Extra Credits: No Redeeming Value

[shadyh8er]

My interpretation is that they made him a remorseless psycho to make the ending to GOW3 all the more surprising.

Spoiler

He learned that he had hope trapped inside him and that humankind needed it more than he. So he killed himself with the sword to release hope to mankind.

Also remember he said "My vengeance ends now" before doing it which could mean he realized what his selfishness was doing to the world and wanted to end it all.

As for the 1st person sequence, I think that was just for the player to unleash frustration, b/c it only stops when you stop pressing circle.

 

[wonkify]

Terrific analysis. And I especially agree that the "Children's Special" lines at the end of GOW3, "Look within you" type writing was really egregious and hackneyed.

Sounded like it was cribbed from current day's "Cliche's R Us. Painfully lame. Reading those types of lines must be agony for actors. We all see those same types of meaningless lines in far too many types of entertainment and they are a warning klaxon of bad writing wherever they appear.

Major fail.

 

[Ritter315]

Ok, if the point of loving God of War one is quote "Feeling pity for the brutal killer." I never felt that. I played through the entire game thinking that Kratos is an unlikeable character that I felt 0 connection to as his controller, basically. If you dont like Mario, no matter how good Paper Mario: Thousand year door, or Super Mario Sunshine was, if you dont like Mario as the character, then you wont like Mario games. But for Mario, theres reasons to like him, despite his motives being untilmately futial (Bowsers is going to kdnapp Peach 1000 more times before Marios life is over) I dont like Kratos because theres no reason I felt to like Kratos or even to help him continue his journey because I felt no reason for me as the player to advance hi story.
Then again, I never liked Greek mythology due to its based on something that seems really stupid.

 

[The Austin]

When this episode started, I immediate thought "What characterization? Kratos is a douche who's only point in existing is to allow players to beat something up!"

And then you confirmed these thoughts..

 

[Rayansaki]

I disagree with your views on the character degradation through the 3 games.
Can't really be arsed making a complete explanation why, but the character progression was believable because of everything that happened to him. He was a spartan, and with newfound powers the abuse in favor of his people makes perfect sense, and because the revenge from the first game didn't really make him feel any better he was still looking for a blame figure in hope to finally rest his anguish.

I understand how the character feels less lovable and more psychotic in each sequel, but it makes perfect sense he would progress like that.

 

[Horben]

This was amazing, you are so articulate. Great work!

 

[RobfromtheGulag]

Still loving that closing credits music.

Never played any of the GoW games besides the demo on the PSP. That merely showed me that it was an action game similar to DMC, except [extremely sad revelation] I liked Dante better.

The bloodthirsty bald guy didn't have much appeal for me, and though the first game sounds pretty good at this point the 2nd and 3rd games fell in just where I expected the entire series would - at a tribute to gore Saw level.

I don't know if it's mutually exclusive, but I think Silent Hill does pretty well by casting average looking guys as the lead so they're easier to identify with. Just looking at a game's protagonist will give me a very good guess at what type of game it's going to be, and if it's worth playing.

 

[docbox1567]

Great video. I always like it when someone deconstructs a story, and I think we all learn from it.

I disagree with the criticism about the change in perspective from third person to third person. Just because it does not happen much, does not mean it does not work and shouldn't be tried. I think we're supposed to see through the eyes of a killer, and it's very unnerving. This sort of thing is experimenting with narrative and perspective and we shouldn't shun someone who tries to do things differently. It shouldn't be about a formula. There is a paragraph in the Pulitzer Prize winning novel "The Road" that shift from third person to first person. Also look at Faulkner's "As I Lay Dying", It's one story told from many different perspectives. The problem with deconstructing a story is sometimes you get it in your head that there is a right way to tell a story and a wrong way. No, there are just things that work and things that don't work and it is only through trial and error that we discover them. Let's not slam those that take a chance in telling a story; otherwise everything would be the same. We should take criticism over those that don't try to bring something new and different.

 

[ProjectTrinity]

Wow...people actually play God of War for the storytelling...Seriously?

Every game I play I play for the story. Every single one.

You're missing out on some great games that have no story.

Like Tetris and Pac-man for instance.

I knew someone would bring this up, and truth is I spoke a little too quickly when I made my post. I'm perfectly capable of enjoying games like tetris and pacman (in fact, I fucking LOVE Mrs. Pacman) It's just that...as I've grown older and I find less and less time for my love of gaming I try to fill what little time I do have with thought provoking stories. I want what little I play to really make me think about it when I inevitably have to turn it off and get back to life.

edit

Regardless, let me say once again...as I've said in every Extra Credits thread, this is the best series on the escapist. It really is.

Ah, people love to take things literally sometimes. The reason will forever escape me. lol (Unless the poster talking to you was just being sarcastic.)

I wasn't, I didn't think he was being sarcastic.

I was agreeing with your post and referring to the guy you were quoting. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Arcane Azmadi]

Great vid. GoW is an interesting example of a series where unnecessary sequels managed to completely dilute and ruin the story without negatively affecting the gameplay at all. Since the original God of War was basically a brutal hack-and-slasher in the "Devil May Cry" mould, the excellent story was actually a bizarrely unexpected bonus, like when you're enjoying a nice vanilla ice-cream cone only for your teeth to suddenly meet something crunchy and you realise they'd added maltesers to it instead. So technically it isn't that the plots of the 2 GoW sequels got worse so much as they merely returned to the (markedly lower) standards of the genre. Which is still disappointing, as the first game showed that you CAN exceed your standards if you make the effort.

Call me shallow, but i did enjoy the story.

Maybe i can because i don't feel the need to over-analyse stuff. I played the game, and saw Kratos just go ape and destroy the world. But i rolled with it and very much enjoyed it.

Well OK then. You're shallow.

(Just joking, but you did ask me to.)

I think what the video is saying is not that you can't enjoy the story, but you can't really say it's good. Narratively speaking, it's an utter mess. Enjoyment is subjective. Quality is not.

 

[742]

why does art=storytelling? im sure we've all heard music that can stir emotions without telling a story, and i think gaming is in this sense a lot closer to music that literature.*

*except that its harder to play games properly while driving.

 

[carpathic]

Another fabulous and thoughtful episode.

I always appreciate the fresh angles with which this show approaches gaming.

thanks!

 

[ProjectTrinity]

Something weird has happened this week, i just don't agree with any video posted on this site. Very strange.

First with Yahtzee slaging off a game i doubt he really played much by the sounds of it, and now this. But then, that might be because i love the God of War series for it's brutal violence and graphics. Call me shallow, but i did enjoy the story.

Maybe i can because i don't feel the need to over-analyse stuff. I played the game, and saw Kratos just go ape and destroy the world. But i rolled with it and very much enjoyed it.

The day i start to analyse everything to the point i can't enjoy anything is the day i'll throw myself off a cliff.

So you agree that ignorance is bliss then?

I lol'd. I like your post.

The key is drawing the line right in the sweet spot. Choosing ignorance is fine and all for as long as he's okay with everyone who even slightly analyzes disregarding his opinion for just that. Not everyone wants to go "lalalala, can't hear you." after all.

 

[oreopizza47]

As much as I love these Extra Credits videos, on par with my love for ZP and Unskippable, I gotta say one thing; I know that their point is vaild, and I absolutely love the new perspective they've given me on the games, I think that the trilogy holds it's story in it's own way that may not always focus on the Greek Tragedy part. Sometimes it turns away and focuses on the cathartic violence that the series is most well-known for. Unfortunately, "sometimes" happens to be half of game 2 and all of game 3. Go figure.

 

[Drakmeire]

I think the final first person perspective is meant to symbolize how you, the player, have been controlling kratos's actions the entire time and are always hiding behind the idea "I have no choice but to do this" it may be a very meta-example but if you let yourself die in the game it means you have made the choice to end the story that way. your to blame for all the death Kratos has caused and you can say the game wants you to (which is mostly does) but you always had that choice all along, the choice to play and go along with all the killing, like in any game. In the end you can kill or let yourself die (which you may deserve). the same could be said of all games...
or maybe I'm just thinking too much into this and it's simply mindless violence.
whichever you chose to believe, i guess.

 

[CheckD3]

I thought GoW3 was a fantastic game, however, I agree that the story did fall short compared to the first. I feel like the 3rd game was more for the look and the kills, which it did beautifully. Anyone else 'gasm when they fought the bosses? Each boss was well designed, and from the point of gameplay GoW3 shines bright. But story wise, it did fall short compared to the 1st, and the 2nd one felt empty, possibly because of the cliffhanger

The 2nd and 3rd games shifted to the gameplay over story, I feel like that's the problem that GoW suffered from as it grew. Especially because it conflicts with the final words of the original game V

Spoiler

And for all time, where ever there was war, it would be looked over by the new God of War, Kratos

(that above it not the exact quote, but close to what is said)

 

[Atmos Duality]

Let's not forget that in GoW3 he's looking for more power to slay a Zues, a god. You know, one of those guys that he's been tearing up for the past 3 games. It's like they (The development team) didn't even care. They recycled the adventure from the first game and pulled a Lucas.

The gameplay was fun... but I can't recommend it because of these aspects like all the reviewers did.

Spoiler

Also, the people that are saying that he killed himself in the end forget that the body disappears which; 1. leaves it open for more games, and 2. Leaves it open to interpretation as to what really happened.

How much you want to bet option 1 (in the spoiler) leads to him

Spoiler

Fighting through Hades AGAIN?

 

[jericu]

It was a very good video, and I enjoyed it quite a lot. You raised many good points throughout, but it felt to me like these videos are better when they teach us about the industry as a whole and how it can improve, instead of just on particular games of series and how they can, or could have improved. Still, other than that, this was, again, a very well made, well thought out video. Good job, and I hope you're able to keep this level of quality up over the long term. After all, nothing is worse, or sadder, than a series that starts to rot away after an extremely long string of well made episodes.

 

[The_Echo]

Though I think GoW 3 tried to do to much storytelling. Then again, it had to because it was supposed to wrap everything up. But if the developer creates situations where Kratos allows a poor slave girl to be crushed by a door and seconds later he gets all emotional and worried about Pandora, then they can't expect us to buy into that with a straight face.

While Kratos showed much apathy towards who he kills or who he allows to live (albeit only a slim few), I think it's safe to say (along with the game's implication) that Kratos connected Pandora to his daughter. Through the course of the game he becomes more protective of her, to the extent that he even changes his mind about his using her. Perhaps somewhere in the rage-filled brain of his, he felt he could partly redeem himself in this way.

OT: I'm not entirely sure you explored the first-person moment enough. When I played through it, I just kept mashing the button, expecting it to force me to stop at some point. But it didn't. The scene only stopped when I did. I probably sat their slamming into Zeus's face for two or three minutes before I thought to myself, "How long am I gonna keep doing this?" So I stopped, and after a couple seconds the scene ends. While I only rented the game and therefore couldn't experiment with it to see if it would stop me at some point, I think it's safe to say that the amount of mindless thrashing was up to the player to decide upon. I'm not sure if that's supposed to mean anything, but I figured I'd point it out.

 

[aldowyn]

One of my favorite so far, seriously. The topic was a ton more specific than normal, but it has a valid point embedded near the end: There is no such thing as "Good enough."

Every game should strive to be the best it can be, in every way, not just the ones it's best at. Every game deserves a story, and every game deserves to be its own unique experience.

Right now, many of them just aren't. (Especially FPSes, and ESPECIALLY modern warfare [MW stole the best description for its type... CoD, MoH, etc.) There are games that don't even have campaigns, though most of those really don't need them, and there are games that don't really care about the single player, which is often a crying shame.

Of course, there are movies that have incomprehensible plots in favor of over-the-top action, but this isn't art so much as mindless entertainment. (Note: I enjoy these types of movies.) What truly elevates a medium to that ever-sought-after pedestal is the experience. By that I mean the emotional and intellectual experience. For example, look at Bioshock. This is a game with a well-thought out story about a fallen culture based on a philosophy that is relatively familiar to us, as well as a creepy shooter that has a defining atmosphere like no other.

One last thing: Competitive multiplayer is not art (At least, if it is it's in a technical way-like a well-made cabinet compared to a beautifully carved wardrobe.) Competitive multiplayer, the backbone of many, many franchises and many, many gamers (Sorry Yahtzee!), is a sport more than anything. (Except entertainment, obviously.)