Extra Credits v Harrasment On Xbox Live

[tippy2k2]

snip.

I'll agree that the message system would work better with the auto-block set on how many times they are reported rather than how many times they don't get a response. However, what they mentioned was a start anyway (I imagine that's why Microsoft arranged a talk with them rather than just simply taking them at their word and applying them instantly). Either way it would be better than continuing to ignore the problem. And they mentioned in the video punishing new players should be avoided if at all possible.

And I think you've misread the clan thing. Yes there probably will be jerk clans who don't care, but aren't there ALREADY jerk clans out there who don't care about what they do? I know I've seen them. All the system would do is label them for what they are so people quickly know what they're dealing with, and would motivate the clans who don't want such a reputation to manage their memberships to make sure they don't devolve into the same thing.

You can't argue that SOMETHING has to be done about this, and I applaud the EC crew for actually getting a few tangible ideas on the table. I feel like the rest of the gaming community is quick to huff and puff about how bad it is without actually offering any possible solutions. Outrage without action is simply bile, useless and inert.

I could have mis-understood the Clan thing, that's fair.

I feel that the tools are already in place to deal with harassment and adding complications to it is just a bad idea. If people are not reporting it, you can't blame Microsoft for not seeing it. If Microsoft is not enforcing it, that's on them to fix that.

Hell, Microsoft should take a page out of Internet Forums and have volunteer Moderators who play games and point out shit-heads. The trash that is on Xbox Live needs to be taken out but the ideas that Extra Credits giving bring their own problems to the table while doing minimal to fix the situation.

 

[Phasmal]

As a lady who likes to use mic but does not like getting shit for it, I can only say `Yay`.

I stopped paying for gold on Xbox live because of all the rubbish, there's no reason I can't be myself in a game. If that means using mic, dudes need to deal.

People who say its not a big deal or that the ones getting the harrassment should just deal with it are usually people who have never encountered it themselves.

I'd like to see more gamer girls. I only know a few, but some of them are good enough to hand me my fourth point of contact on a regular basis.

I think it's something along the lines of what George Carlin called "dick fear", and since women don't possess that anatomy (or the testosterone that goes with it) some guys resort to harassment like that in order to fell better about themselves, especially during bouts of competition.

All I can is - keep being yourself and don't let the mindless rabble get to ya!

That's what I don't understand about our community, loads of guys want more women to be interested in games, but the ones who are have a heap-ton of shit to deal with.

I've been accused of being an attention whore just for speaking in a game. I find it easier now to use a mumble/vent run by my boyfriend and his brothers for when we play together rather than use any voice chat in games. It's silly that some dudes will take offense (or insta-friendrequest) just because I say `Spy`.

But I'm stubborn, so dudes trying to get rid of me just makes me want to stay more. ;D

 

[Jack and Calumon]

Calumon: Like making them eat cake until they explode!

Sorry Calumon, I really don't think that would be a good idea. It would be more like a reward than a punishment. XD

Have you ever had too much cake?

Like you've eaten way more than you can handle, but you need to finish that last French Fancy? Imagine, if you will, that a single Jaffa cake is remaining uneaten but you've already had the Victoria Sponge, the Cheesecake and Dessert Muffin. You feel stuffed, like you can't even move, because you really can't. Cake is filling, and after a while, you start to feel heavier as you eat it, but when reach bloated, eating more feels painful. The pressure builds in your gut more and more as you scoff down another slice of fruit cake. The Carrot Cake makes you feel like your very insides are being stretched far beyond what they are capable of. Your lungs are starting to be compressed from the very cake filling your now very wide stomach as you are forced to shovel in another handful of Profiteroles. As you load in another Buttered Scone, you can feel that your Esophagus itself is being used to store the delicious, crumby treats.

Suddenly, after shoving down a final mouthful of Black Forest Gateau, you stop and snap. Your gut objects and refuses to be a part in this any longer and decides that if you won't stop, it shall have not a single part in this sick game and shall leave by force. You both know what is coming, and your stomach is only too proud of itself for this sacrifice. With a triumphant bang, it bursts, the pressure ripping open your abdomen too, with half chewed Swiss Rolls and Brownies flying across the room, giving you nothing but pure agony as you wish you had never been so gluttonous in the first place, as your very insides are leaving your torso in utter joy that you can no longer divulge on an endless sea of sweet treats and crumbly goods.

Calumon: And that's not nice at all... :S

 

[Gennadios]

I think it's the community being angry at both EC and the site managers for EC leaving, when EC first arrived they were seen as a godsend and represented the Escapist's attitude to gaming perfectly, now it's just sad, and the forums havn't been the same since...

I'm not sure if by "the Escapist's" attitude you meant the attitude of the staff or the community.

If staff, I'll have to agree. To me, EC made some good points and analysis but never really had teeth. The show's creators were too entrenched and reliant on the gaming industry to be too critical... kind of how (some of) Escapist editorials and particularly reviews feel to me.

If community, I think Jim Sterling is the better analyst. His anger and vitriol fit better with gamer's outlook on gaming atm.

 

[tippy2k2]

snip

I don't know about others but I mute everyone because of the foul language you get on XBL so if there was auto mute I would give people a chance.

Ok the message thing perhaps not the best idea but tbh how often do you send a message to a person you don't know because you normally only encounter them in a game so you would just use your headset so maybe just limiting messages to friends only for everyone or having it set to that by default so people can turn it off if they want to.

Making players earn communication should be a last resort because that would hurt people who don't play MP that often or have to share an account with a family member who is a a bit of a knob online but they are not.

And anyway I am sure Microsoft will be able to put their ideas across as well so they can sort out what is practical and what isn't

I suppose your view with the auto-mute could make sense. I'm just seeing it as being imbalanced due to the amount of people who just mute everyone by default (a report system would be much better here).

As for the messages, I generally will send a "Good Game" to people (FIFA player here!) and not everyone who loses will respond. If they're sending you shit-head messages, I don't see what's wrong with the "Block Communication" button. Maybe I'm the exception to the rule but not everyone who sends messages to their opponents are sending shit-head messages.

Earning communication is just a dumb idea and is the one thing that I just think is plain bad in their list of fixes (the others COULD be done but I still don't think they're good). My college roommates were banned from my account because they acted like knot-heads. Microsoft has stated plenty of times that "My friend was using my account and they did the bannable action" is not a valid defense.

 

[BreakfastMan]

Well then, how would you deal with the problem? If people start acting immature online, I just block em and not all matches have total twats on them.

I would start handing out bans for offenders, using a "3-strikes" system. People need to get the message that this stuff is just not okay, and will not be tolerated. Those who act like a douche online will receive a strike. They continue their actions, another. When they get to 3, they are banned from X-Box live Gold forever, unable to send messages to anyone but the people on their friends list, and their account will be marked with a "Banned for misappropriate behavior" message. Might be a bit... harsh, but that is my idea.

 

[CrazyCapnMorgan]

As a lady who likes to use mic but does not like getting shit for it, I can only say `Yay`.

I stopped paying for gold on Xbox live because of all the rubbish, there's no reason I can't be myself in a game. If that means using mic, dudes need to deal.

People who say its not a big deal or that the ones getting the harrassment should just deal with it are usually people who have never encountered it themselves.

I'd like to see more gamer girls. I only know a few, but some of them are good enough to hand me my fourth point of contact on a regular basis.

I think it's something along the lines of what George Carlin called "dick fear", and since women don't possess that anatomy (or the testosterone that goes with it) some guys resort to harassment like that in order to fell better about themselves, especially during bouts of competition.

All I can is - keep being yourself and don't let the mindless rabble get to ya!

That's what I don't understand about our community, loads of guys want more women to be interested in games, but the ones who are have a heap-ton of shit to deal with.

I've been accused of being an attention whore just for speaking in a game. I find it easier now to use a mumble/vent run by my boyfriend and his brothers for when we play together rather than use any voice chat in games. It's silly that some dudes will take offense (or insta-friendrequest) just because I say `Spy`.

But I'm stubborn, so dudes trying to get rid of me just makes me want to stay more. ;D

Awesome. Also, that mic story reminded me of another George Carlin saying, one I hope you don't take offense to (or could, perhaps, verify): "Women are crazy, men are stupid. And one of the main reasons women are crazy is because men are stupid. It's not the only reason, but it's a big one."

People will be stupid like that, gamers or no. Incidentally, if you try bringing the topic of gamer girls up in-game, the responses can get pretty comical, as I've done so multiple times. People just need to chill and have fun. Kinda like what games are meant to be.

Captcha: enjoy life. EXACTLY!

 

[Something Amyss]

It would've really fit in the thread we had recently (Jim vs EC on topics that are a little similiar at best).

Was that the thread where people were screaming about James and company being nazis because they were destroying free speech or something? Because I remember a huge ordeal over them suggesting ways to handle bullying over a private network (which was changed into something on the rough scale of Hitler and the Jews, IIRC)

 

[spartandude]

Well then, how would you deal with the problem? If people start acting immature online, I just block em and not all matches have total twats on them.

I would start handing out bans for offenders, using a "3-strikes" system. People need to get the message that this stuff is just not okay, and will not be tolerated. Those who act like a douche online will receive a strike. They continue their actions, another. When they get to 3, they are banned from X-Box live Gold forever, unable to send messages to anyone but the people on their friends list, and their account will be marked with a "Banned for misappropriate behavior" message. Might be a bit... harsh, but that is my idea.

that sounds good in theory problem is that can be abused fairly easily. ive actually had quite a few unpleasent messages over XBL after i beat a sore loser in a game.
ive also seen a group of people filing complaints againt someone because she was a woman, or atleast they said they were, i cant varify whether they did or not.
yes i know these examples are purely anecdotes and very rare if not one of kind events but they still happen

 

[Formica Archonis]

Can I get a drama-free recap of the drama that made EC go away? I used to like that show, even if I didn't agree with it.

I fear you're asking for oxygen-free air, there.

As short and drama-free as I can make it: A dispute over money. And that's all I'm gonna say on the topic, as I have a horse in that particular race and don't want my own negative emotions to spill over into anything I describe.

 

[Something Amyss]

That's what I don't understand about our community, loads of guys want more women to be interested in games, but the ones who are have a heap-ton of shit to deal with.

I've been accused of being an attention whore just for speaking in a game. I find it easier now to use a mumble/vent run by my boyfriend and his brothers for when we play together rather than use any voice chat in games. It's silly that some dudes will take offense (or insta-friendrequest) just because I say `Spy`.

But I'm stubborn, so dudes trying to get rid of me just makes me want to stay more. ;D

Good on ya.

People tend to not pay attention to this happening unless it's happening to them, which is where a lot of the problems come in. A lot of the people who ask why more women aren't involved in gaming are missing the part where women get harassed hardcore online. It's especially hard to deal with at the entry level. That is, when someone is a "new" gamer.

 

[Scow2]

I think it's the community being angry at both EC and the site managers for EC leaving, when EC first arrived they were seen as a godsend and represented the Escapist's attitude to gaming perfectly, now it's just sad, and the forums havn't been the same since...

I'm not sure if by "the Escapist's" attitude you meant the attitude of the staff or the community.

If staff, I'll have to agree. To me, EC made some good points and analysis but never really had teeth. The show's creators were too entrenched and reliant on the gaming industry to be too critical... kind of how (some of) Escapist editorials and particularly reviews feel to me.

If community, I think Jim Sterling is the better analyst. His anger and vitriol fit better with gamer's outlook on gaming atm.

I hate Jim's whiny RAEGFACE all the time, and generally prefered EC's more moderate view on the industry.

Well then, how would you deal with the problem? If people start acting immature online, I just block em and not all matches have total twats on them.

I would start handing out bans for offenders, using a "3-strikes" system. People need to get the message that this stuff is just not okay, and will not be tolerated. Those who act like a douche online will receive a strike. They continue their actions, another. When they get to 3, they are banned from X-Box live Gold forever, unable to send messages to anyone but the people on their friends list, and their account will be marked with a "Banned for misappropriate behavior" message. Might be a bit... harsh, but that is my idea.

Perma-ban is too harsh, especially with just 3 strikes. People do say stupid stuff, but 1-3 month-ban is far more reasonable depending on the offense: Problem people still stay away if they get repeatedly banned

 

[BreakfastMan]

Well then, how would you deal with the problem? If people start acting immature online, I just block em and not all matches have total twats on them.

I would start handing out bans for offenders, using a "3-strikes" system. People need to get the message that this stuff is just not okay, and will not be tolerated. Those who act like a douche online will receive a strike. They continue their actions, another. When they get to 3, they are banned from X-Box live Gold forever, unable to send messages to anyone but the people on their friends list, and their account will be marked with a "Banned for misappropriate behavior" message. Might be a bit... harsh, but that is my idea.

Perma-ban is too harsh, especially with just 3 strikes. People do say stupid stuff, but 1-3 month-ban is far more reasonable depending on the offense: Problem people still stay away if they get repeatedly banned

Okay, you make a good point. I don't want to go soft on them, but I think something like this would work fairly well: 3-strikes to first ban, which lasts 3 months. After that, 2-strikes to a 6-month ban. Then, 2-strikes to a permaban.

EDIT: Then, do it like here: wait 6 months without infractions to remove a single strike. 2 years without harassment and your slate is wiped clean.

snip...

You could just integrate an appeals system then. If people feel they were unfairly modded, have them be able to appeal to the mods.

 

[Phasmal]

Good for them, I guess.

I didn't mind the Episode or the solutions they thought up, well, for the most part atleast. I do however also ask myself why so many people are such, well...pussies for lack of a better term. I mean, why does it bother so many people so much? In one ear, out the other.

For the record, I would be most pleased if I didn't have to listen to any of you.

Agh, okay I'll bite.
I hardly think it `pussy` to not want to be harrassed just for using your voice.
Yeah, its easy to ignore at first, but when you're getting it all the time just because you are different to the `average` gamer, it begins to get you down.

All people who game get random abuse sometimes from people who can't stand losing, but getting called a ***** because you use your real voice is just irritating and its the kind of shit we need to stop.

 

[Meight08]

I still think there is a line between harassment and the need to grow a spine which alot of woman need to learn.

 

[Moosejaw]

There's already an option to only voice communicate with people you're friends with. If you think everybody online is a douchebag and you don't want to talk to them, why are you bothering trying to talk to them? I did this years ago and I haven't had a single 13 year old insult my mother yet (On Xbox LIVE anyway).

 

[Phasmal]

Good for them, I guess.

I didn't mind the Episode or the solutions they thought up, well, for the most part atleast. I do however also ask myself why so many people are such, well...pussies for lack of a better term. I mean, why does it bother so many people so much? In one ear, out the other.

For the record, I would be most pleased if I didn't have to listen to any of you.

Agh, okay I'll bite.
I hardly think it `pussy` to not want to be harrassed just for using your voice.
Yeah, its easy to ignore at first, but when you're getting it all the time just because you are different to the `average` gamer, it begins to get you down.

All people who game get random abuse sometimes from people who can't stand losing, but getting called a ***** because you use your real voice is just irritating and its the kind of shit we need to stop.

It may get to you personally, but, as I'm sure you can guess, I consider that your problem, you know, sticks and stones. I agree that it shouldn't be such a widespread issue, but your sensibilities are your problem. I really don't see why you would take such offense when someone pathetic enough to actually do so calls you a *****. I've gotten plenty of shit myself, big whoop.

For the record though, you Ladies have your peers to blame, atleast partially. Even if you don't do it, their are plenty of attention seeking women that flaunt it around. It's pretty much the same deal with homosexuals, practically nobody gives a shit unless you make a big deal out of it, some people however just can't resist. They make it suck for everyone else by giving others a reason to be annoyed. Not to really say it's "your" fault, but that kind of behavior does factor in. Mostly it's just people being butt-hurt though xD

Also, whats the deal with the whole ''I'll bite''?

The `I'll bite` refers to me knowing better than to try and talk about ladies and gaming in the same post. It hardly ever ends well and I end up looking like an `angry girl gamer`, when I'm anything but.

`*****` is a light term, I don't get offended by that, mostly. But I didn't wanna have to put up some of the stuff that actually gets said. It's horrible to be attacked just for saying something innocent just because you dare to have a female voice. And it's not my problem, its practically every woman who games' problem and its stupid and it shouldn't be allowed to continue. It's hard to explain to someone who doesn't experience it.
I'm totally fine with someone being an ass to me online if I have just handed them a fresh slice of whoopass. Sour grapes and all that. But just talking? Just being a girl? It's dumb. Needs to stop.

Captcha: Hard lines. I guess.

 

[Phasmal]

I'm sorry, but women aren't special snowflakes. You actually believing that only women get this kind of abuse for such laughable reasons kind of points to you not actually having a clue what shit the guys have to deal with.

Do you know how often I've been told someone is going to fuck my mother/sister/girlfriend? Hell, some have gone far enough to just say rape right off the bat. Or how often I'm told that they'll just straight up murder me? Happens often enough and you know what, since I don't speak, killing them tends to be enough to earn that attention. But do I whine and cry about it? No.

So, no, it isn't about ''Just being a girl'' it's about existing. That's enough. All your post is telling me that you think this is solely a female problem. It isn't. The only part of the problem that is mainly female is that they apparently can't deal with it like nearly everyone else.

I don't think I said I was a `snowflake` anywhere or that only women get this abuse, let's not play sillybuggers now.
I'm saying that a lot of women get shit just for being women, I'm having a hard time thinking you've never seen that. It goes on a lot in this community. A lot of girls just pretend not to be girls to avoid it.

I can `deal with it`, or I wouldn't still be playing games online, I'm just saying it's dumb and should stop.

EDIT: Also, I'm aware of the shit guys get, I play with nothing but guys. I'm talking about when we're having a good game, nobodys trying to troll anyone but then I say something and some dude gets all bent-out-of-shape about it. It's dumb.

 

[Dr Pussymagnet]

I've never understood the desire for more strict enforcement on Xbox Live.

What's so hard about muting people or...I don't know, just not plugging in your mic?

 

[Phasmal]

Wow, the entire point of my berating you flew about a mile over your head, didn't it?

Again:

EVERYONE gets shit for MINOR reasons, I myself have been given shit for simply winning a encounter. THAT is my point. Not "Durr this does not happen to da womenz!" but "We get that kind of shit and worse, what the fuck makes you think that women exclusively have to deal with this?"

And for the record, in contrast to the Ladies we don't commonly get desperate Guys willing to gives us free Games just for being civil to them. I've seen both cases, Women catch shit for nothing and Women getting praise and love for their mediocre play and the fact that they exist. I've also seen more cases then not that when some solitary douche attacks a woman for no reason the rest of the guys go into White Knight mode. Seriously, what the fuck do you have to complain about in contrast to me? You can atleast see a positive side for the same stupid reasons, I can only catch negatives.

Truely extremly surprising that anyone would think you only care about the womans side of the story.

I didn't realise you were `berating` me, I can disagree with someone quite calmly.

I've never got free shit for being a lady, so there's that. The only special treatment I have had is being called female-specific insults, so I can't really say I have any positives there.
Getting shit for beating someone is downright expected, but I'm not saying I agree with people being dicks. Our whole community has a problem with rampant dickholes.

I have a personal interest in the community getting over the `girls dont play games` bollocks, obviously, but I welcome anything that may help lower the amount of audience smacktards get.

I've not said anything about only caring about women. See? Never ends well.

EDIT: By the way I'm not really interested in continuing a-back-and-forth, I'm in a good mood and dont wanna ruin it. At the end of the day, trolls bad, being nice good.