Extra Credits v Harrasment On Xbox Live

[thiosk]

EC is fine and I usually agree with them on many topics, but my god I hate that guy's nasally ass voice. Jam a kazoo up each nostril and hop on a soapbox.

 

[tippy2k2]

snip

I wanted to call you a lot of names, but I digress.

Each option they presented was noteworthy, and each option has been discussed with me and my friends very often before - it was very nice to see an industry figure come out with the same kind of ideas. You have to realize, gaming has NEVER been newbie-friendly, in a sense. Take someone nwebish who is beginning to grasp COD today and give them Mega Man on the NES and ask them to complete the game. With the current attention span of gaming and life in general, only true gamers would stick with it until the end - those who love to play.

That's the kind of people I want to see in the gaming community, people who love games, people who love to play and people who want to share their love with others! Not some crap-spouting idiots and jerks who can't handle defeat even in the realm of video games and send messages like that to people in the EC episode! That's just sick and effed up. The fact that you are basically defending them makes me feel like you are one of these types.

You're going to sit there, state that you have a bunch of not-nice-things to say to me for my view, and tell me that I'M the bad guy here?

Harassment is something that needs to be taken care of but as I stated, Extra Credits ideas are ones that I strongly disagree with and gave my reasons for why I disagreed with them. If you think these ideas are good ideas and should be implemented, I'm all ears for why you think it's a good idea but keep the passive-aggressive attacks out of it.

 

[CrazyCapnMorgan]

As a lady who likes to use mic but does not like getting shit for it, I can only say `Yay`.

I stopped paying for gold on Xbox live because of all the rubbish, there's no reason I can't be myself in a game. If that means using mic, dudes need to deal.

People who say its not a big deal or that the ones getting the harrassment should just deal with it are usually people who have never encountered it themselves.

I'd like to see more gamer girls. I only know a few, but some of them are good enough to hand me my fourth point of contact on a regular basis.

I think it's something along the lines of what George Carlin called "dick fear", and since women don't possess that anatomy (or the testosterone that goes with it) some guys resort to harassment like that in order to fell better about themselves, especially during bouts of competition.

All I can is - keep being yourself and don't let the mindless rabble get to ya!

 

[getoffmycloud]

Calumon: Like making them eat cake until they explode!

Sorry Calumon, I really don't think that would be a good idea. It would be more like a reward than a punishment. XD.

Clearly you have never seen matilda.

 

[BreakfastMan]

Each option they presented was noteworthy, and each option has been discussed with me and my friends very often before - it was very nice to see an industry figure come out with the same kind of ideas. You have to realize, gaming has NEVER been newbie-friendly, in a sense. Take someone nwebish who is beginning to grasp COD today and give them Mega Man on the NES and ask them to complete the game. With the current attention span of gaming and life in general, only true gamers would stick with it until the end - those who love to play.

Sorry, but I just got to point it out: you pulled a "No True Scotsman" here. There are no "true" gamers. There are just gamers. :/

Harassment on Xbox360, just turn off the headset and block them, easily done.

Maybe because they want to actually play the game and chat with people without being asked "tits or GTFO"? You know, be treated with decency and respect?

 

[tippy2k2]

snip.

I'll agree that the message system would work better with the auto-block set on how many times they are reported rather than how many times they don't get a response. However, what they mentioned was a start anyway (I imagine that's why Microsoft arranged a talk with them rather than just simply taking them at their word and applying them instantly). Either way it would be better than continuing to ignore the problem. And they mentioned in the video punishing new players should be avoided if at all possible.

And I think you've misread the clan thing. Yes there probably will be jerk clans who don't care, but aren't there ALREADY jerk clans out there who don't care about what they do? I know I've seen them. All the system would do is label them for what they are so people quickly know what they're dealing with, and would motivate the clans who don't want such a reputation to manage their memberships to make sure they don't devolve into the same thing.

You can't argue that SOMETHING has to be done about this, and I applaud the EC crew for actually getting a few tangible ideas on the table. I feel like the rest of the gaming community is quick to huff and puff about how bad it is without actually offering any possible solutions. Outrage without action is simply bile, useless and inert.

I could have mis-understood the Clan thing, that's fair.

I feel that the tools are already in place to deal with harassment and adding complications to it is just a bad idea. If people are not reporting it, you can't blame Microsoft for not seeing it. If Microsoft is not enforcing it, that's on them to fix that.

Hell, Microsoft should take a page out of Internet Forums and have volunteer Moderators who play games and point out shit-heads. The trash that is on Xbox Live needs to be taken out but the ideas that Extra Credits giving bring their own problems to the table while doing minimal to fix the situation.

 

[Phasmal]

As a lady who likes to use mic but does not like getting shit for it, I can only say `Yay`.

I stopped paying for gold on Xbox live because of all the rubbish, there's no reason I can't be myself in a game. If that means using mic, dudes need to deal.

People who say its not a big deal or that the ones getting the harrassment should just deal with it are usually people who have never encountered it themselves.

I'd like to see more gamer girls. I only know a few, but some of them are good enough to hand me my fourth point of contact on a regular basis.

I think it's something along the lines of what George Carlin called "dick fear", and since women don't possess that anatomy (or the testosterone that goes with it) some guys resort to harassment like that in order to fell better about themselves, especially during bouts of competition.

All I can is - keep being yourself and don't let the mindless rabble get to ya!

That's what I don't understand about our community, loads of guys want more women to be interested in games, but the ones who are have a heap-ton of shit to deal with.

I've been accused of being an attention whore just for speaking in a game. I find it easier now to use a mumble/vent run by my boyfriend and his brothers for when we play together rather than use any voice chat in games. It's silly that some dudes will take offense (or insta-friendrequest) just because I say `Spy`.

But I'm stubborn, so dudes trying to get rid of me just makes me want to stay more. ;D

 

[Jack and Calumon]

Calumon: Like making them eat cake until they explode!

Sorry Calumon, I really don't think that would be a good idea. It would be more like a reward than a punishment. XD

Have you ever had too much cake?

Like you've eaten way more than you can handle, but you need to finish that last French Fancy? Imagine, if you will, that a single Jaffa cake is remaining uneaten but you've already had the Victoria Sponge, the Cheesecake and Dessert Muffin. You feel stuffed, like you can't even move, because you really can't. Cake is filling, and after a while, you start to feel heavier as you eat it, but when reach bloated, eating more feels painful. The pressure builds in your gut more and more as you scoff down another slice of fruit cake. The Carrot Cake makes you feel like your very insides are being stretched far beyond what they are capable of. Your lungs are starting to be compressed from the very cake filling your now very wide stomach as you are forced to shovel in another handful of Profiteroles. As you load in another Buttered Scone, you can feel that your Esophagus itself is being used to store the delicious, crumby treats.

Suddenly, after shoving down a final mouthful of Black Forest Gateau, you stop and snap. Your gut objects and refuses to be a part in this any longer and decides that if you won't stop, it shall have not a single part in this sick game and shall leave by force. You both know what is coming, and your stomach is only too proud of itself for this sacrifice. With a triumphant bang, it bursts, the pressure ripping open your abdomen too, with half chewed Swiss Rolls and Brownies flying across the room, giving you nothing but pure agony as you wish you had never been so gluttonous in the first place, as your very insides are leaving your torso in utter joy that you can no longer divulge on an endless sea of sweet treats and crumbly goods.

Calumon: And that's not nice at all... :S

 

[Gennadios]

I think it's the community being angry at both EC and the site managers for EC leaving, when EC first arrived they were seen as a godsend and represented the Escapist's attitude to gaming perfectly, now it's just sad, and the forums havn't been the same since...

I'm not sure if by "the Escapist's" attitude you meant the attitude of the staff or the community.

If staff, I'll have to agree. To me, EC made some good points and analysis but never really had teeth. The show's creators were too entrenched and reliant on the gaming industry to be too critical... kind of how (some of) Escapist editorials and particularly reviews feel to me.

If community, I think Jim Sterling is the better analyst. His anger and vitriol fit better with gamer's outlook on gaming atm.

 

[tippy2k2]

snip

I don't know about others but I mute everyone because of the foul language you get on XBL so if there was auto mute I would give people a chance.

Ok the message thing perhaps not the best idea but tbh how often do you send a message to a person you don't know because you normally only encounter them in a game so you would just use your headset so maybe just limiting messages to friends only for everyone or having it set to that by default so people can turn it off if they want to.

Making players earn communication should be a last resort because that would hurt people who don't play MP that often or have to share an account with a family member who is a a bit of a knob online but they are not.

And anyway I am sure Microsoft will be able to put their ideas across as well so they can sort out what is practical and what isn't

I suppose your view with the auto-mute could make sense. I'm just seeing it as being imbalanced due to the amount of people who just mute everyone by default (a report system would be much better here).

As for the messages, I generally will send a "Good Game" to people (FIFA player here!) and not everyone who loses will respond. If they're sending you shit-head messages, I don't see what's wrong with the "Block Communication" button. Maybe I'm the exception to the rule but not everyone who sends messages to their opponents are sending shit-head messages.

Earning communication is just a dumb idea and is the one thing that I just think is plain bad in their list of fixes (the others COULD be done but I still don't think they're good). My college roommates were banned from my account because they acted like knot-heads. Microsoft has stated plenty of times that "My friend was using my account and they did the bannable action" is not a valid defense.

 

[BreakfastMan]

Well then, how would you deal with the problem? If people start acting immature online, I just block em and not all matches have total twats on them.

I would start handing out bans for offenders, using a "3-strikes" system. People need to get the message that this stuff is just not okay, and will not be tolerated. Those who act like a douche online will receive a strike. They continue their actions, another. When they get to 3, they are banned from X-Box live Gold forever, unable to send messages to anyone but the people on their friends list, and their account will be marked with a "Banned for misappropriate behavior" message. Might be a bit... harsh, but that is my idea.

 

[CrazyCapnMorgan]

As a lady who likes to use mic but does not like getting shit for it, I can only say `Yay`.

I stopped paying for gold on Xbox live because of all the rubbish, there's no reason I can't be myself in a game. If that means using mic, dudes need to deal.

People who say its not a big deal or that the ones getting the harrassment should just deal with it are usually people who have never encountered it themselves.

I'd like to see more gamer girls. I only know a few, but some of them are good enough to hand me my fourth point of contact on a regular basis.

I think it's something along the lines of what George Carlin called "dick fear", and since women don't possess that anatomy (or the testosterone that goes with it) some guys resort to harassment like that in order to fell better about themselves, especially during bouts of competition.

All I can is - keep being yourself and don't let the mindless rabble get to ya!

That's what I don't understand about our community, loads of guys want more women to be interested in games, but the ones who are have a heap-ton of shit to deal with.

I've been accused of being an attention whore just for speaking in a game. I find it easier now to use a mumble/vent run by my boyfriend and his brothers for when we play together rather than use any voice chat in games. It's silly that some dudes will take offense (or insta-friendrequest) just because I say `Spy`.

But I'm stubborn, so dudes trying to get rid of me just makes me want to stay more. ;D

Awesome. Also, that mic story reminded me of another George Carlin saying, one I hope you don't take offense to (or could, perhaps, verify): "Women are crazy, men are stupid. And one of the main reasons women are crazy is because men are stupid. It's not the only reason, but it's a big one."

People will be stupid like that, gamers or no. Incidentally, if you try bringing the topic of gamer girls up in-game, the responses can get pretty comical, as I've done so multiple times. People just need to chill and have fun. Kinda like what games are meant to be.

Captcha: enjoy life. EXACTLY!

 

[Something Amyss]

It would've really fit in the thread we had recently (Jim vs EC on topics that are a little similiar at best).

Was that the thread where people were screaming about James and company being nazis because they were destroying free speech or something? Because I remember a huge ordeal over them suggesting ways to handle bullying over a private network (which was changed into something on the rough scale of Hitler and the Jews, IIRC)

 

[spartandude]

Well then, how would you deal with the problem? If people start acting immature online, I just block em and not all matches have total twats on them.

I would start handing out bans for offenders, using a "3-strikes" system. People need to get the message that this stuff is just not okay, and will not be tolerated. Those who act like a douche online will receive a strike. They continue their actions, another. When they get to 3, they are banned from X-Box live Gold forever, unable to send messages to anyone but the people on their friends list, and their account will be marked with a "Banned for misappropriate behavior" message. Might be a bit... harsh, but that is my idea.

that sounds good in theory problem is that can be abused fairly easily. ive actually had quite a few unpleasent messages over XBL after i beat a sore loser in a game.
ive also seen a group of people filing complaints againt someone because she was a woman, or atleast they said they were, i cant varify whether they did or not.
yes i know these examples are purely anecdotes and very rare if not one of kind events but they still happen

 

[Formica Archonis]

Can I get a drama-free recap of the drama that made EC go away? I used to like that show, even if I didn't agree with it.

I fear you're asking for oxygen-free air, there.

As short and drama-free as I can make it: A dispute over money. And that's all I'm gonna say on the topic, as I have a horse in that particular race and don't want my own negative emotions to spill over into anything I describe.

 

[Something Amyss]

That's what I don't understand about our community, loads of guys want more women to be interested in games, but the ones who are have a heap-ton of shit to deal with.

I've been accused of being an attention whore just for speaking in a game. I find it easier now to use a mumble/vent run by my boyfriend and his brothers for when we play together rather than use any voice chat in games. It's silly that some dudes will take offense (or insta-friendrequest) just because I say `Spy`.

But I'm stubborn, so dudes trying to get rid of me just makes me want to stay more. ;D

Good on ya.

People tend to not pay attention to this happening unless it's happening to them, which is where a lot of the problems come in. A lot of the people who ask why more women aren't involved in gaming are missing the part where women get harassed hardcore online. It's especially hard to deal with at the entry level. That is, when someone is a "new" gamer.

 

[Scow2]

I think it's the community being angry at both EC and the site managers for EC leaving, when EC first arrived they were seen as a godsend and represented the Escapist's attitude to gaming perfectly, now it's just sad, and the forums havn't been the same since...

I'm not sure if by "the Escapist's" attitude you meant the attitude of the staff or the community.

If staff, I'll have to agree. To me, EC made some good points and analysis but never really had teeth. The show's creators were too entrenched and reliant on the gaming industry to be too critical... kind of how (some of) Escapist editorials and particularly reviews feel to me.

If community, I think Jim Sterling is the better analyst. His anger and vitriol fit better with gamer's outlook on gaming atm.

I hate Jim's whiny RAEGFACE all the time, and generally prefered EC's more moderate view on the industry.

Well then, how would you deal with the problem? If people start acting immature online, I just block em and not all matches have total twats on them.

I would start handing out bans for offenders, using a "3-strikes" system. People need to get the message that this stuff is just not okay, and will not be tolerated. Those who act like a douche online will receive a strike. They continue their actions, another. When they get to 3, they are banned from X-Box live Gold forever, unable to send messages to anyone but the people on their friends list, and their account will be marked with a "Banned for misappropriate behavior" message. Might be a bit... harsh, but that is my idea.

Perma-ban is too harsh, especially with just 3 strikes. People do say stupid stuff, but 1-3 month-ban is far more reasonable depending on the offense: Problem people still stay away if they get repeatedly banned

 

[BreakfastMan]

Well then, how would you deal with the problem? If people start acting immature online, I just block em and not all matches have total twats on them.

I would start handing out bans for offenders, using a "3-strikes" system. People need to get the message that this stuff is just not okay, and will not be tolerated. Those who act like a douche online will receive a strike. They continue their actions, another. When they get to 3, they are banned from X-Box live Gold forever, unable to send messages to anyone but the people on their friends list, and their account will be marked with a "Banned for misappropriate behavior" message. Might be a bit... harsh, but that is my idea.

Perma-ban is too harsh, especially with just 3 strikes. People do say stupid stuff, but 1-3 month-ban is far more reasonable depending on the offense: Problem people still stay away if they get repeatedly banned

Okay, you make a good point. I don't want to go soft on them, but I think something like this would work fairly well: 3-strikes to first ban, which lasts 3 months. After that, 2-strikes to a 6-month ban. Then, 2-strikes to a permaban.

EDIT: Then, do it like here: wait 6 months without infractions to remove a single strike. 2 years without harassment and your slate is wiped clean.

snip...

You could just integrate an appeals system then. If people feel they were unfairly modded, have them be able to appeal to the mods.