthesis. The explanation is all very much MGS logic in all its glory. Also, if you pay attention, the texture they use for her skin a little..off. It's subtle, but it's there.

If only Kojima had to foresight to also dress The End up in nothing but a Speedo.

Found it: http://img03.deviantart.net/ac8a/i/2015/107/c/0/the_end_in_quiet_s_tactically_sound_sniping_gear_by_voidburger-d7c5bih.jpg

 

[Grampy_bone]

Well, Kojima said he designed Quiet to appeal to female cosplayers.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-09-06-kojima-clarifies-decision-to-make-mgs5-character-more-erotic

Critical Miss misses again.

 

[Diablo1099_v1legacy]

Don't forget the new one, "Jabba likes looking at slave girls." No, Carrie Fisher wanted to show off her body so they decided to write Leia in a bikini into the script.. Its fanservice and thats okay.

Wait, Carrie actually wanted to do that scene?

Personally, I can't stand it because it makes Leia look like a dumbass in Military terms.
She runs an entire army! Get a bombing unit in place and tell Jabba to fork over her BF or get blown off the planet.
Instead she goes in almost entirely alone without support and gets captured? /)_-"

 

[Diablo1099_v1legacy]

Wait, I don't play the MGS games, but is the explanation for Quiet seriously supposed to be that she breathes through her skin? Was she created with amphibian DNA or something?

Symbiote/parasite...thing. She also drinks through her skin and undergoes photosynthesis. The explanation is all very much MGS logic in all its glory. Also, if you pay attention, the texture they use for her skin a little..off. It's subtle, but it's there.

If only Kojima had to foresight to also dress The End up in nothing but a Speedo.

Found it: http://img03.deviantart.net/ac8a/i/2015/107/c/0/the_end_in_quiet_s_tactically_sound_sniping_gear_by_voidburger-d7c5bih.jpg

Yeah, that's another thing actually.
It was kinda hinted that his Moss Camo was actually part of his body, hence why it went from a leafy green to a dead yellow as he said his last words.
While I get that the environments MGS 5 were set in mightn't allow for much greenery, it does make me wonder why they didn't do something like that with Quiet, they whole "One with Nature" thing.

Didn't have to completely turn her into a wood-elf, but seeing how she is based off The End to begin with, might as well use that part of his design as well.
Could have been a great chance to take something established and turn it into something fresh, wouldn't even make the cosplay side of things all that much harder.

 

[Areloch]

So now it would become a question of "If some explanations are, indeed, valid, then why are some not?".

I mean, I have no doubt there's a lot of creators out there that come up with flimsy excuses after the fact, but it seems awfully presumptuous to be able to wontonly point at something and go "Nah, I don't think that explanation is good enough, clearly it and the creator are sexist."

I can dig it if you think the explanation is dumb, but I think it falls apart about the time one tries to assign secretive motives to the creators because one thinks the explanation is dumb.

All in-universe justifications are valid, it's the creator's universe after all, but when we're talking about ARTISTIC DESIGN, we're talking about the actual process of creating work. You seem hung up on the idea of sexism, so let's run a hypothetical without any negative/positive value assigned to a creative decision.

You ask me, "Why does Erin wear Converse shoes when they clash with her core outfit?"
I say, "because she likes them."

I haven't answered your question, I haven't even engaged with your question. Erin doesn't "like" anything. She's not real. I made that decision. I'm essentially responding to your question, "why did you make that decision?," with, "because I made that decision." It's a useless non-response.

A far more useful response would be: "We chose the converse shoes because they contrast with her nerdier work ensemble in form, while reinforcing her blue/white colour scheme. The shoes are generally worn by younger people, and they clash horribly with her professional outfit, which reinforce her core character traits (namely that she's immature and she has trouble fitting in in professional environments)."

One response actually answers your question or criticism, the other doesn't.

Well, it's not JUST sexism. This kinda thing comes up with just about any 'ism' of late. I think I'm just getting tired of it all. Character wears a bikini in combat? Sexist, regardless of any reasoning by the creators. You shoot black zombies? Racist, regardless of the fact that you're in Africa, etc.

For the rest, if that's what you mean, then I think the question is as much at fault as anything. If the intent was "Why did you, the author, decide to make the character do this/dress like this/act like this", then it'd get more towards the personal intent of the creator to pursue that.

If the question is "Why does Quiet wear a bikini during combat", then I think it's fair to answer the inquiry with the in-universe explanation. If the question is "Why did the writer decide to make a character that breathes through their skin and thus be bikini business", then that'd get more towards the specific thought process and intent of the creator.

Asking both questions is totally valid, for sure. I think my beef is asking one question(Why does Quiet wear a bikini in combat), and expecting an different answer than the in-universe justification (or, if the creator intentionally dances around the subject like a tool) and disliking it.

Edit: To clarify further, I'm willing to accept that some authors write in a "what would this character do" way. I know when I'm trying to think of characters for stuff, I put it into the headspace of what they'd do, rather than necessarily what I'd personally want them to do.
Most definitely not all authors do that, but I've read several that start writing the characters and it goes in a different direction than they'd originally thought because they let it just happen organically based on character actions.
If one can accept that, then the "the character liked this" feels more plausible. It sounds like you don't approach writing Erin like that at ALL(which makes sense, given that she's a tool used to make specific jokes or parodies), but would you believe that some authors do write like that?
Maybe accepting that manner of writing isn't the norm in critical circles though?

 

[Diablo1099_v1legacy]

Jigggle Me Timbers!

.. .. ... *Slowly claps*

OT: I admire a developer who's honest, even if it seems shameless at first. But i'd much rather take that then "She breathes through her skin- but I don't mind having her pose like this in front of you because reasons"

... >_> So why is she posing sexually in the cockpit before every serious mission?

Like, dude. You made a good game, no- a GREAT game Kojima. But what's with the poor excuse man? If you want to show off some fan service, just be honest about it when people ask you. We're not stupid, because ... come on dude lol. Nice comic, also I LOVE how you draw female characters. I just love their faces along with their 'structure' ... they're really beautiful alright don't judge me XD

Yeah, that's something that I found rather weird as well.

Spoiler: Slight spoilers

I don't really know why they went with Quiet basically throwing herself at Big Boss like that in every screen outside of sex appeal.
She was trying to kill him at the start of the game and ended up getting lit on fire, throw out a window and forced to accept a parasite in order to live as a result.
Considering that it's partially his fault that happened to her, I'm not sure how that translates into her wanting to sleep with him.
Later on after they bond a bit, yeah, I could see it, but if she does that anyway regardless of your bond with her, then I'm confused what the in-character reason would be, outside of the Chuck Norris-style legend Big Boss has.

At least with EVA, seduction was part of her job description and given mission.

 

[Areloch]

Yeah, that's something that I found rather weird as well.

Spoiler: Slight spoilers

I don't really know why they went with Quiet basically throwing herself at Big Boss like that in every screen outside of sex appeal.
She was trying to kill him at the start of the game and ended up getting lit on fire, throw out a window and forced to accept a parasite in order to live as a result.
Considering that it's partially his fault that happened to her, I'm not sure how that translates into her wanting to sleep with him.
Later on after they bond a bit, yeah, I could see it, but if she does that anyway regardless of your bond with her, then I'm confused what the in-character reason would be, outside of the Chuck Norris-style legend Big Boss has.

At least with EVA, seduction was part of her job description and given mission.

Spoiler

She only does that after you raise your bond a fair bit. The most she does otherwise is fidget in her seat and give you an occasional nod if you stare at her.

 

[Diablo1099_v1legacy]

Spoiler

She only does that after you raise your bond a fair bit. The most she does otherwise is fidget in her seat and give you an occasional nod if you stare at her.

Ahh, alright, thanks for the correction.
Just seems like that was the case from all the promo material, videos and screenshots I saw.

Me? I was more a Walker-Gear guy myself.
It's like a car that punches people and I like to do my own sniping myself

 

[Paradoxrifts]

Leave it to the Japanese to be blunt but refreshingly honest in comparison to the deceitful PR weasel word bullshit that companies have had to adopt in response to the advent of outrage culture.

 

[Schadrach]

Wait, I don't play the MGS games, but is the explanation for Quiet seriously supposed to be that she breathes through her skin? Was she created with amphibian DNA or something?

Symbiote/parasite...thing. She also drinks through her skin and undergoes photosynthesis. The explanation is all very much MGS logic in all its glory. Also, if you pay attention, the texture they use for her skin a little..off. It's subtle, but it's there.

If only Kojima had to foresight to also dress The End up in nothing but a Speedo.

Found it: http://img03.deviantart.net/ac8a/i/2015/107/c/0/the_end_in_quiet_s_tactically_sound_sniping_gear_by_voidburger-d7c5bih.jpg

...again, all MGS logic in all it's glory. Less convoluted and more comprehensible than most MGS logic, even (admittedly, this doesn't say much).

I guess one could make an argument that the gear the End uses is designed around his biology and you simply don't invest in researching clothes for Quiet that wouldn't kill her because tits? The person I was responding to was asking how they explain the "breathes through her skin" thing.

 

[F-I-D-O]

Well, Kojima said he designed Quiet to appeal to female cosplayers.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-09-06-kojima-clarifies-decision-to-make-mgs5-character-more-erotic

Critical Miss misses again.

Notice how that article says "clarifies," not states.
That was him responding to the initial criticism of Quiet, after he said things like "Once you know the reason, you will be ashamed of yourselves" (not exact quote, but fairly close). Surprisingly, saying that non-answer annoyed people, leading to this clarification.
That doesn't change the fact that the revelation people were promised as to why she was dressed that way that would make criticizers "ashamed of their words and deeds" was a cheap, almost one sentence explanation that later contradicts earlier elements from the series. It's not a part of her character, it's that they wanted a more titillating character.

But Kojima defended it on the forthcoming in-game explanation, which fell flat. His clarification never really got mentioned again, and his reaction to criticism before release was to wait for the narrative explanation shown in the comic.

 

[Areloch]

Spoiler

She only does that after you raise your bond a fair bit. The most she does otherwise is fidget in her seat and give you an occasional nod if you stare at her.

Ahh, alright, thanks for the correction.
Just seems like that was the case from all the promo material, videos and screenshots I saw.

Me? I was more a Walker-Gear guy myself.
It's like a car that punches people and I like to do my own sniping myself

I barely used walker though
Nah, I enjoyed quiet as a buddy. Her last-second takedowns of people about to go on alert because I stupidly rounded a corner without checking has saved me quite a few times. (Also, playing spotter-sniper with her is pretty fun. Marking people via binocs and taking out an outpost as a team from a mile away is pretty amusing)

 

[Diablo1099_v1legacy]

I barely used walker though
Nah, I enjoyed quiet as a buddy. Her last-second takedowns of people about to go on alert because I stupidly rounded a corner without checking has saved me quite a few times. (Also, playing spotter-sniper with her is pretty fun. Marking people via binocs and taking out an outpost as a team from a mile away is pretty amusing)

Eh, I just prefer to work alone for the most part so Walker Gear was a good choice as he functioned like a car for all intents and purposes.
When I hear how Quiet plays, it does kinda sound like Easy Mode almost and I rather like the feeling I get when I go into a base solo at night and leave everyone Dead by Dawn >

 

[Areloch]

I barely used walker though
Nah, I enjoyed quiet as a buddy. Her last-second takedowns of people about to go on alert because I stupidly rounded a corner without checking has saved me quite a few times. (Also, playing spotter-sniper with her is pretty fun. Marking people via binocs and taking out an outpost as a team from a mile away is pretty amusing)

Eh, I just prefer to work alone for the most part so Walker Gear was a good choice as he functioned like a car for all intents and purposes.
When I hear how Quiet plays, it does kinda sound like Easy Mode almost and I rather like the feeling I get when I go into a base solo at night and leave everyone Dead by Dawn >

Haha, I hear ya.

And no, easy mode is D-Dog, aka "I'll auto-mark everthing in a 500ft radius, even through walls, and also the objective"-Dog

 

[Redd the Sock]

Yeah, I have to echo the sentiments of others here that say just being honest in motive doesn't stop much of the anger, and usually gets gets a lot of people wondering why you just can't watch porn.

The question itself is intellectually dishonest. It isn't being asked to gain insight into the creative motives of an artist, but rather to be accusatory: why did YOU put a design I don't like into YOUR game because I don't think YOU should have? The idea of "because I like it" is so common sense anyone that legitimately would accept that as an answer probably wouldn't ask the question. So of course you're going to get some BS answers. You may even get some BS answers that try and make some form of statement about sexuality and out attitudes to it.

 

[CrazyCapnMorgan]

Being a fan of boobies, I appreciate Kamitani's honesty.

Agreed. IMO, bewbs make the universe go 'round. And me and my Kirby plushie and my Kirby shirt are all ready for when October comes around again. Though breast cancer is a sub-category of a disease I dislike the most, I still heed the call for when awareness comes. Technically, however, that kind of awareness should be going year 'round, but it gives me a reason to wear my Kirby shirt for an extended period of time.

OT: The truth may not be pleasant, but it's something that shouldn't be feared. Kamitani made the correct decision in that regard.

 

[Erttheking]

Contrary to popular beleif, I like tits. And if you're going to put tits in a game, just say "I wanted a really hot girl." In hindsight I respect Dragon's Crown. Quiet..."Oh you'll feel ashamed for thinking of her that wait." Fuck you Kojima. I'm judging you not her. Just be honest and for fuck's sake know when to use it. I'm very fond of asses but focusing on Miranda's ass in Mass Effect 2 in the middle of a serious discussion murdered the moon. Most people don't really go "DAT ASS!" when they're trying to focus on a serious discussion. And if people are looking for T&A, I think the long ass serious discussion would be a mood killer. So really not only is this mood disrupting fan service, it's WEAK fan service.

 

[RJ 17]

Needs more ahegao Quiet.

...and Sorceress.

....................and why the hell not, Cortana can join in the fun too. :3

DOUJIN HENTAI MAID-SAMA FOR EVERYONE!

 

[Erttheking]

Leave it to the Japanese to be blunt but refreshingly honest in comparison to the deceitful PR weasel word bullshit that companies have had to adopt in response to the advent of outrage culture.

...Uh...you do know that Quiet was designed by a Japanese company right?