Extra Punctuation: Why Regenerating Health Sucks

[Lord_Gremlin]

I liked health system in first Killzone on PS2. It was somewhat similar to Chronicles of Riddik. Your health bar basically health several sections, that regenerate if you took just a little damage, but if damage is substantial your health will regenerate only up to 75, 50 or 25% percent, depending on how much damage you took. To fully restore health you had to find a medkit, that would regenerate it to 100% again. And medkits were really scarce. This system forced you to be careful in a firefight and at the same time you wouldn't suddenly die of accumulated small half-painless falling damage huts.
A shame they made 100% health regenerate in Killzone 2 and 3. But that is basically because of Elite difficulty. Which is, essentially, a no-hit run for obsessed. You get shot - you die, so no point in medkits. And if Elite and other difficulties had different health systems... Well, look at Bionic Commando remake on PSN. Yuk.

 

[Triggerhappy938]

I actually preferred Halo 1's health system to the later sequels. You had a shield that regenerated and, separately, you had your health. You shield takes a few bullets before going away [exact amount dependent on the difficulty], your health is chunks of your ass being shot off that have to be healed with med kits. It allows for you to take a little more beating than a traditional health system, encouraging a somewhat more aggressive stance, but gave a real consequence to being shot excessively that wouldn't go away while you were behind a wall.

That being said, I don't think that regenerating health is 100% bad or good. I do think it's overused in modern gaming. But, that's gaming history in a nutshell, isn't it. Something works, then everyone copies it and tries to jam it in their games where it doesn't fit. Cover based shooters, stealth, and 2D scrolling platformers have all birthed this phenomenon.

 

[C.S.Strowbridge]

I pretty much stopped playing the genre when health regeneration became the norm. Being well below half-health and thinking, "Should I run for that big gun, before the enemy gets it? Or should I look for some health?" That adds to the game.

 

[archvile93]

I have to disagree with Yahtzee here, it all depends on the game. As I've said before, games where resource management is an important part of the game shouldn't have it, but games that focus on action should consider it. In some games regenerating health made the game more intense. For example, in a game with set health you tend to have a lot. If I go into a fight with full health, unless it's the final battle or I'm playing on the impossible difficulty I really don't have much to fear, since making a mistake will usually just result in losing more health than I need to, or at worst losing a lot more. With regenerating health, where you usually have much less to compensate for the fact you get it back, even minor fights can be a challenge since one mistake may mean I don't have time to run back to cover.

Also: Kirchhoff? really captcha?

 

[lozfoe444]

I like the idea of having health scattered or hidden in the environment. Then it forces the player to explore the level looking for the health, or they can choose to take the dangerous but faster route and just go without exploring.
Also, you're right. There is something weird about finding something that heals you inside something that was just trying to kill you. There's something philosophical about that I'm sure.

 

[Xanadu84]

Bullshit. Entitled to your opinion sure, but frankly, Yahtzee is just plain wrong here. Regenerating health is a great idea. It resets every challenge, giving a fresh perspective each time. No artificially difficult sections where you have extra low health, no resource management to distract you from the action at hand. There are PLENTY of other ways to add narrative continuity besides a big red bar. Not every game should have regenerating health: Games like Half Life, Dead Space, etc get a good deal of improved pacing and tension from a health system. But honestly, I can't name a game with regenerating health that should have used hit points, or vise versa. For all the design mistakes out there, the health system choice is not one of them. Maybe video games just need more games that have a slower pace, and less focus on manic action. Maybe we need less games that benefit more from regeneration. But that's a completely different aissue. Regenerating health is here to stay. And you know what? Regenerating health may not be realistic, but it FEELS more realistic. Because if you don't die, you can simply assume that whatever happened was an ignorable flesh wound. That feels a lot more reasonable then getting shot in the face, being fine, then dying from a paper cut.

 

[dunnace]

Metal gear solid 3's system has always stuck out to me as the best. it's a semi-permanent/permanent bar that you regenerate by eating animals you have to hunt. It adds a huge depth to an otherwise necessary feature, different animals have different effects and the side quest of hunting becomes something comfortably methodical. I liked how when I was in a down time during the game I'd suddenly go "Right! Let's go get some tasty frogs for later!" and spend some time hunting delicious snacks. Then, after an intense boss fight I'd have a little picnic over his body while pulling out bullets with a knife.

God I loved MGS3...

 

[Assassin Xaero]

The Chronicles of Riddick still has the best health system, in my opinion. It regenerates to a point, but also has you hunt down health stations that have limited health in them. And there was that other game (maybe it was Half Life 2?) where your health would regenerate up to ~30% so you wouldn't be completely screwed, but still not enough to make it easy.

 

[FiendishFu12]

I'm genuinely distressed that Yahtzee has thought of my 'luck' system to replace health. For years I thought I was terribly clever to be the only person to have come up with it. Damn you, you behatted semi-Antipodean.

 

[Tempest13]

I like Halo: Combat Evolved's health system for console shooters, devised to help compensate for the lack of pinpoint-accuracy of a Dual-Shock controller. The hybrid of regenerating and non-regenerating health I find to be a great system, because it still gives you the low-health thrill and challenges, but ensures you at least have enough health that you don't get stuck going into a battle where getting hit is guarenteed with only 1 hit left.

Playing half-life, I got frustrated by the number of times I really screwed up a battle, and was forced to continue with >15 health throughout an entire mission. Of course, the fact that the Half-life engine somehow gives me motion sickness (I think it's the too-noninvasive HUD) doesn't help.

Prince of Persia: Sands of Time had a good health system as well for the game style, where you had to be careful with your health in combat and platforming, but the unlimited-use health stations allowed you to fully heal at the right times, instead of having to force the developers to guess how much health you'd need at that point.

This is exactly how I feel. Halo balanced it well, Half-Life was potentially frustrating if you screwed up but still possible, and PoP used time as a negative to avoid healing in mid battle. (which I would still try all the time.) These methods worked well for health gain.

I think Halo Reach had a nice balance as well, a small amount of health regen on occasion before shields regen, but if you drop alot of health you need to get to the packs. This allows players to keep fighting if they need to while giving uninjured players a decent advantage...until they get stuck. XD

 

[ComicsAreWeird]

I like the Sonic approach. Damn, those games were awesome.I actually think that could work in a 3rd person action game like Devil May Cry.
For FPS´s i like the partial regenerating health bar system that can be seen in Resistence and Killzone.

 

[fix-the-spade]

Oi, Yahtzee?!

Do you remember the Syphone Filter games, the reasonably good PS1 editions? They implemented something very similar to your luck idea. Depending on your position relative to the enemy you had a 'danger' bar that filled or emptied. With the bar empty you were less likely to take hits (bot not totally immune), full bar and the enemy has you ranged, you take hits.

The player character could still take a few hits once the bar was full, but there were modifiers to that. When the enemy had armour piercing rounds, explosives or aimed for your head you suddenly became very squishy. Filling up the bar meant almost instant death.

It worked really well, although it equated to even more hiding round corners than regenerating health, it at least made the hide and seek sessions intense.

 

[Azaraxzealot]

i think we have regenerating health so that it DOES enrich the experience by allowing the player to make more mistakes without punishing them with more "game over" screens.

it just makes it more accessible to more audiences, and who wouldn't prefer some Saints Row 2 to Grand Theft Auto 4 when it comes to fun?

 

[DugMachine]

Halo: Reach sort of has this. You have your main shield which regenerates with time and you're health will regenerate but only if you have taken minimum damage. I think if it's past the 75% mark you have to find a health pack to regain your health. They also quickly restore health and shields if you need a quick heal.

 

[Lono Shrugged]

The old Syphon Filter games had a health system but even better it had a danger bar, which sounds like a fun place to get drunk but was actually a lot like the luck system mentioned. When it filled you started taking hits as your enemies got more of a bead on you. It made great sense as crappy crims and terrorists would have shite aim whereas the professional puppy strangling secret agents on later levels would have crack aim.

I am deeply offended that Yahtzee never played a 14 year old semi-obscure PS1 game and call his credentials into question....

(edit: beaten)

 

[Coldster]

I still think that Halo Reach has the best health system: Shield bar regenerates, health only recharges when you get a health pack. It may not be the best health system but it works really well in the campaign and the multiplayer. Better yet, it lets the player overcome challenges by letting you push your body out of cover for a second to kill enemies while your shields takes the hits and duck behind cover when it gets too low. Of course, some of the AI realise your weak in this state and they run up to you to finish the job.

Also, I can't read the second word in the spot chapcha, it looks like some arabian symbols.

 

[cke]

Believe it or not, i had a similar idea to yahtzee's about that "luck" system. you could have a character who is considered "very lucky" and as he's getting shot at, the bullets whiz by or he happens to dodge them. once your luck bar runs out though, its close to curtains for you. you would have a very limited health bar and once the bullets started hitting you, it would be realistic and you would die in one or two shots.

You mean like Brothers in Arms:HH ?

 

[Frozenfeet2]

With a luck system does it regenerate at all? Regeneration of health is used because the problem with health bars would be getting a checkpoint with low health then being screwed on a game like CoD. It totally depends what type of game, regeneration is better for CoD.

Another point: Some games (e.g. Assassin's Creed) shouldn't use both medicine etc and regeneration for gaining health. Although having more armour = more health is a good idea I haven't seen other games use it.

 

[Vampire cat]

I always felt the regeneration from... Well I can't actually remember which game, it might have been Medal of Honor Airborne. Anyway, you had 4-or-so "bars". Those bars worked so that when 1 was empty, the next would start to drain, and you wouldn't be dead until they were all empty. A shot to the torso would take 1 bar or so, to the head would be 3-4 bars, and arms and legs (non-criticals) would be 1/2 of a bar. Obviously something more elaborate in the form of hit-boxes could be made, just to give you an idea.

The thing is, a bar can ONLY be regenerated if there is some hp left in that bar (regardless of how little). When the bar is empty and a new one has started draining, that bar is lost. A way to remidy having to go around with 3/4 or HP all the time after your first confontration could be by bringing back the medic class (I'm obviously talking multi-player here, sorry for not mentioning that earlier), which has the unique ability of applying bandages, 1 bandage would bring back 1 bar at say 10%, and it would then regenerate itself to full. This could be done as many times as needed to get the full 4 bars.

In my opinion, this is by far the most sane system that the developers could be using at the moment, and I really wish they would as it would also allow us to carry more magazines again, now your killing ability must be limited by only letting you carry a few magazines (typically 2-4), which is very annoying in my opinion (especially for games that seek to be realistic, seeing as the average soldier would carry 8-12 magazines if not more).


EDIT:

Halo: Reach sort of has this. You have your main shield which regenerates with time and you're health will regenerate but only if you have taken minimum damage. I think if it's past the 75% mark you have to find a health pack to regain your health. They also quickly restore health and shields if you need a quick heal.

I guess this is sorta what I'm on about =3.

 

[Scow2]

I think a way to justify "Healing by Killing", especially for a fast-paced action game, is to have health represent some sort of "Strength/Resolve/Endurance through Self-Confidence and Spirit," since it's already established that no health system can be realistically implemented and fun at the same time.

It's also the most sensible from the abstract when the point of the game is kicking names and taking ass, because since losing health is punishing screwing up and failure, success and doing things right rewards you with more health.

I like an idea you didn't mention, but I thought of when reflecting on Halo's system: Give two health bars, either a "Health from Time/action" like the Walk it Off, Health-through-Murder, or Regeneration systems, and one "Recover-through-depletion", like immobile health packs, med-stations, and usable Healing Potions; or a "Easy, short-term recovery" and "Hard, long-term Recovery" system, like that seen in Left 4 Dead, with its pills and first-aid kits.

Even my favorite tabletop game, D&D, uses a Dual-health-bar system, with Standard Hit Points and Temporary Hit Points on top of those.

And: Halo 1 had a better system than Halo-Reach, by not extending the Shield bar to also include half the health bar.