Extra Punctuation: Roleplaying Homosexual in Dragon Age 2

BehattedWanderer

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Jun 24, 2009
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Well said, as usual. But you know the one set of relationships almost no one has touched on? The Hawke siblings relationship. Nowhere in the later story if Beth was in the deep roads when Anders was not is there any hint of a "in memorial" option. Imagine this--Hawke, fiercely siding with the mages, in memory of his/her father and sister, instead of coincidentally doing so after the dramatic decision-making instance in the game. Not for Anders, not for Merrill, not to win friendships/rivalries, but to prevent what happened in their own family from happening again. Not once does that option come up.
 

20thCenturyBoy

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Mar 25, 2011
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Jonabob87 said:
20thCenturyBoy said:
Jonabob87 said:
Interesting read!

It's lovely to know that you "pity" those who think differently from you...
"Those" being homophobes or any individual who sees homosexual romance as disgusting or unnerving.
To be a homophobe is to fear gayness, or being gay yourself. I'm not afraid of either of these things.

If you're meaning disliking gay people? Wrong again, gay people are as the term indicated "People who are gay". Still people and still worthy of every consideration you or me is worthy of of.

To be opposed to homosexual conduct or lovemaking makes me neither unpleasant nor insecure. It means I see something and don't like it.

If I saw something I didn't like and disliked the person for doing it that would be a whole 'nother story.
What, exactly, is wrong about homosexual conduct in video games aside from earning a bit of your ire? Too used to traditional hetero romance dominating the medium that this comes off as a bit of a culture clash? We're the twenty first century, values are updating, we should open new venues in all forms of pop culture.

Maybe it's because as a member of the LGBT community I see nothing inherently wrong with two fictional characters enjoying love and devotion on the screen, just as I see nothing inherently wrong in men and women pairing up for similar purposes. What's your reason?
 

Formica Archonis

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Nov 13, 2009
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Awww, that was sweet. One of the more warm-and-fuzzy things Yahtzee's written, as far as I can recall.
 

ImmortalDrifter

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Jan 6, 2011
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Only thing that confuses me is that Anders was straight in awakening, then they just decided to "make" him gay. The retcon is killing me.
 

Unesh52

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May 27, 2010
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I had a similar experience in Origins (though I stupidly rented that title and sent it back in a rush of frustration -- it's been too long to go back...) I originally actively tried to have a gay thing with all the guys in my party. I flirted with everyone really, but I wanted to see how they would handle gay relationships. Especially if it was with Sten. Ultimately it was only that one elf who responded to me, but then... well, when we were getting to the point that it was going to be a romance between us, I started having doubts about his intentions. He was into me, but it seemed like it was all about sex; just a bit of sport he had with other guys. Eventually, I found myself falling for Morrigan. She was smart and callous, but every once in a while you could get a peek through the clouds and see a girl that just wanted some company and love after being isolated, demonized, and kept under the watchful eye of her odd mother for her whole life. I never got to see the romance through to fruition, but I sure as hell wanted to.

Ultimately I found my interactions with my party members to be fulfilling and my emotional attachments to them sincere. My friendship with Alistair, my affection for Morrigan, my contempt for Sten, my theological disagreements with Liliana (which I had eventually gave up as absurd -- I was projecting my IRL atheism into a world where I can walk up and talk to Gods and shoot lighting out of my hands and shit), and my boyish contentment with my warhound all felt authentic. It was rewarding just to walk around camp.

Shame I ate dicks so hard in combat. I might have finished if I could walk ten steps without getting myself killed.
 

cainx10a

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May 17, 2008
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Too bad I couldn't kill that sob after he betrayed my trust. Since I didn't have a healer. Hate how the story ruins the meta-game.
 

drisky

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Mar 16, 2009
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Sniper Team 4 said:
I was going to ask how he handled the end game, but I see he covered that. I wasn't interested in Anders, and man was I angry at the end. I can only imagine someone pursuing a romance with him would be even more upset.
On a personal note, I don't think I like Anders being gay. (Throws in quick self-defense speech here), but because in Awakening, there was no hint of it. He seemed to be solely focused on the the ladies, so much so that it got to the point where I wanted to tell him to shut up. Him suddenly being gay was a bit of a jerking turn for me, breaking his character a bit. If it had been any other character I wouldn't have even noticed, but Anders I went, "Wait. Since when are you gay?"
I'm going to quote Torchwood for this one, when Yanto's sister confronted him over over his relationship with Jack Harkness.
"How long (have you known you were gay?)"
"That's not it. Its not guys, it's just him."

I thought this was a great romantic line and it can work the same way for Anders. Just because he didn't hint that he liked guys in Awakining, doesn't mean there isn't a man out there for him. Hawke can just have something special about him that gravitates him more than any other character previously seen. Just because he didn't hint it before, doesn't mean it can't be there with out being forced.
 

Unesh52

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Jonabob87 said:
Interesting read!

It's lovely to know that you "pity" those who think differently from you...
I think the pity is directed at the people who want to get guys fired for writing something that didn't appeal to them, especially when that content was not a dominant part of the experience. Or even a part at all, for the most part, if you didn't want it to be.
 

LadyRhian

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May 13, 2010
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Sniper Team 4 said:
I was going to ask how he handled the end game, but I see he covered that. I wasn't interested in Anders, and man was I angry at the end. I can only imagine someone pursuing a romance with him would be even more upset.
On a personal note, I don't think I like Anders being gay. (Throws in quick self-defense speech here), but because in Awakening, there was no hint of it. He seemed to be solely focused on the the ladies, so much so that it got to the point where I wanted to tell him to shut up. Him suddenly being gay was a bit of a jerking turn for me, breaking his character a bit. If it had been any other character I wouldn't have even noticed, but Anders I went, "Wait. Since when are you gay?"
Maybe it was intended to be that these characters fell in love with Anders the person and didn't care what sex he/she was. You know, "Normally, I'm completely hetero, but for you..."
 

LadyRhian

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May 13, 2010
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drisky said:
Sniper Team 4 said:
I was going to ask how he handled the end game, but I see he covered that. I wasn't interested in Anders, and man was I angry at the end. I can only imagine someone pursuing a romance with him would be even more upset.
On a personal note, I don't think I like Anders being gay. (Throws in quick self-defense speech here), but because in Awakening, there was no hint of it. He seemed to be solely focused on the the ladies, so much so that it got to the point where I wanted to tell him to shut up. Him suddenly being gay was a bit of a jerking turn for me, breaking his character a bit. If it had been any other character I wouldn't have even noticed, but Anders I went, "Wait. Since when are you gay?"
I'm going to quote Torchwood for this one, when Yanto's sister confronted him over over his relationship with Jack Harkness.
"How long (have you known you were gay?)"
"That's not it. Its not guys, it's just him."

I thought this was a great romantic line and it can work the same way for Anders. Just because he didn't hint that he liked guys in Awakining, doesn't mean there isn't a man out there for him. Hawke can just have something special about him that gravitates him more than any other character previously seen. Just because he didn't hint it before, doesn't mean it can't be there with out being forced.
GMTA. Aka "Gay only for you."
 

mental_looney

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Apr 29, 2008
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He's hawkesexual like the rest, but cheesy as romances are I did enjoy that romance with my whole 2 mages against the world set up female hawke though, awesome read really made me smile :)

Oh Sebastian shouldn't count as a romance all he does is get embarrassed and either run away or suggest you become a nun, sadly not acceptable for my hawke
 

0over0

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Dec 30, 2006
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So, Yahztee, does this strong reaction and emotional attachment to a character in a game make you want to perhaps revisit your review of DA2?
There are different aspects to every game (and everything else) obviously. But clearly the character development and story in DA2 are better--maybe only in hindsight--than you thought at the time of playing.
And don't forget, in order for you to build a strong attachment to an NPC, you must have invested yourself in and be able to strongly identify with your playable character (Hawke, in this case). So though you mentioned in your review a disconnect with Hawke, it seems that disconnect wasn't so great as to prohibit building that character fully in your mind and remembering his adventures fondly.


Personally, I thought those two aspects were excellent. Gameplay was relatively average--some good, some bad. Art was excellent--until it was overused.

Mostly, I play RPGs for the story and characters--and so I really enjoyed DA2. It wasn't necessarily the way I would do it, but I very much enjoyed that they took a different route and made it work.

Anyway, good article. I greatly appreciate that, almost uniquely amongst large developers, Bioware focuses on story and character so much in their games and for me at least, they didn't disappoint with DA2.
 

hdboomy

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Apr 16, 2009
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I usually play female characters in RPGs, though I am myself a male. I was amazed in ME1 how much I latched onto Shepard's romance with Liara. It really struck a personal note with me. I'm glad to see Yahtzee address such relationships, as I see them as one of the strongest emotions I've experienced through video games.
 

Ailia

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Nov 11, 2010
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This made my day. When Yatzee mentioned he'd done Anders in his video last week I expected it was just a passing thing, for the story if nothing else... it's really heartening to know that he took it more seriously than that, and actually enjoyed it.
 

Optimystic

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Sep 24, 2008
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Bravo, Yahtzee. A fantastic read!

And was that a subtle hint that perhaps Pokemon is next on the review block?
 

Crunchy English

Victim of a Savage Neck-bearding
Aug 20, 2008
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Anyone who has ever played "Gay Chicken" has no reason to be upset at DA2 or any other such folly. Honestly, Homophobe is well on it's way to being "racist' in the common vernacular. And yet, all these decades later, Racism exists (and thrives) too...

People will always be stupid, but we should at least force them to innovate.
 

YawningAngel

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Dec 22, 2010
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monnes said:
My issue with the love interests in Dragon Age 2 wasn't that there were too many gays, it was that all of them were bisexual. They are clear-written characters you're not supposed to make decisions for, but still all of them are bisexuall. I find this a bit odd.

Also, there's actually only 2 female love interests, and counting day 1 dlc, there's 3 male ones.

Although this is a bit besides the point, I felt the characters were pretty badly written, with the exception of Varric, and possibly Aveline (who is not a love interest).

Also, I might have been imagining things, but I felt Anders and Fenris were both pretty sexually aggressive, which didn't really seem to fit with their personalities.
I believe that the backstory changes according to your character's gender: they aren't all bisexual.
 

TwistedEllipses

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Nov 18, 2008
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ZP said:
By my count, as a male protagonist, there are three girls you can mess around with, and only two boys who are up for sausage sandwiches.
Well, only two girls, you can flirt with Aveline, but she's too oblivious to notice and hooks up with a guardsman regardless.

You can never really play as yourself in RPGs because quite frankly, who would volunteer to go to be the great sacrificial hero. You also don't start with a blank slate, you have backstory and family which obviously aren't your own. So why not roleplay as a girl, someone of a different sexual persuasion or ultra-paragon/renegade?