Extra Punctuation: Battlefield 3 Is Scary

[Erttheking]

I'm starting to get the feeling that he's just bashing us over the head now, practically screaming "DID I MENTION I'M A CYNIC?!" Seriously, some of us take pride in where we live, countless countries have long proud histories, America, Britian, France and Spain just to name a few. Those countries have worked hard to make themselves world powers and it only makes sense that people would take pride in that. Then again Yahtzee is the type of person who ripes apart every single last aspect of human life that has the slightest bit of flaw to it, it's only a matter of time before he dismisses Christmas as just a waste of time and money, saying it's just a corporate selling season.

Seriously this guy needs to lighten up and enjoy life a bit more.

I think you misunderstand Yahtzees point. He isn't talking about having pride in your country. He's talking about unquestioning patriotism, unfettered nationalism, the fetishisation of the military that formed part of concepts such as Lebensraum, The Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere and Serbia for the Serbs. That your race/country/civilisation is inherently superior and the ability of your military to buttfuck anybody and everybody else is directly related to your superiority. 'We are America, so we are right' is a frightening concept.

Now I don't think America is going to happily skipping down the path of Fascism and outright empire anytime soon, but I think that a (very) popular game is displaying such ideas is somewhat worrying and worthy of discussion.

Yeah that's something that some people seem to bring up, Yahtzee in particular seems to think that America has a secret lust for being invaded and loves to stomp on people whenever we get the chance and that we think that all other countries are inferior...I'm not quite sure how insulted I should be. Personally I just like living here, though to be fair I would LOVE to go to Ireland (exploring my cultural background) If he took a look at anything releated to American mainstream media for a second, he would see that people are cheering that we're pulling out of the Middle East and that a lot of Americans want to stop helping other countries with military support, a view I am slowly begining to share.

The thing is, I didn't get that much of an "AMERICA FUCK YEAH!" feeling from MW3 (Know it's about BF3 but...I didn't play that one and I'm almost certain he's going to bring up this point again when he gets to MW3, and if not it can be considered a counter to the idea that's all that mainstream games are about.), sure there are a couple of moments like with the Submarine and the AC-130, but the thing is the Russians are seriously dominating the war in that game, and the American forces never really seem to acomplish anything, not to mention the REAL main heros are two former British SAS commandos and members of the Russian resistance. BF3 could be the American > everyone else wank that Yahtzee says that it is, I wouldn't know, but we're not like that, and mainstream games aren't all like that. Sorry if I went off topic.

 

[12th_milkshake]

Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious. O wilde

 

[Panda Mania]

That's a very valid reason for disliking the modern shooters. Personally, I don't like them because they're too grounded in reality as in, dirt-brown environments with boring real-life firearms and such. the stories aren't too riveting, either. I prefer fantastical journeys like Bioshock and Fallout...*shrug*

 

[serata]

Just thought I'd mention, perhaps a quibble, but there's a large gulf of difference between Patriotism and Nationalism, nationalism being the negative form of patriotism. Patriotism generally encompasses dissent (Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it - Mark Twain), love for the land itself, and the principals that its foundation imply, which when you get right down to it, are generally things that we all have in common regardless of our nationality. Nationalism, however, is "the policy or doctrine of asserting the interests of one's own nation, viewed as separate from the interests of other nations or the common interests of all nations. (dictionary.com)" Yahtzee means to say Nationalism, from what I understand his article to be saying.

To illustrate, most Americans experience Patriotism when demanding troops be pulled from an unjust war.

Fox News spouts Nationalism like a beheaded chicken (ironic because good ol' Rupert is an aussie) to the detriment of America's image and the people in it, all because those other guys ain't free like us muricans.

To say most Americans are nationalistic is just plain silly, I know many people here and I know perhaps three at most who are fox-news watchin' gun totin' commie hatin' tea baggers. It just so happens that our PR guys down at Fox News and EA Digital Illusions are in league with Satan.

I concur with the guy who said that a really interesting American shooter would be about trying to balance public relations with body count, so you'd really have to think about the reasons for your actions - is that person really dangerous, or are they just in the wrong place at the wrong time - did you kill someone's son? Then the media has a field day and you're let go from your post.

 

[Terramax]

So many of Yahtzee's articles are like this. He starts by making interesting observations on game design and then can't be fucked finishing them; becoming either really tangental or just going somewhere completely unrelated. It's like he's got ADD or something.

I don't think it's that he doesn't finish them, but more he wants us to come to our own conclusion. He makes an observation, but it's left to us to decide whether we agree and/ or to discuss on the forums.

Perhaps...

Just thought I'd mention, perhaps a quibble, but there's a large gulf of difference between Patriotism and Nationalism, nationalism being the negative form of patriotism. Patriotism generally encompasses dissent (Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it - Mark Twain), love for the land itself, and the principals that its foundation imply, which when you get right down to it, are generally things that we all have in common regardless of our nationality. Nationalism, however, is "the policy or doctrine of asserting the interests of one's own nation, viewed as separate from the interests of other nations or the common interests of all nations. (dictionary.com)" Yahtzee means to say Nationalism, from what I understand his article to be saying.

I think he's talking about patriotism. I think Yahtzee disagrees to the idea of supporting your country at all times, but should either support all countries equally, or support whatever side deserves to be supported, regardless of whether you have lived there or not.

 

[Terramax]

Silly, silly Yahtzee, still thinking that singleplayer BF3 actually matters. This article, and his BF3 video review, is like reviewing a porn and talking about the wallpaper in the bedroom.

I guess that's true if porn videos spend millions of dollars and months creating the wallpaper.

 

[xdiesp]

Silly, silly Yahtzee, still thinking that singleplayer BF3 actually matters. This article, and his BF3 video review, is like reviewing a porn and talking about the wallpaper in the bedroom.

I guess that's true if porn videos spend millions of dollars and months creating the wallpaper.

Not to mention multiplayer focused games would be much cheaper to make & to buy without single. If they still retain it, there's a reason.

 

[SnakeoilSage]

If Yahtzee did start reviewing indie games full-time, they would love him even as he hated their games. And it would convince more people to shrug off big productions in favor of creative ones.

 

[themerrygambit]

Don't worry Yahtzee... Serious same 3 BFE comes out today...

 

[SnowShovel]

I hadn't heard of The Binding of Isaac, so I naturally looked it up, and all I could think of was "Oh my, someone remade Space Dungeon from 1981!"

 

[Warforger]

Now if I were to take the M rating of BF3 at face value, and say that 18 year old's were purchasing it, they were "8" when these wars started. What I want to really hit home here, is that the middle east conflicts are becoming a "right of passage" for American youth. Another thing to consider is that America is a rather ultra violent culture within the youth set.

What? It's not any worse than any country in Europe or the like (Hell in Bosnia murdering a Muslim could be a rite of passage), now going to war is not a rite of passage necessarily, it could be for the more Conservative groups but not on a whole.

As far as "what it is" to be "American" or how "Americans" see things? I would simply point to Dennis Prager on the topic. Most American's couldn't tell you much of anything about America, not with any consistency. What this game does, is speak to a lower middle class/ upper poverty class perception of the middle eastern conflicts and sells it hard through the EA fist pump and dump.

Well no shit, America is a huge country which has very diverse people's cultures etc. there is no encompassing mono-culture that there is in smaller countries, sort of compare it to Latin America, while at first glance a Mexican and say a Chilean may seem to be the same people, but focusing on culture and upbringing they're completely different. This is partly because America has a shitton of Ethnic groups whose accents reflect European ones, like in the Mid-West there is a heavy Scandinavian influence so the dialect from South Dakota sounds closest to a Swede's, whereas the South has a huge British influence on its accent (and yes it's the region with the most racism and obesity) for one American to tell you anything it would vary from region to region because not many people in America view things the same.

The real question will be what will be the retention of DICE player base after BF3, considering the dramatic departure of what the series has done in the past.[/quote]

 

[Lupvirga]

watch Soulless (hear http://youtu.be/ViygB_FzeF0 )and you see that it more SAD then scary. funny thing is, it's multiplayer.

 

[obiwanchernobi]

I completely agree with the assessment of the single player mode in battlefield. I don't think I've ever been more let down by lameness in my life. Especially the whole thing about dropping you into the physics engine because Battlefield has one of my favorite physics engines since i originally played on the Source engine, and more recently the SKATE series. They could have done so much more with the potential of that game and they fucked us over by racing us around to all the set pieces and trying to make it a movie. Where did we ever get to just sit and enjoy playing the fucking game?