Extra Punctuation: Roleplaying Homosexual in Dragon Age 2

[bzombo]

Not everyone is homophobic for wanting more defined roles. I wanted things more like Origins: some straight, some gay, and a bisexual character or two. Does that make me homophobic? The author sure seems to imply that, which I don't like very much.

 

[CardinalPiggles]

in dragon age: origins, i had a gay relationship with the elf dude, (even though im not gay, he came onto me and i just accepted it lol), but he turned on me so i had to kill him . i was quite upset by it really lol.

also that leliana ***** wouldnt start a relationship with me, so i was quite mad she wasnt interested (this was before the elf dude).

cant wait for DA2 to go down in price so i can get it. lets see who tickles my fancy

 

[lleihsad]

I haven't played DA2 yet, nor really gotten into the relationship aspect of either Mass Effect or DA:O.
Yahtzee mentioned he went with the monogamy option, is there a 'legitimate' bi/polygamy option in the game? Since the monogamy-is-the-only-true-way thing in our society is mainly because of the dominating religions in the past millenia or so it could make sense in a fantasy world with a very different history than ours that no such restrictions would have been made up or enforced. So, how do your other mates react if you keep on pursuing new relationships after getting it on with someone? Will they always get mad if they find out or are there dialogue options to make your other mates accept that you're screwing around with your entire party?

Technically, the romances are exclusive to that specific character, but Dragon Age 2 is less hardcore about enforcing it and some interesting loopholes appear.

For those who've already completed the story or don't give a damn, a lengthy example with moderate spoilers follows:
Isabela's romance results in sex before it's actually considered a "romance", and you have to pursue it afterwords and not let her keep it in the "friends with benefits" zone. I obliged her desire for shallow hedonism, and moved on to romance Merill, with whom I completed the romance arc. Ordinarily, this would be simply aborting one chain of events and beginning another but there were several writing elements that broke the mold

1. Isabela and Merill are very affectionate towards each other, Isabela even brazenly asking how the sex was after the relationship shift.
2. No "choose, you cheater" event ever happened. Other characters still commented on both romances.
3. Isabela (in the game path I took) asks Hawke to join her new pirate crew. if you object that you need to stick with your love interest, she suggests bringing them along.
4. At the end, Varric talks about how everyone ultimately parting ways with Hawke except your lover. Bizarrely, he went with Isabela.

This implies the grim, everything-is-now-broken ending is followed by the high seas adventures of a rollicking lesbian pirate trio. I kind of feel like I defaced someone's artwork.

 

[MpSai]

I had something similar happen to me with Origins. I'm a lesbian, and so I normally go for girl on girl romances when I can in a game. But I had been planning on romancing Morrigan with my male Warden playthrough because you can't get her as a woman, and, well, Leliana gushing about SHOES tends to turn most people off.

I ended up romancing Zevran instead. It just sort of happened, he's such an interesting character when you get down to it. And now I have a big fangirly crush on him. I was retardedly excited for his brief appearance in DA2 even if his face looks damn weird now like all the other elves.

 

[Psychedeliasmith]

The 'I had to beat up gay guys who hit on me' thing blows my mind when it crops up. When I was younger (in the 90s!) I just wouldn't even dream of being openly gay, never mind aggressively pursuing an obviously homophobic man. So I guess that's progress! Or is it some kind of weird abuse fantasy. I guess I'll never know!

Anyway, what DA2 really needs is a character like Wynne to follow you around, constantly passing judgement on what a slapper you really are. That was hilarious in DAO, and I was bitterly disappointed that the Mother character just stood in the hall whining about the fact I had boffed the staff. Even after I'd moved firmly onto Anders, she would still only say 'Uuuuuh, an elven slave, I hope you know what you're doing.' Such a shame.

 

[sarahvait]

When I said "hit" perhaps a better word would be "aggressive hit". There's a big difference. If a guy walked up to me and said something, like a compliment (the kind you would tell a woman). I'd tell him I'm not gay. If he asked me out I'd also tell him I'm not gay but the answer this time might come across as mean. If it involves anything sexual, I get in his face. If he won't take it back, I might walk away... Unless he was already annoying. You see? I treat gays a little different but that doesn't mean I go looking to "bash me some gays."

And besides, scientific studies mean jack-shit. I'm serious. I don't trust anything a scientist tells me until I know who funds him.

Women like confident men (and those who don't usually turn lesbian or hook up with some wimp). Unfortunately, where I live, women are not like the mystical women on escapist. They're actually real. They are the ones I'm hanging out with so their opinion actually matters. Women like power, so when a homosexual male tries flirting (in a rather sexual way) with me they watch. If I mumble something about not being gay, they walk away. If I tell him (in a loud voice) I'm not a frickin fag (pardon the vulgar phrasing), the women see me as more of a man. Maybe that only happens in college, I really don't know.

But calling me gay is a really lame attack strategy. Just thought I'd say that before more people use the same "he hates gays, must be gay" line.

Oh and by the way, if you really wanna be more "tolerant", tolerate my homophobia. Chow kids!

Well, I guess that kind of makes more sense. But these "women" you're surrounded by? The way you describe them, they sound like shallow harpies. Bleh. And only happening in college? I went to college in Indiana, or as I like to refer to it as, the northern-most southern state in the US. We grow corn and like Nascar, for Gods sake. I don't really recall things like that happening while I was there.

I don't know, in the end it's none of my business, I know that. I've never met you; hell you could be someone I could be friends with. I guess the idea of you feeling the need to "treat the gays a little different" is just a little sad to me. Not a "how pathetic" kind of sad, but it actually makes me emotionally sad. Again, I don't know why, it's a game forum and I shouldn't be investing this much time or energy into this. I'm just one of those silly people who really likes all kinds of people (despite my harpy women comment), and wishes that everyone could get along regardless of sexuality, race, religion, blah, blah, blah, you know the drill. Sunshine and unicorns farting cupcakes and all that.

Anyhow, I also like to understand where people are coming from, and you've clarified your position a bit more. I'll leave you be now good sir. Cheers.

"Mystical women on the Escapist"? Am I dragon or something now? @_@

 

[OldRat]

Well now. This might just be Yahtzee's finest words so far. I'm not an entirely straight man, I somewhat pitch for both teams (meaning I consider women first and men second, but disregard neither) but this was something I so very well recognize. Really, I kind of recognize myself in this text. Other than the fact I might want to go farther with it and don't really find the idea in any way bad.
There's nothing wrong, really, with recognizing a man as handsome. That doesn't make you any less straight or any more gay. And neither does recognizing that you might, potentially, be attracted to a person of the same sex in a way not entirely platonic, even if it doesn't go into anything physical. Personalities, after all, aren't strictly tied to gender. And call me a soft, naive wuss, but personality trumps body.

Really, I'm not good with this word business, but I guess what I'm trying to say, is: I salute you, Yahtzee Croshaw, for this moved and touched me, even if only a little bit. And I salute you for being straight enough to not stress about it.
For you are a man more certain of himself than many. That, more than anything, is commendable.

I don't know, in the end it's none of my business, I know that. I've never met you; hell you could be someone I could be friends with. I guess the idea of you feeling the need to "treat the gays a little different" is just a little sad to me. Not a "how pathetic" kind of sad, but it actually makes me emotionally sad. Again, I don't know why, it's a game forum and I shouldn't be investing this much time or energy into this. I'm just one of those silly people who really likes all kinds of people (despite my harpy women comment), and wishes that everyone could get along regardless of sexuality, race, religion, blah, blah, blah, you know the drill. Sunshine and unicorns farting cupcakes and all that.

While I'm in no way a master of matters of the mind, I'd daresay that sadness comes from, indeed, wanting people to get along. And you know what? That's the good kind of sadness, for all the right reasons. Of course, sadness in and of itself isn't really nice, but at least it's sadness for a good reason. A reason I can very well respect.
I salute you as well.

 

[Prince Regent]

Well this is the best extra punctuation ever, funny till the last letter.

 

[Micalas]

When I said "hit" perhaps a better word would be "aggressive hit". There's a big difference. If a guy walked up to me and said something, like a compliment (the kind you would tell a woman). I'd tell him I'm not gay. If he asked me out I'd also tell him I'm not gay but the answer this time might come across as mean. If it involves anything sexual, I get in his face. If he won't take it back, I might walk away... Unless he was already annoying. You see? I treat gays a little different but that doesn't mean I go looking to "bash me some gays."

And besides, scientific studies mean jack-shit. I'm serious. I don't trust anything a scientist tells me until I know who funds him.

Women like confident men (and those who don't usually turn lesbian or hook up with some wimp). Unfortunately, where I live, women are not like the mystical women on escapist. They're actually real. They are the ones I'm hanging out with so their opinion actually matters. Women like power, so when a homosexual male tries flirting (in a rather sexual way) with me they watch. If I mumble something about not being gay, they walk away. If I tell him (in a loud voice) I'm not a frickin fag (pardon the vulgar phrasing), the women see me as more of a man. Maybe that only happens in college, I really don't know.

But calling me gay is a really lame attack strategy. Just thought I'd say that before more people use the same "he hates gays, must be gay" line.

Oh and by the way, if you really wanna be more "tolerant", tolerate my homophobia. Chow kids!

Social conservatism is a plague on society. Gotta love the people who say "tolerate my intolerance." There's absolutely no reason to tolerate a person's bigotry. Let's look at it like this:

Intolerance of gays: suppression of rights
Tolerance of gays: furthering of rights to the point of equality.

Maybe we should start tolerating intolerance towards blacks or jews or maybe white males. They don't deserve equality either. Fuck it man. Let's go for it. Do you care? I don't care. And about women liking you because you just called a guy a "fricken fag" tells me that you're either in high school where petty shit like that is still funny or you hang out with Sarah Palin.

 

[hecticpicnic]

That last bit was actually rather adorable to be honest. I was actually thinking back to that Extra Credits episode about Diversity in games, and was thinking that games would be more and more interesting if they actually went out of their way to do this kind of thing.

Reading this article, it seems that was this games apparent grace.

I agree completely i smirked all the way through.
Personally i think Anders wasn't that great a gay character(a bit flirty)
and while we're on the subject that guy in the first game(can't remember his name)was kinda lame too.I like the lesbian character in the first game(know her name but can't spell it)she was really ,sweet but kinda annoying when ever the chantry was involved.None of these caputer the awkwardness of first time gay..courtship, the inter-species relation ships in mnass effect 2 did these quite well.

 

[Micalas]

I agree completely i smirked all the way through.
Personally i think Anders wasn't that great a gay character(a bit flirty)
and while we're on the subject that guy in the first game(can't remember his name)was kinda lame too.I like the lesbian character in the first game(know her name but can't spell it)she was really ,sweet but kinda annoying when ever the chantry was involved.None of these caputer the awkwardness of first time gay..courtship, the inter-species relation ships in mnass effect 2 did these quite well.

Zevran and Leliana, respectively.

 

[jawakiller]

Social conservatism is a plague on society. Gotta love the people who say "tolerate my intolerance." There's absolutely no reason to tolerate a person's bigotry. Let's look at it like this:

Intolerance of gays: suppression of rights
Tolerance of gays: furthering of rights to the point of equality.

Maybe we should start tolerating intolerance towards blacks or jews or maybe white males. They don't deserve equality either. Fuck it man. Let's go for it. Do you care? I don't care. And about women liking you because you just called a guy a "fricken fag" tells me that you're either in high school where petty shit like that is still funny or you hang out with Sarah Palin.

A homosexual can't be compared to a Jew or a black guy. Homosexuality isn't a race. Yeah. And shut up with the leftist shit. You don't know much about it so just stop.

And creating a profile just to say that? Fail.

 

[Micalas]

A homosexual can't be compared to a Jew or a black guy. Homosexuality isn't a race. Yeah. And shut up with the leftist shit. You don't know much about it so just stop.

And creating a profile just to say that? Fail.

Leftist shit? I was unaware that championing equality was a leftist quality. Ok so you don't like the race comparison. Let's go with women since it's not a race. (knows you're going to saying "It's not a gender either!") I'm actually a libertarian. If I were a leftist I wouldn't have specified social conservatism as a plague on society. I would have said conservatism in general.

Also, I didn't create a profile to say that. I haven't been posting here long but I had 6 other posts before I responded to you.

 

[Psychedeliasmith]

A homosexual can't be compared to a Jew or a black guy. Homosexuality isn't a race. Yeah. And shut up with the leftist shit. You don't know much about it so just stop.

And creating a profile just to say that? Fail.

I don't feel that you understand what the word 'compared' means, given your belief that it's not possible to compare one thing to another. And you ended your post with 'Fail.' That's quite sad.

 

[Dobs141]

Well, that was nice.

Wonder if Bioware will put gay relations in Mass Effect 3? It'd look pretty bad if they didn't, actually.

 

[Muspelheim]

Social conservatism is a plague on society. Gotta love the people who say "tolerate my intolerance." There's absolutely no reason to tolerate a person's bigotry. Let's look at it like this:

Intolerance of gays: suppression of rights
Tolerance of gays: furthering of rights to the point of equality.

Maybe we should start tolerating intolerance towards blacks or jews or maybe white males. They don't deserve equality either. Fuck it man. Let's go for it. Do you care? I don't care. And about women liking you because you just called a guy a "fricken fag" tells me that you're either in high school where petty shit like that is still funny or you hang out with Sarah Palin.

A homosexual can't be compared to a Jew or a black guy. Homosexuality isn't a race. Yeah. And shut up with the leftist shit. You don't know much about it so just stop.

And creating a profile just to say that? Fail.

Perhaps it is fail on my part as well to create a profile for this, as well, then. But why on Earth not...

What exactly is it that is leftist in arguing that it's wrong to injure other human beings only for the purpose of appearing manly and secure, which is an odd method of choice since it only loudly and clearly exclaims the opposite.
It seems your earlier arguement was asking for people to view the issue from a broader perspective, which is once again very odd since you are doing nothing of the sort yourself. When an opposing arguement appears, you dismiss it as "leftist", and asks them to shut up. That is hypocritical to quite frankly embarassing levels.

Furthermore, you expect your senseless hatred, funded in nothing but insecurity and presumtions, to be tolerated. You ask of us to find it perfectly reasonable to assault someone just to impress the ladies. The answer is no.

And that is NOT a masculine, impressive trait. Spilling out your anger and fear like a child is not something you will, or should, be admired for. A real man can remain a decent human being when being proposed something he does not want. He can deny the offer politely, and then carrying on being an adult. And he will have a modicum of control over his anger, and will know better than unleashing it on people who did nothing to deserve it. And a real woman will not be impressed by someone acting like a man-child, using violence to cover up his own insecurity.

Like it have been requested before in this thread; grow. If nothing else, to avoid an assault-charge further down the line. Or someone who will fight back. And if even that is difficult to accept, then do it to experience what TRUE respect is.

 

[Revolutionary]

"old-fashioned, monogamous old queen."
Lol, Yahtzee your brilliant, I wish more critics could take homosexuality as seriously as you.

 

[jawakiller]

Leftist shit? I was unaware that championing equality was a leftist quality. Ok so you don't like the race comparison. Let's go with women since it's not a race. (knows you're going to saying "It's not a gender either!") I'm actually a libertarian. If I were a leftist I wouldn't have specified social conservatism as a plague on society. I would have said conservatism in general.

Also, I didn't create a profile to say that. I haven't been posting here long but I had 6 other posts before I responded to you.

Oh, my bad. And I actually agree with you on libertarianism. (I know, so hard to believe a homophobic would agree with you) And I'm sorry about snapping at you. I'm just getting tired of people posting the same arguments against me. Even when I post a counter argument people still comment on my original post. And repeating myself is getting really old.

Perhaps it is fail on my part as well to create a profile for this, as well, then. But why on Earth not...

What exactly is it that is leftist in arguing that it's wrong to injure other human beings only for the purpose of appearing manly and secure, which is an odd method of choice since it only loudly and clearly exclaims the opposite.
It seems your earlier arguement was asking for people to view the issue from a broader perspective, which is once again very odd since you are doing nothing of the sort yourself. When an opposing arguement appears, you dismiss it as "leftist", and asks them to shut up. That is hypocritical to quite frankly embarassing levels.

Furthermore, you expect your senseless hatred, funded in nothing but insecurity and presumtions, to be tolerated. You ask of us to find it perfectly reasonable to assault someone just to impress the ladies. The answer is no.

And that is NOT a masculine, impressive trait. Spilling out your anger and fear like a child is not something you will, or should, be admired for. A real man can remain a decent human being when being proposed something he does not want. He can deny the offer politely, and then carrying on being an adult. And he will have a modicum of control over his anger, and will know better than unleashing it on people who did nothing to deserve it. And a real woman will not be impressed by someone acting like a man-child, using violence to cover up his own insecurity.

Like it have been requested before in this thread; grow. If nothing else, to avoid an assault-charge further down the line. Or someone who will fight back. And if even that is difficult to accept, then do it to experience what TRUE respect is.

I have already explained this but seeing how you insist on me explaining myself, I will.
I DON'T GET INTO A FIGHT WITH EVERY HOMOSEXUAL I MEET.
Goddamn, why does nobody get that? Here's a chart to help you out.
A comment. - A "sure whatever."
A compliment. - "Not gay dude, sorry."(if i know he swings that way)... If not. What?!
A flirtatious comment or subtle innuendo. - "I'm not into guys. (maybe a bit harshly said but whatever)
A sexual comment. - "Fuck off!" (seriously, thats the norm)
A sexual pass. - I get in his face and tell him to back off.
If he refuses... I start a fight.

This is not gay-bashing or fag-hunting (like in highschool), this is a socially created behavior. I grew up in a violent neighborhood in my teen-aged years and I there learned how to kick ass. I'm not kidding. I definitely know what a real fight is. When I get into a fight with an offending party, they always fight back (and they usually go at it in a very cocky manner because I'm not a heavy-weight). So its more of a Napoleon complex than anything.

And then there's the whole female thing. Most chicks are attracted by power. I already posted this but I guess I'll have to say it again. I DON'T LIKE THE FACT THAT I HAVE TO PROVE MYSELF BUT I DON'T MAKE UP THE FUCKING RULES. There, I said it again. And the toleration bit was me being sarcastic, I really don't care if you tolerate me or not. And I don't anything illegal so you have very little basis for your argument. Morals, apparently, mean dick so you can't use that either.

All you have is the "hey you hate gays, you must be gay" argument. Oh, and the "you're a childish boar." that one too.

I don't feel that you understand what the word 'compared' means, given your belief that it's not possible to compare one thing to another. And you ended your post with 'Fail.' That's quite sad.

You're talking to a literature major, I know what words to use. And thank you for posting a comment that contributes absolutely nothing to this argument. All these serious posts were really getting to me, thanks for lightening it up a little.

 

[BabyRaptor]

Interesting read!

It's lovely to know that you "pity" those who think differently from you...

Anyone who thinks negatively of others because of how they were born deserves to be pitied.

 

[beema]

Awesome article yahtzee. I wish more people were as open and fair as you've just been.
If I'm not mistaken, this is one of the first major games allowing you a choice of sexuality, right? I guess Mass Effect had it too? (although when i played I somehow managed to completely avoid any romantic subplots)
I hope more games continue to give these kind of options. Gay people play video games too. Although weren't some gay people up in arms about this game too? I haven't been following the story on it.

That being said, I cant say I've ever had a gay character in my experience with RPG's... Hmmm.

You ever play ff7? Pretty sure Cloud was gay