Extra Punctuation: What Is the Matter with You People?

Yahtzee Croshaw

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What Is the Matter with You People?

Yahtzee talks about the context of "shocking moments" in MW3 and Skyrim.

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John the Gamer

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True enough, killing children is not something you should want to do. But I still want to be capable of harming(fist in face) them if only to shut their annoying face up. It's like the parents in this game don't bother raising thier kids. Most annoying little shits I have seen for a long time in gaming.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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The euro aversion to child murdering goes back to the Fallout series. Specifically Fallout 2, after laws were passed banning the depiction of child violence in video games. This had the hilarious consequence of having invisible children in the game that you couldn't target, but who would occasionally toss out subtitles, and whom you could catch in the crossfire and accidentally kill. You couldn't see them dying, but you could hear it. It is, in fact, a joke in Fallout 3 and Skyrim, where they made a village of invincible children assholes in FO3 and they made almost every child in Skyrim just as big an asshole. When I see a dragon slaughter everyone in a town, I want them to be dead, not with 5 children standing calmly around the flaming corpses.
 

Fappy

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I agree completely... though Bethesda didn't need to rub it in our faces by making them all so obnoxious D:
 

Sylocat

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I too have wondered why killing children is so important to gamers.

Maybe it's just that same "allure of the taboo" thing, that explains why the most sex-o-phobic countries are the most sex-obsessed countries? Even in fictional media where people are butchered left and right, killing kids is this shocking and controversial thing, so people enjoy doing it, just to act out?

That doesn't make it any less disturbing, though... especially when child-murdering is usually one of the first things to get modded, but a child-fucking mod would most likely be this controversial and horrible thing that no one would touch.
 

Jordi

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Consider these two scenarios:
1) A dragon attacks a town, everybody dies, except the children.
2) A super-Casanova comes to a town and fucks everybody, except the children.

I think the exception for children in the first one is completely unrealistic, while in the second one it seems very plausible. There's no reason why a dragon (or any other wild beast or force of nature) would spare children, but there is a very good reason why this casanova would not want to do children. Furthermore, I think Yahtzee's argument only holds if rape were a standard option in the game. If we're talking about consensual sex, it is again entirely likely that you'd be able to screw adults but not children.
 

Rawne1980

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The main reason I add in certain mods like the "child killing" mod in Skyrim is because they make the kids so fething irritating.

That little shit in Whiterun, the one that runs past you saying "i'm not scared of you, even if you are my elder" .... really, well then eat my axe you gobby little shit.

No, no I can't nor would I want to do it in real life.

And there lies the point.

Skyrim isn't real life, it doesn't even come close to real life. If something annoys me in a game I can kill it. If I don't like certain NPC's I can kill them. If i'm bored I can go on a rampage throughout the game world and kill everything.

It's a bloody game, it's pixels.

"Oh no, you killed those children you horrible murderer"

Now marvel as I reload to an earlier save and they are alive again ... it's magic.
 

Eternal_Lament

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First Page: no complaints there, useless shock is indeed lazy, as well as also being self-destructive in the sense of the more you do it, the more shocking it has to be. Sooner or later it just peaks and then drops in an unsatisfying plunge. Also, to be fair child death in that of itself isn't actually that shocking, in the sense that at that point in a shooter so many other people have died that really, is it that odd that a kid dies?

Second Page: I guess I'm conflicted here. On the one hand I won't go out of my way to acquire a child-killing mod or demand that developers must let me kill children in the game from the start, but on the other hand I don't think there is anything wrong with either prospect. This actually was something that annoyed me last year in my film class, as we were watching a movie where they basically built up this scene where a baby in a carriage would fall down a flight of stairs and die, but in the end is miracously saved by this guy who just killed 3 people in that area (he was a hitman) in a way that could only be explained as "Cliche Heroic Moment". What I'm getting at is that this assumption that kids should never die in movies or games seems out of place, especially if in these movies or games they toy with the idea that they may just die but some sudden thing of the moment saves them. To me it just seems like side-stepping an issue that really isn't an issue. Children die all the time, hell there are always commericals about how they die everyday. I think we can accept that children are just as mortal as adults.
 

13CBS

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I suspect that the modders who claim that they want more immersion with child killing are simply hiding the fact that they just want to stab some obnoxious brats in the face. They won't say this aloud, of course, since "I enjoy slaughtering children" is typically frowned upon, but I strongly suspect that their excuse for creating Mortal Children mods is false.

That said, I support the existence of such mods; I don't believe children to be so sacred and innocent that people shouldn't be allowed to kill them in virtual worlds on their own time.
 

xEightBitPlayerx

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True, it would be creepy to see a children of the corn moment where everyone in town is dead from a dragon attack except the children all standing around the flaming corspes. Maybe they could turn that into a mission however, where the children were actually controlling a dragon? I don't know what to say about this whole being able to murder the kids though, mainly cause that never crosses my mind when I play games. Now, those freaking beggers and minstrels in Assassin's Creed though.......
 

Sixcess

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It would probably be less of an issue if the Skyrim modders would pick their words with a bit more care and call it say "No NPC Immortality Mod" rather than "Child Killing Mod" (see the original thread in gen discussion that sparked the debate off here.)

I can see both sides of the argument, and Bethesda have more or less invited the modders to do this by on the one hand emphasising the open ended anyone-can-die gameplay and on the other hand actually putting children in the game. Look at [Prototype], a game which raises collateral damage to an art form and where it's virtually impossible not to slaughter a hundred civilians every time you so much as walk down the street and which sensibly has zero child npcs.
 

BlackStar42

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Mayor MacReady (sp?) in Little Lamplight, Fallout 3. THAT is the reason why I should be able to kill the gobby little shits. Or at least have non-lethal ways to shut them up (and no, the mute button doesn't count).
 

seraphy

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How about not putting children in games at all, if you can't handle them dying in a virtual world.

Would be better option than making them immortal.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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Funny enough I seem to remember you complaining about NOT being able to kill children in a game yourself Mr Crowshaw. Fable 2 i think it was, Saying something about "So much for total freedom ey?" "Suddenly we're getting off-message" I don't think it so much that children are the only ones you can't kill, but more that children are the only ones who can't die. If I can kill everything else and everything else can kill everything else, why do the kids get a free pass? And I doubt people would mind so such but it seems that the kids have become aware of their invulnerably in almost every game they are in and won't stop taunting the player about it.

But you won't be happy until someone makes a mod that allows you marry Barbas will you?
 

Casual Shinji

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Rawne1980 said:
The main reason I add in certain mods like the "child killing" mod in Skyrim is because they make the kids so fething irritating.

That little shit in Whiterun, the one that runs past you saying "i'm not scared of you, even if you are my elder" .... really, well then eat my axe you gobby little shit.
It's a bloody game, it's pixels.
In that regard why would you care if they insult you when they're only pixels?

As I said in the child killing mod thread, I don't mind killing kids if the game has the proper story-based context, like say Lord of the Flies. But offing kids just for general stress relief is not my cup of tea at all.
 

CopperBoom

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What about "Skyrim Sex Life"
which is just about killing women and artfully placing them because you cannot have as many wives as he wants?

http://kotaku.com/5863096/a-peek-inside-the-home-of-skyrims-first-serial-killer

This piece reminds me of that.
 

Kopikatsu

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Sylocat said:
I too have wondered why killing children is so important to gamers.

Maybe it's just that same "allure of the taboo" thing, that explains why the most sex-o-phobic countries are the most sex-obsessed countries? Even in fictional media where people are butchered left and right, killing kids is this shocking and controversial thing, so people enjoy doing it, just to act out?

That doesn't make it any less disturbing, though... especially when child-murdering is usually one of the first things to get modded, but a child-fucking mod would most likely be this controversial and horrible thing that no one would touch.
It has nothing to do with the fact that killing children is taboo.

It's that Bethesda knows how to make the most fucking annoying twats in existence. Besides that, if I'm going to raze a town to the ground, I want everyone to die. Men, women, children, quest-essential NPCs...everyone.
 

Sixcess

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DVS BSTrD said:
Funny enough I seem to remember you complaining about NOT being able to kill children in a game yourself Mr Crowshaw. Fable 2 i think it was.
I don't remember that, though I do remember the words "and another thing, why can't I marry my dog?!" from one of the Fable reviews.

But that's a whole different issue of player choice being restricted, and probably best left to Bioware's Dragon Age forums...
 

lacktheknack

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BlackStar42 said:
Mayor MacReady (sp?) in Little Lamplight, Fallout 3. THAT is the reason why I should be able to kill the gobby little shits. Or at least have non-lethal ways to shut them up (and no, the mute button doesn't count).
Child At Heart perk.

Boom, Little Lamplight is the best town in the entire game.

OT: So I'm assuming that your "murder the children" bit in the Fable 2 review was a joke?