Extra Credits: No Redeeming Value
- Thread starter Extracredits
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The day I let someone else dictate my opinion is the day I let them live my life.Father Time said:
Nevermind that it's totally possible to draw different conclusions from different people based on the same material.
Another conclusion to draw from the ending: Kratos is mad beyond reason, and there is no hope for redemption. We see this from his perspective to demonstrate what the game has been saying all along.
See? Two different conclusions, both speculative in nature (arguably) not because the story is "deep" in any sense, but because it isn't completely clear what they were trying to accomplish (or I'm too thick to realize that, take your pick).
As for not playing the series, well, I'm the unfortunate owner of God of War: Chains of Olympus, and GoW2. I do admit I never finished God of War 3 (because I don't own a PS3, and my friend only rented the game), but I never once saw a scene or spectacle that showed any form of narrative depth in all three of these titles.
It felt like I was playing the same damn thing over and over again, like the developers didn't have time to recreate the conditions for what made the original so great (allegedly, from my point of view, I haven't played it) so they just tacked on the others to wring more money out of an established franchise.
It is rather sad that a genuine opinion is so easily interpreted as "flame-baiting" today, but I suppose I did come off as hostile.
Well. Whatever. I don't like the God of War series primarily because it does the amazing by boring me.
I just wanted to add that I really liked Alison's art in this week's ep. The Kratos pics were great, easily identifiable even with the minimalistic cartoon-art style.
I think the only reason I stopped liking Kratos in the middle of GoW2 as a hero was that he was trying to get revenge on Zues, who killed him so that he would stop murdering people! Then I started liking him as a villian.
Then I stopped liking him as a villian in GoW3 because it seemed like he was heading towards redemption with the lines about hope and forgiveness. I'm saying that "Guy driven mad by the gods, so he'll kill them" Worked fine by me. All you had to do was forget that he was SUPPOSED to be the hero. Think of Kratos as a villian, and you can cheer for him.
Honestly, he has pasty white skin, kills innocent people, is only in it for himself, cares little to none about consequences, is a sadistic psychopath, and has brutal ways of murder. ALL HE NEEDS TO DO IS FIGHT BATMAN AND HE'S THE GREEK JOKER!
Point of Rant: I liked Kratos as a hero, but they messed it up. I liked him as a villian, but they messed it up.
Then I stopped liking him as a villian in GoW3 because it seemed like he was heading towards redemption with the lines about hope and forgiveness. I'm saying that "Guy driven mad by the gods, so he'll kill them" Worked fine by me. All you had to do was forget that he was SUPPOSED to be the hero. Think of Kratos as a villian, and you can cheer for him.
Honestly, he has pasty white skin, kills innocent people, is only in it for himself, cares little to none about consequences, is a sadistic psychopath, and has brutal ways of murder. ALL HE NEEDS TO DO IS FIGHT BATMAN AND HE'S THE GREEK JOKER!
Point of Rant: I liked Kratos as a hero, but they messed it up. I liked him as a villian, but they messed it up.
Good video...
And I wholly agree. The first GoW was a great game, and the story was a classic greek tragedy made into a videogame, and also a perfectly stand-alone game... The second and third, while superiors in many respects, were definitely lacking in the storytelling department. I blame the change in direction (by the way, GoW 2 and GoW 3 had, once again, different directors, and the change gets noticed once again)
The two weakest points in the 3rd game were
Curiously enough, you should try one of the few God of War games not developed by Santa Monica. Chains of Olympus, while not as good narratively as the first one, its far better in that sense than the newer games.
And I wholly agree. The first GoW was a great game, and the story was a classic greek tragedy made into a videogame, and also a perfectly stand-alone game... The second and third, while superiors in many respects, were definitely lacking in the storytelling department. I blame the change in direction (by the way, GoW 2 and GoW 3 had, once again, different directors, and the change gets noticed once again)
The two weakest points in the 3rd game were
the sex minigame with Aphrodite (FTW was that), and the death of Hera (which was uncalled, unnecesary and unfulfilling)
Curiously enough, you should try one of the few God of War games not developed by Santa Monica. Chains of Olympus, while not as good narratively as the first one, its far better in that sense than the newer games.
I love these guys, seriously keep up the excellent work. I don't know if I agree with every point but the fact your sparking debate is excellent. Just like novels I think we will always get the rip-off, shallow, pointless, quick buck games but I think your right. If Games are to be taken seriously as a medium we need to up the storytelling and hard-wire it straight into this truly unique interactive medium.
There are ways games can tell stories that books and movies just cannot match, and while I enjoy all story telling mediums, I've come to crave the ability of videogames to place me directly into the middle of the story.MasterV said:
Every story has already been told, friend. It's not about the plot, it's about how the story is told. And that is where video games excel.
But to each their own.
I knew someone would bring this up, and truth is I spoke a little too quickly when I made my post. I'm perfectly capable of enjoying games like tetris and pacman (in fact, I fucking LOVE Mrs. Pacman) It's just that...as I've grown older and I find less and less time for my love of gaming I try to fill what little time I do have with thought provoking stories. I want what little I play to really make me think about it when I inevitably have to turn it off and get back to life.Father Time said:
edit
Regardless, let me say once again...as I've said in every Extra Credits thread, this is the best series on the escapist. It really is.
That is one reading... The other one is that he has to give up his humanity and the chance to be with his daughter in order to save her. Kind of like the first time he became a murderer, but this time was willingly; which can be see as his destiny was to be a god-killer no matter what.teebeeohh said:
I didn't say there isn't potential. There IS. But you can't expect a game designer to come up with a cool idea and excellent storyline. Because you'll end up with shit. As I said there ARE exceptions, and I have enjoyed the stories in many games, but I could hardly call them literary masterpieces, and if you do, you delude yourself.Michael Jaynes said:
In order for games to achieve your ideal storytelling the devs will have to pay a professional writer/storyteller to write the script. And that costs money. And thus won't EVER happen, at least in the immediate future. Why? Because that's money they need to make your game graphically superior than the next. See the problem with the industry and it's struggle to pretend that it is mature?
And I'm sorry, but I play games for fun, because no amount of story and excellent script will keep me on my chair if the game itself is a bore. Face it, in gaming what matter is the game, the content. Stories and scripts are secondary, unless you're basing a game just around that concept (e.g. a point&click adventure game)
Erm...no it's not. It's views are too narrow or too elaborate, seemingly made to stroke the ego of the hardcore gamer. In that respect I believe it succeeds, especially judging by the posts I see.Hiphophippo said:
I'm with the story guy. It is extremely rare for me to pick up a game that lacks an interesting plot. Is it really that scary to think while playing games? That it may not be fun for everyone to just slaughter things for hours on end, most of the time, mindlessly?squid5580 said:
OK great video, but I have to ask... why does a story need a part where the character redeems himself... some characters are just irredemable, they aren't like normal people. (btw im not talking about god of war because I don't know a thing about the series)
Some characters just need to be bastards. Its a little one dimensional but in my opinion there is nothing worse than someone who is really one dimensional feigning being three dimensional.
Imagine playing dnd with a guy whose character is a bastard. (He punched that one guy in the face for begging remember?) The guy playing the character could be a great guy, but if he is roleplaying a bastard the whole way through, should you really be surprised if he turns around at the end of the game and turns out to be a bastard at the end?
Just my thoughts.
Some characters just need to be bastards. Its a little one dimensional but in my opinion there is nothing worse than someone who is really one dimensional feigning being three dimensional.
Imagine playing dnd with a guy whose character is a bastard. (He punched that one guy in the face for begging remember?) The guy playing the character could be a great guy, but if he is roleplaying a bastard the whole way through, should you really be surprised if he turns around at the end of the game and turns out to be a bastard at the end?
Just my thoughts.
Ah, people love to take things literally sometimes. The reason will forever escape me. lol (Unless the poster talking to you was just being sarcastic.)Hiphophippo said: