Extra Punctuation: Why Regenerating Health Sucks

tzimize

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Yer....I agree. I recently played Singularity, and its the first time in a good long while I've felt that buzz from a fps game...the surviving thrill. You got a health bar, and thats not all. If you want to heal, you have to bandage yourself. And since you really cant take a lot of punishment in that game that can get real exciting real fast :p

Of course, a while into the game you get the "time-warp-orb-thingy" and any challenge is vaporized. But it was good while it lasted! And at leas the orb was fun, if extremely overpowered.
 

Axelhander

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Sometimes you *want* to reset a game at every encounter, to contr each encounter independent of previous elements. In that case, regenerating health is fine, provided it isn't a trivial matter to find the cover/defensive mechanism needed to let it work.

Health system needs to match game and level mechanics, whether that health regenerates (Halo), doesn't (DOOM), or even if there's no real health system at all (one of the many ways Kirby's Epic Yarn is brilliant).
 

GloatingSwine

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The thing that regenerating health does, and the reason that it's here to stay, is that it means the developers always know how much health the player has as they enter an encounter.

Suddenly there are no encounters that are a breeze if you're at full health but a nightmare if you're banged up, the designer actually gets to design the challenge level of the encounters.
 

Optimystic

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I hate having to backtrack. It utterly breaks the gameflow.

I'm very surprised to hear Yahtzee endorse it, I thought flow was one of his prime metrics of a good game.
 

Pumpkin_Eater

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I just started Mass Effect 2, which unlike the first game uses the quick regen method, and it's one of my gripes about the sequel. The system is designed in such a way that you have to use the chest high walls corners, because enemy fire drops you too quickly to use other tactics. It feels like Sheopard is made of paper and the glass is made of armor, and medigel might as well be called pheonix down, because the healing it does on Sheopard restores one, maybe two shots worth of damage.

It's still a good game, but the combat system has plenty to complain about.
 

crazyhyena645

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regenerating health makes no sense unless your character is some sort of super mutant and can absorb radiation to heal itself which is not the case in 98% of games. if they could give us some kind of story on how the healing works like microbs in the blood can fix any type of wound but they need electirisity for the nessesary power to fix wound. different wound different amount of power.
 

Steve the Pocket

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At the end of the day, there are two priorities in game design. One is keeping the player from ending up in a hopeless situation but not actually dead, where their only real choice is to commit suicide or restart from a save. (It's the same reason LucasArts adventure games never let you move on to the next chapter if it required some item from the current one you hadn't picked up yet.) If you do a poor job in one battle, you should be able to redeem yourself by doing well in the next one.

The other priority is ensuring this without making the game feel too easy. Regenerating health is an easy way to accomplish the first, and fail spectacularly at the second. Giving players full health restores at the end of every area isn't much better, but at least it doesn't also turn every battle into a game of reverse whack-a-mole. Half-Life 2 did an excellent job balancing both. It was unlikely that you would ever complete a difficult section without there being just enough health left over around the corner to keep it from being unreasonable, but not enough to feel like a reset button.

Ironically, I have to dock them points for missing a good opportunity to integrate the HEV suit better into the game world. As it stood, it was just an extension of your health bar that needed a different type of object to regen. Other than that trick it did with the poison headcrabs, which didn't even happen until the second game, it never did anything uniquely useful. The most realistic approach to powered armor in a game, to me, would be something like giving the armor a finite amount of power, having it drain some whenever it has to repair some damage either to itself or to you, and being able to regen using a charging station. None of this "your suit regenerates power out of thin air" nonsense like in Halo.

The "luck bar" thing reminds me of action movies, where the hero can get in multiple firefights yet never get hit once, because if he did he'd be screwed. It would be a little hard to convey to the player, though, unless the game is explained as actually being a movie, and some NPC brings up this trope (like some video game version of The Last Action Hero). And as someone else mentioned, having it tick down when the player isn't getting hit adds to the confusion; a properly-labeled health bar gets its point across immediately, and even an oddly-named one like Duke Nukem's ego bar makes it clear pretty early on what its function is because it's ticking down whenever you get hit.

There are situations that regenerating health has worked well: namely, when management of resources wouldn't otherwise be part of the game. Portal and Mirror's Edge do this perfectly. The former is a first-person puzzle game, and having health at all is just an excuse to keep turrets from being one-hit kills, so suddenly adding a health bar and health pickups would feel like a genre shift. The latter is a parkour platformer where stopping to hunt for pickups would break flow. Since there's so little damage you can take in either one before you die, you can write it off as your body shrugging off minor injuries like in real life (although it does seem a bit hard to swallow in Portal once several people worth of blood end up splattered on the walls).

Triforceformer said:
In Duke Nukem Forever (This is a bit speculation, but bear with me), health regen would work because it helps the player feel as powerful as Duke is; able to take bullets like they're candy...or some other metaphor. It also helps that the health bar is named an "EGO" bar. Duke Nukem's huge-ass EGO can deflect bullets and lasers, and absorb pipe-bomb explosions. That alone justifies the regenerating health. For me at least.

But it's not like DNF just gave up its exploration factor by going with EGO. Searching around for interactive novelties, executing "bleeding out" enemies, etc, inflates the overall EGO. So rather than searching for health packs to mend your wounds, you find say for example, a "Balls of Steel" pinball machine. If you get the high score, your overall EGO becomes larger so that you'll have a better chance at surviving future encounters. Yes it's still regenerating health, but it's regenerating health that accounts for the lack of depth that would come from just having the system and nothing else.
Pity this is all speculation; that would be a very interesting use of the ego bar. Having it go up whenever he does something cool, like a health bar tied in to the achievement system.
 

RobfromtheGulag

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I agree in respect to shooters.

I just recall playing Mirror's Edge for the first time and wondering how I recovered health. I was initially under the impression I did have to move, so I'd be doing little jigs behind cover expecting it to cause regen.
Mirror's Edge however didn't really require the gunfights, the bullets whizzing around just added a sense of urgency that was almost unnecessary. Either way, I think the regen system worked well there because for once you weren't looking in every nook and cranny for items. [Unless you got obsessive about those yellow bags].
 

Crimson_Dragoon

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Non-regenerating health systems have their own problems, too. With regeneration, each battle can be planned with the assumption that the player is at full health, so its difficulty can be planned appropriately. A boss battle will be difficult, a mook battle will be easy, and so on. But with no regeneration, the difficulty will depend (largely at least) on the amount of health the player has. A regular battle can be absurdly easy if the player has full health, or frustratingly difficult if he has low health.

Let's say a player goes into a boss battle with 10% health, which is next to impossible to win with, and dieing just brings him back to just before the boss. That player will either have to play the battle dozens of times to get by with that little health, or get to that point by restarting the level or bringing up a previous save. Neither of these are good solutions.

Regeneration and non-regeneration systems both have their ups and downs, and its ridiculous to say one should never be used.
 

Kermi

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The only real problem with regenerating health is when developers use it as a lazy crutch because they're bad at designing encounters.
Let's talk about Halo for a minute, since they're usually credited/blamed with starting the trend.

Bungie are good at encounters - they give you a frantic, thirty second encounter where you use your wits and the tools available to overcome a tough enemy or group of enemies. The encounters progress in difficulty and size as you progress through the game - you're always having to learn new tricks and use a range of weapons.
Bungie have determined that about thirty seconds is about as much action as we can take before it's going to get tiresome, so once we've cleared an area, we have a cooldown while we walk to the next area. We're going to be pretty much refreshed once we get there, maybe a little lower on ammo than we'd like depending on what we've just been though, but all in all in good shape to start fighting again.

You can sit in a corner and wait for your shields to regnerate but I think an experienced player who is into the flow of Halo appreciates that the shields popping is time to take cover. You can't hide behind a rock every time an enemy looks at you. That's boring. So you exchange fire, take your lumps, then take cover - and hopefully you suppressed the enemiees well enough that they don't flank you while you're waiting for a shield recharge, because they'll try.

I know it's not very well explained, but I'm rushing to try to get to my point instead of verbally fellating Bungie.

The point is, when you compare this to an experience like Call of Duty, you're not getting quick encounters. You're getting a frenzy of really annoying shit. You can't control the battlefield. In most games enemies jsut infinitely respawn so all you're doing is clearing a path. Of course the enemies are raining grenades down on you, shooting you as soon as you become visible, and making what should be a thirty second encounter into a five minute endurance trial. Half the time you pop out of cover you take a hit and have to hide again. Youre out of grenades. You JUST fucking shot that guy and he's been replaced with a fucking clone who apparently spawned durectly out of the ground. All you're trying to do is clear a path to get to the next checkpoint.
It's artificial extension of a game. Interestingly I was playing Call of Duty Classic last week (I got an XBLA code for it with my prestige edition of Modern Warfare 2) and CoD1 did use a health bar.
Something I'm noticing is that most of the encounters seem to take place with me either traversing a very small area with helth packs littered all over the place, or centred around me defending one area with a big pile of health and ammo in the middle. I can see why Call of Duty jumped on the regenning health bandwagon, based on their earlier game all you were doing was running for the nearest health pack every time your health bar turns yellow anyway.

So anyway. The point I was trying to make is that most complaints about regenerating health stem from the fact that it results in lazy design and lazy players. I put it to you that lazy design is lazy design regardless, and that the rise of regenerating health is a symptom, not the cause.

Side note: I have a friend who's been to Afghanistan and been hit a few times. His body armor took the hits for him. He got knocked down, but was able to continue fighting. Impaired, yes, but not incapacitated. When I'm playing a game like MW2 I tend to rationalise my ability to take damage and recover as the shots hitting my body armor. After a few seconds I'm ok to start fighting. It's still not a realistic representation and doesn't fully explain the strawberry jam in my eyes, but it makes slightly more sense than falling twenty feet in System Shock, being informed by my personal computer my my leg is broken, and then being able to walk comfortably after slapping a stim pack on it.

Side side note: I understand that Duke Nukem Forever will use an Ego Mater in place of a health bar - Duke Nukem isn't getting injured, the aliens are just wounding his pride. He can boost his ego by looking in mirrors, taking steroids and drinking beer. This is nothing short of FUCKING AWESOME.
 

370999

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Crimson_Dragoon said:
Non-regenerating health systems have their own problems, too. With regeneration, each battle can be planned with the assumption that the player is at full health, so its difficulty can be planned appropriately. A boss battle will be difficult, a mook battle will be easy, and so on. But with no regeneration, the difficulty will depend (largely at least) on the amount of health the player has. A regular battle can be absurdly easy if the player has full health, or frustratingly difficult if he has low health.

Let's say a player goes into a boss battle with 10% health, which is next to impossible to win with, and dieing just brings him back to just before the boss. That player will either have to play the battle dozens of times to get by with that little health, or get to that point by restarting the level or bringing up a previous save. Neither of these are good solutions.

Regeneration and non-regeneration systems both have their ups and downs, and its ridiculous to say one should never be used.
This was why I thought Games designers used it so much. It makes designing the game so much easier for them. Hence why it is employed so much. I do think it is pretty boring though having to wait for those few seconds, though it can be used well ie I hope those guards only realise where I am in ten seconds rather then five.
 

Verkula

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Nope, its fine as it is. But maybe i think that because i play games in other genres too and not just FPS and TPS.

Just bring back the health bar for "oldschool" style games, and leave it in the ones trying to be realistic(you can argue all day if thats realistic or not, but its the closest we gonna get).

Or just do a 1 shot kill game where you actually have to be careful, and would be balanced with other things, like the enemy not being 90% accurate from the other side of a hangar, oh and no crosshair anywhere, specially not in multiplayer.
 

Shycte

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Hmm, I don't know. When I think of it, my favorite games have always been those of health bars. But I don't like the idea of dissmissing the whole thing just like that. It does give for some moments, and god know that I don't want to hear that fucking noise whenever my pokémon is low on health.
 

tweedpol

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This has probably been said, but, in many many games WITH health bars (eg. Half life 2), I end up constantly quickloading every time I lose more than about 20 health, which is a bit like having regenerating health but more boring and cheat-y. Perhaps I'm a bit obsessive, but there are no end of games in which this is almost necessary, I'm reminded of Max Payne where towards the end getting hit at all meant you either died or were so close to death that you had to reload. I'm not saying regen is better, but it does allow for a better flowing game in many ways, the need to explore can be given in other ways. Prototype had a good system in my opinion.
 

AetherWolf

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I've become so used to regenerating health that my current playthrough of Fallout 3 is being quite the challenge, especially when I respawn at the start of an area with the same amount of health I had when I first entered. Really shows how much developers treat us like goldfish these days (I'm looking at you, FFXIII).
 

Jfswift

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thereverend7 said:
Believe it or not, i had a similar idea to yahtzee's about that "luck" system. you could have a character who is considered "very lucky" and as he's getting shot at, the bullets whiz by or he happens to dodge them. once your luck bar runs out though, its close to curtains for you. you would have a very limited health bar and once the bullets started hitting you, it would be realistic and you would die in one or two shots.
Kind of similar was a regenerating "force" bar in Star Wars Episode 1: Jedi Power Battles (that's a mouthfull huh..). You could hold down a button to automatically deflect incoming laser shots but it got depleted very quickly and you were pressed for action so often that you couldn't let it regenerate much, if at all. I thought it was actually a good game mechanic (in a game filled with alot of bad ones like forcing both players to accurately jump over chasms and killing you both if either missed). Level ups would expand the bar too a little bit.
 

Rad Party God

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Shinobi, for the PS2, had a similar system, you character's life is depleting and the only way to regenerate, or at least keep playing for a bit longer is by killing enemies, the more you killed at once, the more health you gained and more blood got splattered everywhere.

I miss that game. So fucking hard.