Fable III Dev Lobs a Few Word Bombs at the Haters

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roguewriter

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*Warning: Wall ?O Text*

Though its abundantly clear that Fable 3 did not register well with fans of either Fable: TLC, or Fable 2, I do not count myself amongst them. Did I think, however, that Fable 3 was perfect? Far from it. The story, while interesting in certain areas (Aurora) lacked a certain?weight, perhaps? The game persistently tried to make you believe that you were starting a Revolution, when in point of fact you were merely the focal point of a coup against a Tyrant. Revolutions usually involve toppling an entire system of Government and changing it completely. Replacing one King for another does not equal a Revolution. Also, there was never any real sense that you were fighting a desperate battle against said dictator. Yes, there was the Marquis? French underground, but it just seemed so lackluster. It was made to seem that one woman and her few dozens men were the *whole* of the resistance. You never encountered cells, and your quests always had very little to do with destabilizing or launching attacks to weaken the corrupt King?s Government. It really just felt like the ?Revolution? was a very ambiguous background plot. Also, basically running around and shouting to everyone, ?Hey, look here. I?m the Former Prince! You know, the Traitor my King/Brother should be scouring the land to find?!? gave the story a kind of detachment. If Logan was as desperate as he seemed to do what needed to be done, wouldn?t it make sense to stop another Figure head from derailing said plans? That said, they did do quite a few things right. The recruiting of allies was done fairly well, and Theresa?s cryptic guidance did lend the story, at times, a sense of gravitas. However, in regards to the story, these moments were too few and far in between.

Moving on from story, there were just so many ideas thrown into the game that just didn?t work and really just bogged down the game. The influence of Co-Op, frankly, had no place in a game of this nature. FPS titles like Modern Warfare, or conquest mode games like Battlefront or the forthcoming Lord of the Rings: War in the North are titles made for Co-Op. Fable has always been about a personal story concerning an epic ?Fables? like journey, forging a Legend and becoming a Hero. When you have an RPG with that type of story direction/intention, throwing in Co-Op or elements that force one to use Co-Op least they miss something, i.e. Demon Doors that won?t open unless you have someone from another ?world? with you, defeats the overall intention and immersion factor of the game. Hence the reason you will never see Co-Op in RPG games like Mass Effect or the Elder Scrolls. It just really defeats the point of most RPGs which are meant to be single player stories that might involve companions and other NPCS. At the end of the day, I should not have my game experience hampered in any way if I don?t want to play *my* Role Playing game with someone else.

Other ideas that just didn?t work? Keeping in place the Fables forced multi-class system. In any RPG, one should be able to choose how they want to play without being reminded or forced to use other systems, either in combat or for puzzles, etc. If I want to play the game as a Full Will user, being forced to run around with a sword on my back and pistol that I will also be forced to use is just redundant. Some have argued that, in the Fable universe, the Heroes were all multi-class. However, over the course of all the games we have seen Heroes that were single classed, Fable 2 being the most intense in regards to that with the Heroes of Strength, Skill, and Will. If I wanted to play Fable 3 as a Garth like character, I should have been able to, never being forced to rely on a sword or pistol for even the slightest thing. Hopefully, in Fable 4, they will permit one to choose from the start, or near start, how they want to play without forcing them through Melee, Pistol, Will tutorials if they choose one over the others.

The Road to Rule. It?s use in the context of the narrative was thin as best. Theresa showing you visions of your path would have been sufficient. Acquiring Guild Seals to unlock skill chests was just?frustrating. If I want Dyes I should have been able to buy them. Expressions should have been unlocked via levels/actions like the previous Fables. And my Skills should have improved/upgraded with use, not by unlocking chests. As to the Free Flow combat style? I rather enjoyed it, despite certain aspects of it, like rolling in battle, not always working correctly; couple this with an auto Targeting system that almost never worked in conjunction with the camera? Sorry, Mr. West, but you needed to take your system back to the drawing board, just a little bit. It was not something to be super proud of.

The Dog. For the love of Ponies, please *stop* giving me the Dog. I know Peter Monlynuex and his son have a hard on for Dogs, but I don?t want it. Give me an enchanted compass that can find treasures or something of that sort. That and the shovel is fine. I don?t know how many times I had to wait for that Dog to get unstuck from the terrain so it could dig up a quest item or rare treasure. ?Nuff said.

The absolute last thing which bothered me and kept this game from being amazing? The game is called Fable, and, as such, should maintain at least some semblance of the Mythic/Fairy Tale tone it implies. Setting the game in the industrial age, with no evidence of Magic (save from the Hero), Mythical creatures (save Hobbes -British version of goblins I?m assuming- and Balverines) Elves, Dwarves, Dragons, etc really defeats the goal of making the game feel like it?s set in some storybook universe. Now, by storybook, obviously I don?t mean it should be devoid of dark or mature themes. Both Fable 1-2 maintained elements of The Brothers Grimm and even C.S. Lewis, whilst Fable 3, save for Aurora (Arabian Nights), had none of them. I understand that Lionhead intends to continue the series, moving even further ahead in time; however, at this point, taking the game back to it?s roots with the world of Albion would do the series a great deal of good.

I know all of this may seem as though I did not, in fact, enjoy the game, when, in point of fact, I did. The game simply frustrated me with the level of potential that just *wasn?t* realized. The game is gorgeous, visually and musically. The acting? Save for the repetitive Butler that just would not shut up every time I stopped by my ?sanctuary,? was amazing. Michael Fassbender needs to play a villain in *every* RPG series, I don?t care which. Also, please note that John Cleese is a Legend that I love dearly. I just wanted him to be quiet or even not present every now and then. So, overall, there were many things that Lionhead should be proud of, and even with all the little hiccups I would still recommend the game as being worth a buy, especially if you have the previous Fables. However, I do think, instead of being so adamant about the game being Super Good, Lionhead and members of the team like Mr. West would benefit from trying to look at what they *might have* done wrong, and keep these lessons in mind if they choose to go forward with the series.
 

fgdfgdgd

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What's that Mike West? I can't here you over the sound of the awards that Rockstar got for Red Dead Redemption. That's right, the people that almost exclusively made games about Italian men shooting each other and making dick jokes beat you, now just go back to your little corner and make a new game, not a Fable game, a new game, like Rockstar keep doing these days.

On a side note: Does anyone think it's weird that Rockstar seem to be the company making the most innovation these days? I mean, just think about that for a second, Rockstar...
 

Legion

Were it so easy
Oct 2, 2008
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I have never played a Fable game but judging from other peoples general thoughts the main issue seems to be the difference between what Peter Molyneux says will be in the game, and what is actually in there. He seems to exaggerate a lot, as well as confirming features and ideas that never actually make it into the game.

ThatDaveDude1 said:
...he's joking, right?

This is some clever satire of arrogant developers...right?

...right?

He can't possibly be serious with this shit...
Oh, but he is.
 

Bobbity

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Mar 17, 2010
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I truly loved Fable 1, quite enjoyed Fable 2, but was supremely underwhelmed by Fable 3.

I wish that they'd go back to the feel of the first, actually make good on Peter Molyneux's promises, or just tape his mouth shut. The first or the second would be best, but the third might relieve our disappointment when the newest Fable game doesn't live up to the hype. :p
 

The Human Torch

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Sep 12, 2010
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Are all the people at Lionhead bat-shit insane? Someone needs to let these people out of the office and give them a dose of fresh air.

Seriously, only game developers can whine about people "not getting their game". You don't see James Cameron coming out with a press release that says "Yeah, people who didn't like Avatar just didn't get it.".

Game developers, grow a backbone and just stick to do doing the best you can. If in the end you are found wanting, than it's no one's fault but your own.
 

Fasckira

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Oct 22, 2009
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Fable 3 was ok. I liked Fable 2 a lot more though (its also one of the main reasons I decided to get an XBOX360), as the storyline was at least a tad creative. The first half of Fable 3 had some good points but as soon as you take over the kingdom it just becomes this slow slide to the end with possibly the most pathetic end-boss ever waiting to waste a few minutes of your time.

They did indeed try to be unique in their approach to the design but it kind of all fell apart in the execution. I hope at least the PC version wont suffer from the terrible graphic issues that plagued the XBOX360 version.
 

BrotherRool

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Oct 31, 2008
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I know it must be really painful to invest all your time and hope into a game and then hear people disliking things that you really became attached too.

But I really think you can't tell people they just don't know what they like. Stories are subjective and if for me Fable's story sucked, telling me that you had okay elements in it won't change my mind. Maybe I don't like comedies, that doesn't mean I'm wrong in disliking Fable. It just wasn't the story for me
 

YodaUnleashed

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Jun 11, 2010
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Just one point, sure they made a "co-operative role-playing game" technically but the co-op wasn't really an integral part to the experience was it, it was more of an additional optional thing and I'm not saying it should have been the focus or anything but just sticking on a co-op feature into a role-playing game doesn't make it anymore noteworthy.
 

badgersprite

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Sep 22, 2009
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Yeesh, you know I'm actually one of the few people who likes this game, but Mike West's response just puts me off. He really does sound like an obnoxious, self-righteous jerk who thinks he and his company are incapable of faults. He comes across as saying, "LOL PEOPLE WERE EXPECTING MORE THAN A MEDIOCRE GAME? YOU OBVIOUSLY DIDN'T ~GET US AND OUR VISION!"

Dude, if people have criticisms of your game, you can't pretend they don't exist. And this whole notion that you weren't trying to make anything better than Fable III isn't really a good defence. I mean, if all I get is a C in my exams because I was lazy and that was all I cared to get and I wasn't trying to make an A+ worthy essay, I don't have a right to feel jibbed when my teacher only gives me a C and not an A+, same with getting bad reviews or complaints for people who dislike Fable III. If you didn't put more effort into it, then why are you complaining that you didn't get results?

With people who dislike it, it wasn't that they "didn't get it", it's that they didn't like it. I don't know, this kind of smug, "it's not our fault our game isn't popular" bullshit really makes me not want to defend Lionhead.

Crapster said:
Actually, Fable III is not just a game. It's a brilliant study in good and evil!

In order to be truly good in the game, and get the good ending, you have to sink massive hours grinding for gold to save a bunch of obnoxious villagers that constantly provoke you into killing them with their terrible voices. The game is provoking you to be evil at every turn, and it takes real gumption to save all the people and be a good person at the end of the game. How far are you willing to go to be a hero?

The problem is video games are supposed to be fun. It should be possible to be a hero without everyone dying, and without wasting your time.
Was that sarcasm? "Brilliant study in good and evil"? I'm honestly not trying to be rude, because, as I said, I do like this game, but on my first playthrough, I was able to save everyone because I owned every house in Albion. All I had to do was leave my game on while I did school work or chatted on these forums and let the cash roll in. There goes your dilemma when money is so easy to obtain. It's a broken system. It would have worked better if you couldn't obtain money any other way than doing jobs and if renting out homes wasn't an option.
 

brendonnelly

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Aug 11, 2009
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Am I alone in loving all the fable games?
(granted, 2 was the best of all of them, save its cruddy difficulty.) In fact, 2 was brilliant. The way they made the villain was actually quite good for a video game. (for those who haven't played, he isn't an amazing final boss fight, he is just a misguided, weak man that you shoot in the chest and he falls to his death)
 

Woodsey

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"But it's the people who criticize the story that really bug him. "People saying the story wasn't very good was unfair. It's an interesting situation of you gather people together and then defeating the main bad guy. It's a pretty good story and it's pretty fun," he said."

Uuhh...

I feel for the guy, because it must be shit putting something out and having it trampled on, but really?
 

TwistedEllipses

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Nov 18, 2008
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Right. Checklist:
- Too easy, I was never knocked unconscious
- It didn't use my save from Fable 2 in any way
- 12 hours gameplay
- interaction with villagers via emotes
- ability to marry villagers after do fetch quests
- Polarised shallow moral choices
- story about forming a party to take down an evil, just like the last game (though granted with a twist)
- humour
- companions who provide in-game dialogue and help to fight
- "welcome to the sanctuary" everytime you go to fast travel
- tedious combat
- famous voice-actors
- nice aesthetics

Compared to say Mass Effect 2:
- Balanced difficulty settings
- Uses save game from Mass effect
- 30-40 hours gameplay
- interaction via dialogues
- ability to unlock a relationship through dialogue and a sidequest
- Polarised moral choice, but not always black and white ones
- story about forming a party to take down an evil, just like the last game (though a lot more fleshed out and incorporating other stories than fable 3)
- humour
- companions who provide in-game dialogue and help to fight
- "you have no new messages commander" everytime you go to fast travel
- tedious combat
- famous voice-actors
- nice aesthetics

Mass Effect 2 wins hands down.
 

Urazel

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Oct 6, 2010
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Only Co-op RPG my FOOT.
I can name RPGs from back in the mid 90s that had co-op play, AND IT WAS BETTER!
Try playing Secret of Mana or Seiken Densetsu III co-op on your SNES.
That was a Co-op RPG, you could play it single player with 2 AI, but you could play it Co-op and it was glorious.

And what, are we forgetting Never Winter Nights and it's sequel's/expansions exist?!
Those games thrived on their co-op RPG experience.

This is all baloney, I don't hate Fable III, but I do hate it when developers can't admit they were wrong about certain parts of their game.
 

putowtin

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Jul 7, 2010
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Wolfram01 said:
If it's better than Fable 1 I'll definitely get it. Sure they're not perfect games, but I love how pure FUN they are!
It's not better than Fable TLC, save yourself the pain and just replay Fable, enjoy the humour and the story and leave fable III alone.... it'll only break your heart (Trust me)
 

The Artificially Prolonged

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Jul 15, 2008
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Oh God, has everyone at Lionhead Studios got the same rose tinted glasses that Molyneux has, the denile here is off the charts. Fable is a decent series but the reason it gets so much hate is because it promises the Earth and never delivers. Lionhead seems to think they have created this deep immersive rpg adeventure. Where in reality Fable is an action game, with very light rpg elements, which is too easy to complete, too short, has loads of pointless/stupid innovations (what was wrong with inventory menus Fable 3) and has all the depth and immersion of a toddler's paddling pool.

captcha: urofour citizen
 

El Poncho

Techno Hippy will eat your soul!
May 21, 2009
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I didn't mind the story, they could of told it better I guess.

Near the end I was stuck for choice on what to do until I realised I could expose the monetary system and just wait a few hours.
 

ComicsAreWeird

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Oct 14, 2010
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He sure likes to complain a lot. Maybe he should spend all that energy in making better games. But at least we "learned" that Fable =/= LotR!
Heh.
 

Togs

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I think Mr West needs to check if his feet are wet, as he's knee deep in De Nile.
 

Archemetis

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Aug 13, 2008
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Some points:

Vocal talent not appreciated enough:

I'm going to take my experience from these very forums for this one, It was before Fable 3 was released, we were getting snippets of info from our beloved Mr. Molyneux concerning voice talent. He was just done telling us that John Cleese would be our butler...
I'll stop there because that was the moment when everyone collectively decided Fable was worth the money

Your voice talent isn't appreciated enough, Mr. West? Well how about this food for thought. Roughly half the people I see on this web-site wouldn't have considered buying the damn game if it wasn't for the inclusion of John Cleese...

They didn't get the story!:

What story? You mean the typical Fable-grade railroading that makes as little sense as it needs to? There is no story to be had in a series that since it's conception has boasted freedom of choice as it's one major mechanic.

So tell me where was all the choice in Fable 3? Was it when I was being forced to make promises I had no intention of making, let alone keeping? Was it when the black monstrosity from beyond was threatening my lands but for some reason I wasn't allowed to tell my citizens about it?

Or was it there again when you that never-ending 'plot-device' Thereasa showed up, just like I didn't want her to...

'It's an interesting situation of you gather people together and then defeating the main bad guy.

Right, So it's basically every Final Fantasy game ever made, then? Collect team-mates, defeat the amassing evil, world saved, heroes of the land, huzzah!

No, that's not a story.

Gamers thought they were playing a serious LotR-style game when they're really not!:

Well you said it, it's definitely not a Lord of the Rings style game...
Which is why no one has ever considered it to be a Lord of the Rings style game...

It's kind of silly that you'd even assume that of your audience, to be honest. Your audience who by now must be made of mostly the hardcore Lionhead fans, y'know the kind.

The ones that have been around since Fable 1 and I don't mean Lost Chapters Fable 1, I mean REAL Fable 1

Can't say I'm impressed that this guy seems to be taking entirely fair criticism so badly.
You'd think after effectively taking a huge step backwards with their game that they'd be ready for it.
 

saito82

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Oct 5, 2010
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will the story before you took the crown wasn't terrible after you became king it dropped the ball really bad. I think they need to rethink all those decisions you make and the concequences of each one because they we just stupid.