Building Sequels Badly
Yahtzee takes another look at the ongoing problem of videogame sequels.
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Yahtzee takes another look at the ongoing problem of videogame sequels.
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Extra Punctuation: Building Sequels Badly
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
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Case in point: Final Fantasy. Look at what happened when they stopped creating and started polling: Final Fantasy 12, 13, and 14... None of which deserve numerals. (XI doesn't either, but for different reasons. It's pretty good I guess, so I'll let it slide).
EDIT One thing though:
EDIT One thing though:
MegaMan 2 and 3.
Wow, a 3 pager. Very nice.
OT: Video game sequels really should only be used to indicate that the game uses some of the same mechanics, while delivering a new story every time.
Though it has to be said, I enjoyed Kingdom Hearts 2 better than Kingdom Hearts. The mechanics were much tighter and the story really was better. You had an actual group you were fighting against that had multiple people with differing perspectives on their objectives instead of a single person vaguely hinted at throughout the game that doesn't even show his face until the end.
OT: Video game sequels really should only be used to indicate that the game uses some of the same mechanics, while delivering a new story every time.
Though it has to be said, I enjoyed Kingdom Hearts 2 better than Kingdom Hearts. The mechanics were much tighter and the story really was better. You had an actual group you were fighting against that had multiple people with differing perspectives on their objectives instead of a single person vaguely hinted at throughout the game that doesn't even show his face until the end.
Well, sequels can work if they work planned from the beginning, ie. Metal Gear Solid, or Assassin's Creed. But even they can be terrible; so Yahtzee, I agree with you once more!
I know this is stretching it on the issue of "same characters", but The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask is an adequate example of a rushed sequel churned out in direct response to the former game's success, where both plot and game mechanics can be argued to be superiour (I know there are a lot of OOT supporters out there disagreeing with me on this point. I'm not attempting to start an OOT vs MM discussion so please keep calm).
Sometimes rushed sequels can prove a blessing in disguise. Just saying.
Sometimes rushed sequels can prove a blessing in disguise. Just saying.
I see your points with sequels, and while I don't always agree that there should be no sequel, I understand your frustration with how most sequels are done. And while the setup with Portal 2 commits the same sins as BioShock 2 and God of War 2, it's the rest of the story that made it up for me. It's true Portal 1's story was subtlely introduced as the story progressed and that's what delivers the surprise that has attracted its rabid following. But Portal 2 doesn't attempt to mimic the surprise from the predecessor (much like Modern Warfare 2 killing your protagonist about three times). Instead, Portal 2 decides to tell a new story that shows both the before and after of the events of Portal 1. And what makes this story so damn entertaining is how unbelievably well written it is.
Now you do have a point that this is a far more story-driven game than the first one. But that point doesn't bother me. Actually, it's what made me embrace and recommend Portal 2. The first game was a fun little puzzle game. The second takes that premise and expands a whole new universe based on that concept while retaining the basic gameplay elements from the first. This was very similar to Half-Life 2's evolution from Half-life 1, only difference between the two series is that one had a major graphical overhaul.
Now you do have a point that this is a far more story-driven game than the first one. But that point doesn't bother me. Actually, it's what made me embrace and recommend Portal 2. The first game was a fun little puzzle game. The second takes that premise and expands a whole new universe based on that concept while retaining the basic gameplay elements from the first. This was very similar to Half-Life 2's evolution from Half-life 1, only difference between the two series is that one had a major graphical overhaul.
You make a lot of assumptions, such that the writers themselves didn't want Glados back, and that had been the intended story from the get go. You also seem bothered by the fact that Valve didn't think the core of Portal was the same one you did.
3-pager!
I must agree with Yahtzee. Although I think there are a lot of people out there touting Portal 2 as better than the first.
The first game was elegant in its simplicity and uniqueness. It had great subtle dark comedy that made it more endearing. Then the waves of fans took hold of it and turned it in to the worst never-ending internet gaming joke/quote monstrosity in recent history.
Portal 2 wasn't bad by any means, but it completely lost its subtlety and hit almost every check mark in the Hollywood sequel checklist. You liked one sarcastic computer with an inferiority complex? Then how about TWO sarcastic computers with inferiority complexes! More explosions? Guy with British accent for comic relief? Constant nods to things from the first movie that only wind up making them less special?
You got it!
It doesn't matter if the stupid "cake" references finally died, because now we have space potatoes!
I wouldn't hold up Portal 2 as an example of how NOT to do sequels (if most sequels were as good as it, that would be great), but it is a good example of how to completely overdo everything that made the first game so charming and unique.
I must agree with Yahtzee. Although I think there are a lot of people out there touting Portal 2 as better than the first.
The first game was elegant in its simplicity and uniqueness. It had great subtle dark comedy that made it more endearing. Then the waves of fans took hold of it and turned it in to the worst never-ending internet gaming joke/quote monstrosity in recent history.
Portal 2 wasn't bad by any means, but it completely lost its subtlety and hit almost every check mark in the Hollywood sequel checklist. You liked one sarcastic computer with an inferiority complex? Then how about TWO sarcastic computers with inferiority complexes! More explosions? Guy with British accent for comic relief? Constant nods to things from the first movie that only wind up making them less special?
You got it!
It doesn't matter if the stupid "cake" references finally died, because now we have space potatoes!
I wouldn't hold up Portal 2 as an example of how NOT to do sequels (if most sequels were as good as it, that would be great), but it is a good example of how to completely overdo everything that made the first game so charming and unique.
I also thought GLADoS never seemed like a credible threat, but I wasn't sure if that was the joke, or if it was just my interpretation.
I also thought she didn't seem like a threat in the second- after all, you already know the punchline.
Wheatley was more interesting in that respect, but kind of felt tacked on to me.
But yeah, as you said, you've already said this all before.
Perhaps instead of Portal 2, there should have just been some level packs with new mechanics- like Portal Prelude.
I also thought she didn't seem like a threat in the second- after all, you already know the punchline.
Wheatley was more interesting in that respect, but kind of felt tacked on to me.
But yeah, as you said, you've already said this all before.
Perhaps instead of Portal 2, there should have just been some level packs with new mechanics- like Portal Prelude.
The "surprise!" argument that's supposed to go in Portal's favour (fuck you Chrome, there is a U in there) doesn't really make sense to me - it seems to work on about the same logic as a game being deemed bad because of the unbearable amounts of hype. And as well all know, that's stupid.
As for Glados not being the same in Portal 2, its implied throughout Portal that she did murder everyone in the facility, whilst her methods to psychologically 'undermine' Chell remain about the same.
I can see the argument about story taking over, but I felt they were simply better balanced, and that the moments where the story 'interrupts' are actually moments used to pace the game and ease your puzzle-induced migraine.
And most people and fans are saying its better than the first.
And BioShock 2 is better than BioShock.
*runs away*
As for Glados not being the same in Portal 2, its implied throughout Portal that she did murder everyone in the facility, whilst her methods to psychologically 'undermine' Chell remain about the same.
I can see the argument about story taking over, but I felt they were simply better balanced, and that the moments where the story 'interrupts' are actually moments used to pace the game and ease your puzzle-induced migraine.
And most people and fans are saying its better than the first.
And BioShock 2 is better than BioShock.
*runs away*
I can agree with most of these I think one Game that tried to do a non-fan sequel was Dragon Age, they chaned the region, the character and then spend some time referring bck to what happened depending on your save file.
However DA:II suffered from 1 major Flaw. That it weas rushed out so the number of level models was pathetic. People sometimes rag on thew combat but moving from DA:O on the PC to DA:II on the PS3 I prefer the flow and tightness of the controls
However DA:II suffered from 1 major Flaw. That it weas rushed out so the number of level models was pathetic. People sometimes rag on thew combat but moving from DA:O on the PC to DA:II on the PS3 I prefer the flow and tightness of the controls
Argh, yes. I hate when stuff is tacked onto a story once it's ended.
This is more a complaint of mine in regards to movies and so on than to games, but it still applies. It almost always ends badly.
This is more a complaint of mine in regards to movies and so on than to games, but it still applies. It almost always ends badly.
If you made a list of all the awesome characters in fiction whose character arcs were hijacked to pander to fans, it would probably circle the earth. It's been an issue for over a century at least, if we consider Sherlock Holmes readers as the first manifestation of modern fanboys.
Absolutely agree on the "fans being idiots" issue. The development and execution of art and entertainment should be handled by the guys with all the skill and creativity, not the people who are just mindlessly clamoring for more samey-ness.
I'd say the original Half-life was much more story driven than the original portal. Either way, the major issue here seems to be how much Portal 2 focuses on back story, compared to the Half-life franchise, which never really takes time to explicitly explain what's happened in Gordon's absence, so there's still a sense of mystery and ambiguity.qbanknight said:
I was actually gonna use Ocarina of Time as an example of a sequel to a game that didn't need one story wise yet had the same characters (Link to the Past) but is quite honestly a better game all things considered (and that is saying a lot because LttP was fantastic). And then Majora's Mask was an example of what Yahtzee was talking about where the sequel was again not needed in regards to story yet had the same main character and some of the uncanny valley townspeople but was easily the weakest and worst zelda game (case and point: introduction of Tingle, entire game is timed, there is Tingle, if you dont know to play the song of time backwards trick combined with using the camera to save dungeon progress you can't beat the game, Tingle is in it) until those gameboy games that everyone has wiped from their memory (some nonsense about seasons and ages). However, Wind Waker again takes Ocarina of Time and creates from it a sequel that is actually a good game, if not better than the forerunner. But with Zelda games the true enemy is not the fans, it's Shigeru Miyamoto because he was quoted as saying "One thing about my game design is that I never try to look for what people want and then try to make that game design." Thus it is proven irrefutably that he is to blame for all the shitty nintendo sequals at large, not fans.Vivendel said:
Or developers should just have the good sense not to listen to them. Grow some balls, developers. Don't be pussies like Sucker Punch who decided to change new Cole (who apparently "looked like a douchebag") back to old Cole (who definitely looked like a douchebag) because fans cried a whole lot. Not that it will really make a difference because regardless of whether or not the character LOOKS like a douchebag, he always ACTED like a douchebag and thus is a douchebag regardless of appearance. So you might as well drop a few testicles and stick with the character design you wanted instead of bowing to whining fans.
I thought of that too, but when you consider that Wily gets away, that is leaving it open for a sequel. Now, maybe Mega Man 7...2xDouble said:
because at the end of Mega Man 6, Wily is finally captured and sent to jail, leaving less expectation of a sequel.
Source please. I don't believe that for a second. The Zelda series has been nothing but bowing to fans and them still being wankers as far as recent games go. The Wind Waker was too cartoony and nobody wanted Link to be a kid despite Link always having been a kid except in Zelda 2 and Ocarina of Time previously. So now we get Twilight Princes where Link is an adult and the style is not cartoon, and now it's too dark and waaaah it sucks. Also we thought The Wind Waker was so much better as it was nice and colorful; yes that's right, we like The Wind Waker now. So now they're going with an adult Link but more colorful style and the game isn't even out yet and people are bitching about the colors and such things. They should make it look more like Twilight Princes; yes we love that game now too.asbrandr said:
Zelda is an example of another franchise where the developers should tell the fans to shut the fuck up and make the game they want because fans will never be happy.
(For the record, I got The Wind Waker and Twilight Princes when they both came out. I loved them both then and I still love them both now. And Skyward Sword looks awesome.)