Extra Punctuation: What is Mature Anyway?

[Azaraxzealot]

well i agree that the only reason kids even WANT to get their grubby digits on "mature" games is BECAUSE they're rated "mature" and because we tell them it's bad.

So if we told them "fine, you wanna play it? whatever." and just got rid of a rating system altogether it would more than likely discourage them from wanting to do it so much

 

[bombadilillo]

Fully agree with that Last para. And that "Decapitation=fine, woman's breast=Save the CHILDREN!" really needs to go away. I mean, I know cultural habits die hard...but it's been what, 200 Fucking years since the 1800's. Can we PLEASE put irrational prudeness behind us already?

While were at if can you stop using that frame for the arguement? There is a big difference between preforming impossible comically overly gory kills and Kratos fucking 2 chicks in a minigame.

Its more then "just tits, get over it"

Why is there a difference, exactly?

Wow, being deliberately obtuse. Good angle.

No, I'm honestly kind of curious about your mindset. What's the big difference (that you apparently think should be obvious to others) between gratuitous sex and gratuitous violence?

Theres a reason the coyote gets smashed with a giant mallet instead of the Roadrunner whipping its cock out and fucking him. If you cant see the difference...I dont know how to explain it to you.

No, cartoon violence =/= explicit sex. It would also be off-putting of Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck re-enacted an explicitly violent movie like Saw. OTOH, we see nothing wrong with a "cartoonfied" version of courtship behavior:

I think the problem is that you think of all depictions of sexual behavior as explicit depictions of sexual intercourse, which ignores stuff like courtship behaviors, etc. So in cartoons we depict consequence-free violent mischief and consequence-free flirtation, whereas in God of War we depict stylized, non-explicit (the definition of explicit violence being something out of a torture movie) violence, and stylized, non-explicit sex.

At what point did I saw I saw all sexual behavior like that? Nice try, the original complaint was CLEARLY about framing the argument as "some tits=SAVE THE CHILDREN" So go back and figure out whats being discussed before you make your strawman argument.

And which video game has realistic violence? Were talking about MK mostly which has a guy kcik someones head off, turn into a dragon...Very realistic.

 

[bombadilillo]

Fully agree with that Last para. And that "Decapitation=fine, woman's breast=Save the CHILDREN!" really needs to go away. I mean, I know cultural habits die hard...but it's been what, 200 Fucking years since the 1800's. Can we PLEASE put irrational prudeness behind us already?

While were at if can you stop using that frame for the arguement? There is a big difference between preforming impossible comically overly gory kills and Kratos fucking 2 chicks in a minigame.

Its more then "just tits, get over it"

Why is there a difference, exactly?

Wow, being deliberately obtuse. Good angle.

No, I'm honestly kind of curious about your mindset. What's the big difference (that you apparently think should be obvious to others) between gratuitous sex and gratuitous violence?

Theres a reason the coyote gets smashed with a giant mallet instead of the Roadrunner whipping its cock out and fucking him. If you cant see the difference...I dont know how to explain it to you.

Except the coyote doesnt show realistically his entire body crushed into a massive pulp, as his intestines spill out, his blood covers the ground, and you watch the inside of his skull, as well as his bowels emptying on the floor. Yeah, realistic image makes it sound bad doesnt it? We're not discussing cookie cuttered violence here. That mallet to the head in the kids eyes is like a fist to the shoulder.
No one is asking for sex to be taken less seriously than violence, but violence is considered better than an act of love.

I do see what your saying. Perhaps violence is simply easier to cartoonify? If thats a valid description. Its easy to over-the-top gore to where its out of that realistic zone and pointless. Thats harder to do with sex.

 

[ice1985]

Fully agree with that Last para. And that "Decapitation=fine, woman's breast=Save the CHILDREN!" really needs to go away. I mean, I know cultural habits die hard...but it's been what, 200 Fucking years since the 1800's. Can we PLEASE put irrational prudeness behind us already?

While were at if can you stop using that frame for the arguement? There is a big difference between preforming impossible comically overly gory kills and Kratos fucking 2 chicks in a minigame.

Its more then "just tits, get over it"

Why is there a difference, exactly?

Wow, being deliberately obtuse. Good angle.

No, I'm honestly kind of curious about your mindset. What's the big difference (that you apparently think should be obvious to others) between gratuitous sex and gratuitous violence?

Theres a reason the coyote gets smashed with a giant mallet instead of the Roadrunner whipping its cock out and fucking him. If you cant see the difference...I dont know how to explain it to you.

Gratuitous sex is bad because society says it's bad? There has to be an explanation.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Fully agree with that Last para. And that "Decapitation=fine, woman's breast=Save the CHILDREN!" really needs to go away. I mean, I know cultural habits die hard...but it's been what, 200 Fucking years since the 1800's. Can we PLEASE put irrational prudeness behind us already?

While were at if can you stop using that frame for the arguement? There is a big difference between preforming impossible comically overly gory kills and Kratos fucking 2 chicks in a minigame.

Its more then "just tits, get over it"

Why is there a difference, exactly?

Wow, being deliberately obtuse. Good angle.

No, I'm honestly kind of curious about your mindset. What's the big difference (that you apparently think should be obvious to others) between gratuitous sex and gratuitous violence?

Theres a reason the coyote gets smashed with a giant mallet instead of the Roadrunner whipping its cock out and fucking him. If you cant see the difference...I dont know how to explain it to you.

No, cartoon violence =/= explicit sex. It would also be off-putting of Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck re-enacted an explicitly violent movie like Saw. OTOH, we see nothing wrong with a "cartoonfied" version of courtship behavior:

Image snipped

I think the problem is that you think of all depictions of sexual behavior as explicit depictions of sexual intercourse, which ignores stuff like courtship behaviors, etc. So in cartoons we depict consequence-free violent mischief and consequence-free flirtation, whereas in God of War we depict stylized, non-explicit (the definition of explicit violence being something out of a torture movie) violence, and stylized, non-explicit sex.

At what point did I saw I saw all sexual behavior like that? Nice try, the original complaint was CLEARLY about framing the argument as "some tits=SAVE THE CHILDREN" So go back and figure out whats being discussed before you make your strawman argument.

And which video game has realistic violence? Were talking about MK mostly which has a guy kcik someones head off, turn into a dragon...Very realistic.

No, you were comparing "impossible comically overly gory kills and Kratos fucking 2 chicks in a minigame" which are basically the same level of content. God of War depicts everything (sex, violence, architecture, movement, etc) in a stylized way. If you had some other interpretation for your argument in mind, maybe you should have expressed yourself more clearly

And I agree with you that generally games don't explicitly depict violence. Heavy Rain does, but that's about it.

 

[bombadilillo]

Fully agree with that Last para. And that "Decapitation=fine, woman's breast=Save the CHILDREN!" really needs to go away. I mean, I know cultural habits die hard...but it's been what, 200 Fucking years since the 1800's. Can we PLEASE put irrational prudeness behind us already?

While were at if can you stop using that frame for the arguement? There is a big difference between preforming impossible comically overly gory kills and Kratos fucking 2 chicks in a minigame.

Its more then "just tits, get over it"

Why is there a difference, exactly?

Wow, being deliberately obtuse. Good angle.

No, I'm honestly kind of curious about your mindset. What's the big difference (that you apparently think should be obvious to others) between gratuitous sex and gratuitous violence?

Theres a reason the coyote gets smashed with a giant mallet instead of the Roadrunner whipping its cock out and fucking him. If you cant see the difference...I dont know how to explain it to you.

No, cartoon violence =/= explicit sex. It would also be off-putting of Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck re-enacted an explicitly violent movie like Saw. OTOH, we see nothing wrong with a "cartoonfied" version of courtship behavior:

Image snipped

I think the problem is that you think of all depictions of sexual behavior as explicit depictions of sexual intercourse, which ignores stuff like courtship behaviors, etc. So in cartoons we depict consequence-free violent mischief and consequence-free flirtation, whereas in God of War we depict stylized, non-explicit (the definition of explicit violence being something out of a torture movie) violence, and stylized, non-explicit sex.

At what point did I saw I saw all sexual behavior like that? Nice try, the original complaint was CLEARLY about framing the argument as "some tits=SAVE THE CHILDREN" So go back and figure out whats being discussed before you make your strawman argument.

And which video game has realistic violence? Were talking about MK mostly which has a guy kcik someones head off, turn into a dragon...Very realistic.

No, you were comparing "impossible comically overly gory kills and Kratos fucking 2 chicks in a minigame" which are basically the same level of content. God of War depicts everything (sex, violence, architecture, movement, etc) in a stylized way. If you had some other interpretation for your argument in mind, maybe you should have expressed yourself more clearly

And I agree with you that generally games don't explicitly depict violence. Heavy Rain does, but that's about it.

No, MK fatalities are literally impossible for the most part, A manly man could do what Kratos does.

One is possible one is impossible. Perfect difference. (I guess you cant really bone a Goddess)

 

[Dfskelleton]

For once, I agreed with everything Yahtzee has said. One more vote for the "Fuck it" rating system.
Also, I noticed on these forums that a few of the people that have condemned DNF solely for being immature also have My Little Pony avatars.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Fully agree with that Last para. And that "Decapitation=fine, woman's breast=Save the CHILDREN!" really needs to go away. I mean, I know cultural habits die hard...but it's been what, 200 Fucking years since the 1800's. Can we PLEASE put irrational prudeness behind us already?

While were at if can you stop using that frame for the arguement? There is a big difference between preforming impossible comically overly gory kills and Kratos fucking 2 chicks in a minigame.

Its more then "just tits, get over it"

Why is there a difference, exactly?

Wow, being deliberately obtuse. Good angle.

No, I'm honestly kind of curious about your mindset. What's the big difference (that you apparently think should be obvious to others) between gratuitous sex and gratuitous violence?

Theres a reason the coyote gets smashed with a giant mallet instead of the Roadrunner whipping its cock out and fucking him. If you cant see the difference...I dont know how to explain it to you.

No, cartoon violence =/= explicit sex. It would also be off-putting of Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck re-enacted an explicitly violent movie like Saw. OTOH, we see nothing wrong with a "cartoonfied" version of courtship behavior:

Image snipped

I think the problem is that you think of all depictions of sexual behavior as explicit depictions of sexual intercourse, which ignores stuff like courtship behaviors, etc. So in cartoons we depict consequence-free violent mischief and consequence-free flirtation, whereas in God of War we depict stylized, non-explicit (the definition of explicit violence being something out of a torture movie) violence, and stylized, non-explicit sex.

At what point did I saw I saw all sexual behavior like that? Nice try, the original complaint was CLEARLY about framing the argument as "some tits=SAVE THE CHILDREN" So go back and figure out whats being discussed before you make your strawman argument.

And which video game has realistic violence? Were talking about MK mostly which has a guy kcik someones head off, turn into a dragon...Very realistic.

No, you were comparing "impossible comically overly gory kills and Kratos fucking 2 chicks in a minigame" which are basically the same level of content. God of War depicts everything (sex, violence, architecture, movement, etc) in a stylized way. If you had some other interpretation for your argument in mind, maybe you should have expressed yourself more clearly

And I agree with you that generally games don't explicitly depict violence. Heavy Rain does, but that's about it.

No, MK fatalities are literally impossible for the most part, A manly man could do what Kratos does.

One is possible one is impossible. Perfect difference. (I guess you cant really bone a Goddess)

Sex and violence, in the real world, don't work the way they do in God of War. Neither does architecture. (Because everything is stylized in that game.) So no, there isn't a huge difference.

 

[genericusername64]

This has been said a thousand times but I'll say it again

"Its the parents responsibility"-Everyone,Ever

 

[bombadilillo]

No, MK fatalities are literally impossible for the most part, A manly man could do what Kratos does.

One is possible one is impossible. Perfect difference. (I guess you cant really bone a Goddess)

Sex and violence, in the real world, don't work the way they do in God of War. Neither does architecture. (Because everything is stylized in that game.) So no, there isn't a huge difference.[/quote]

What does stylized have anything to do with it, thats a filter that is a different thing entirely to the content. I can put a black and white filter over a porn and stylize it and its still a porn. The violence is ripping horns of a ogre, the sex is having sex with a woman.

 

[Nocta-Aeterna]

OT. I believe the whole "mature" tag only goes for how graphic it is, giving the most immature handling of the subject matter the highest rating. Irony?

 

[DanDeFool]

The point Yahtzee made in this article that I most sympathize with is his problem with the "Violence = Regulate, Sex = Ban" mentality. I think it's quite telling that our Judeo-Christian value systems have always denounced sex as inherently sinful, but for the longest time were perfectly accepting of torture and horrific methods of execution. Remember the Crusades? IMHO, if the Catholic Church were truly the representative of a loving and benevolent God, the Templars would have gone into the Holy Land to learn about medicine and art (and possibly to pick up Arab chicks), instead of going there to kill everybody they could get their sword-points on in order to reclaim some patch of dirt.

Certainly sexuality is not something to be treated with frivolity in real life (neither is violence, for that matter), but I think if we followed Yahtzee's advice, and incorporated a mature attitude towards sex into our media (and stopped worrying so much about whether or not looking at dicks is going to damage your children's moral fibre) we'd have a better world. Possibly a world with a lot more rashes, but still...

 

[GonzoGamer]

Fully agree with that Last para. And that "Decapitation=fine, woman's breast=Save the CHILDREN!" really needs to go away. I mean, I know cultural habits die hard...but it's been what, 200 Fucking years since the 1800's. Can we PLEASE put irrational prudeness behind us already?

While were at if can you stop using that frame for the arguement? There is a big difference between preforming impossible comically overly gory kills and Kratos fucking 2 chicks in a minigame.

Its more then "just tits, get over it"

Why is there a difference, exactly?

Wow, being deliberately obtuse. Good angle.

No, I'm honestly kind of curious about your mindset. What's the big difference (that you apparently think should be obvious to others) between gratuitous sex and gratuitous violence?

Theres a reason the coyote gets smashed with a giant mallet instead of the Roadrunner whipping its cock out and fucking him. If you cant see the difference...I dont know how to explain it to you.

Except the coyote doesnt show realistically his entire body crushed into a massive pulp, as his intestines spill out, his blood covers the ground, and you watch the inside of his skull, as well as his bowels emptying on the floor. Yeah, realistic image makes it sound bad doesnt it? We're not discussing cookie cuttered violence here. That mallet to the head in the kids eyes is like a fist to the shoulder.
No one is asking for sex to be taken less seriously than violence, but violence is considered better than an act of love.

I do see what your saying. Perhaps violence is simply easier to cartoonify? If thats a valid description. Its easy to over-the-top gore to where its out of that realistic zone and pointless. Thats harder to do with sex.

There's some tentacle anime out there that would care to disagree with you. That stuff's pretty far from realistic.

I think George Carlin said it best when he said: "I would rather have my child watch two people make love than watch two people trying to kill each other."

 

[Kahunaburger]

No, MK fatalities are literally impossible for the most part, A manly man could do what Kratos does.

One is possible one is impossible. Perfect difference. (I guess you cant really bone a Goddess)

Sex and violence, in the real world, don't work the way they do in God of War. Neither does architecture. (Because everything is stylized in that game.) So no, there isn't a huge difference.

What does stylized have anything to do with it, thats a filter that is a different thing entirely to the content. I can put a black and white filter over a porn and stylize it and its still a porn. The violence is ripping horns of a ogre, the sex is having sex with a woman.

That's kind of silly - unless the sex you have is with bizarrely-proportioned people who don't use birth control and lasts 30 seconds, I don't think you could call God of War sex "realistic" with a straight face. In other words, the whole "unrealistic/stylized violence against imaginary creature = okay, unrealistic/stylized sex between imaginary people = WILL SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!1!!" argument doesn't hold water.

 

[Nenad]

If parents took care of their children instead of relying on someone else we wouldn't have this problem(and probably a bunch of others). Wait, here in we don't have this problem... we have no ratings (as far as I know).

So A Serbian film is a synonym for brutality now, eh?

 

[Sniper Team 4]

Did anyone else hear Zap from Futurama when they read, "What are you, gay?" I did.

Good points all around, as usual Yahtzee. My favorite part though was, "Interesting, isn't it, how violent games never flinch at themselves or spark much controversy (not these days, anyway) but sex, an act of love, is what terrifies people." Says a lot about the state of the human race right there.
Good point about the magic trick in Batman too. I've seen more people be unnerved by that than anything in a video game.

 

[mjc0961]

ESRB ratings are just age restrictions/guidelines. They should probably just get rid of the "mature" label and use something else that sounds more like an age (such as everyone 10+ or teen). Hell, why not get rid of the Mature rank altogether and just start using Adults Only for those games. That's basically what Mature already means, while AO currently is basically a ban. Kick out mature, replace it with AO, and then just have an actual banned rank or something. And then people can stop trying to insist that Duke is mature just because the box says so.

It's really just the United States too. They're the ones who are most Vocal about it, if nothing else.

Don't start this shit again. Plenty of other countries in the world are just as hung up on it. Hell, some are more hung up: Ubisoft isn't brining their Wii Dare game to the UK because they were crying about the trailer showing people playfully spanking each other. I'm pretty sure that makes them even bigger prudes. But the point is, it's not just the US, so again: don't start that shit.

 

[i_ramiz]

Well, just to be accurate, Geralt has immunity against all deceases including venereal ones. That's why he is lady's man.
Anyway, interesting article, and I must agree that current policy about nudity and violence is seems unfair to me.

 

[Xman490]

I have a dream, that one day my grandchildren will be viewing sexual organs with the kind of apathetic respect that they should, and when I cringe, they will call me an old man and tell me to "get with the times" in whatever derivative dialect is common at the time.

 

[Drummodino]

A very valid point Yahtzee I don't understand (as several others have stated) why sex is filtered far more than excessive, crazed violence. Sure I can understand rape and the like being heavily censored but sex is not a bad thing. Hell I believe that if there was more sex in the world today it would be a much happier place.