Part of the trouble is that our arguments to this effect get growned out by the twoway idiocy of oldschool (i.e. people my age - I started gaming in 1982) fans complaining that ecverything is graphics-yped v newschool who refuse to believe that anyone could be a fan of pre-2000s games due to anything but nostalgia.
I have no problem with console games per se. And plenty of console gamers LOVE their older console platforms. But it does seem to me to have bred a mentality of throw out the old games when the new console hits...or at least to consider those games 2nd-rate.
A lot of PC-games rate syndicate (released: 1993) and Ultima 7 (1995) as two of the greatest games EVER. Not just for their time, but EVER - even compared to modern masterpieces. And they aren't even oldschool - I still fire up Wizardry 4 (1987) for the challenge of the hardest crpg ever made (the 1st 3, starting in 1982, were my first games, but I'll admit they bring nothing that later games didn't do better).
Not to mention the golden years of 1998-2001 - those few years brought us Baldurs Gate 2, Planescape: Torment (do I need to say AGAIN that it's the greatest game-as-art ever made?), Deus Ex, Thief, Fallout 1-2, System Shock 1/2 (yes, that's 'shock', as in where 'Bioshock' comes from), Morrowind, Under a Killing Moon, Jagged Alliance 2 The Longest Journey...oh it brings tears to my eyes.
And it isn't even nostalgia - my nostalgia period was Wizardry 1-3, Ultima 1-5 - I was in my 20s by the time I started playing Planescape:Torment, The Longest Journey, Deus Ex etc.
I'd love to see straight-up graphical and technical upgrades of those games. Not style-changing remakes like FO3, where they transplant fallout's setting into an Elder Scroll's Game (NOT saying the final product wasn't good in its own right, but it wasn't an update of the originals - it was a fun action-rpg-exploration romp, rather than a moody, deadly, mysterious, stat-heavy, roleplaying (not action-rpg or LARPing, but geunine GURPS-guided roleplaying with choices+consequences, and major blowback if you tried to take on the local slave-trading order without a LOT of guns/backup) trek through the wastelands...ever closer to ground zero (shudder)).
Something worth noting on this topic:
Spiderweb software makes marvellous crpgs for those interested in action rpgs, rather than crpgs. AND he is starting to update his older games with new graphics, to make them accesible to modern computers!!!! (great move, in my opinion) - and the updated versions are still dirt cheap. His popular series is Avernum, but I can't urge you strongly enough to play the Geneforge series instead. It is massively superior, and the only reason why Avernum sells more is that it is less original, and originality seems to scare people for some reason. Geneforge is, in my opinion, the greatest crpg series made in the past 10 years. Including Bioware and Bethesda.
They are indie, so don't expect much shiny graphics, but they are AWESOME. The game might start looking like there are your standard few factions, but as it goes on there are factions within factions, leaders to promote or demote within factions, ideologies to push, and many many possible outcomes. It's tech-based, but with magic effects, and a strong theme (as the series goes on) about weapon proliferation. Oh, and some...cannisters. Like much weapons proliferation, they'll give you power...at a price. As does introducing shaping tech to those who might now control it responsibly (by the last game, shaping tech has spread everywhere and is threatening to tear apart the world). On the other hand, if you don't spread the shaping tech (the tech by which new creatures and ALL technology is made), you are basically acquiescing to the worst form of slavery and abuse (later, more 'benevolent dictatorship' options may appear, especially in later games as factions start splitting from factions).
There are NO dungeon-crawls. Instead, one faction's city/quest-hub will be another faction's dungeon, and the aim will be to conquer your opposing faction's cities/quest-hubs (oh...and there's usually a surprise twist where some 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th party jumps in, changing the endgame requirements). There are always at least 2 or 3 paths though each area of the game - some maps (there is an overland map system where you choose which submaps to travel through) might be near-impossible for those with low tech-skills, others might be combat fests, others might favour diplomacy-heavy characters, others might favour stealth. Town maps (i.e. the places that would be quest-hubs if you were in their faction) are impervious to direct assault unless you are very high level, but almost always have some trick that allow an earlier take-down (such as sneaking past the inner patrols, or feigning loyalty to that faction, then cutting the power and letting their 'creations' (the game is about genetic modification) free to rampage, with you taking the town in the chaos...or of course just going the time-favoured stealth+assassinate-the-leader option
My advice is start with the last 2 games. They have more choice+consequence, and more factional manipulations than any other game I've seen (MUCH MUCH more...including professional studies like Bioware and Bethesda - the guy has been making a full-time living from this stuff for decades now, so he knows what he is doing). If you really want backstory, start with Geneforge 2 (there are 7, and they start getting BRILLIANT as of 5 or 6) - it will give you the please of seeing minor NPCs rising the ranks as the story progresses, swapping sides as zealots become moderates when confronted by the reality of battle, and sympathisers become hardliners when they see the damage wrought by uncontrolled shaping tech.
Oh, did I mention that I liked Spiderweb software's Geneforge series?
Stay away from his newest game Avadon. It's not bad, but it's basically an indie version of Baldurs Gate 2. Still a type of game we don't see anymore, and MUCH prettier than his other games, but it lacks the sheer 'gazillion options for progression, do anything and be rewarded for ingenuity, ultra non-linear, one faction's quest-hub is another's dungeon-crawl zone, etc', replacing that with a linear set of 'go here, then here, then here' progression. Not bad, but lacks the crazy brilliance of the later Geneforge games
