"Failed" sequels.

Arcane Azmadi

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Sequels. One of the most divisive topics in the gaming community. Some people think sequels are automatically signs of unoriginality and cheap cashing in, others merely relish the opportunity to play a new and improved version of a beloved older game. Even Yahtzee, our community's very own game-reviewing pirahna, has mixed feelings- while he loudly denounces sequels to all and sundry, his all-time favourite games include Silent Hill 2, Spider-Man 2, Half-Life 2 and Portal... which is getting a sequel that Valve say will be their best game ever. This may lead you to determine that sequels can be divided into "good sequels" and "bad sequels", but I hold out there is a third subdivision- "failed sequels".

A good sequel is supposed to do one of two things. 1: It's supposed to do pretty much the same things as the previous game, but with enough improvements and interesting features to make you want to play it and enjoy it more than the original- in other words, the same but better (examples include Civilization II, Shadow Hearts: Covenant and Dynasty Warriors 3). 2: It's supposed to technically be a sequel, but does things radically differently to the extent that it can be assessed on its own merits, rather than automatically compared to its predecessor (examples include Half-Life 2, Street Fighter III and pretty much ANY Final Fantasy game).

In light of this, a "failed sequel" is a type 1 sequel which is basically the same as its predecessor but when you play it you cannot say that it is better than the original. If you have ANY reason to go back and play the original again when you own the sequel other than to reexperience the story or specific levels for nostalgia value, then the sequel has failed. I coined this term when playing what I consider one of the most blatant failed sequels I have ever owned- Super Smash Bros Brawl. Now I may be pilloried for this, but although it has new characters, new content (Subspace Emissary et al) and a bunch of other new stuff, it simply doesn't PLAY as well as Melee. The action was slowed down, all the characters' jumps are too floaty, the character balance was utterly shot to hell and I'll NEVER forgive the idiot who introduced the "randomly slipping-and-falling-on-your-face" mechanic. Melee came out two years after the original Super Smash Bros and absolutely blew it out of the water, being one of the best sequels ever. Brawl came out seven years after Melee, but I simply don't think it's as good. That is what makes it, in my mind, a "failed sequel".

Other failed sequels include Modern Warfare 2, Devil May Cry 2, Supreme Commander 2 and if Yahtzee is to be believed (I haven't played it) Bioshock 2. Yahtzee in fact went into quite some depth about this phenomenon in his Bioshock 2 review when he noted that Bioshock 2 wouldn't even appeal to fans of the original since it brought nothing really good to the table and instead actually degraded the first game by its existence.

Note that a "failed sequel" is not necessarily a "bad game" (although it can be). Brawl is a good game. I'd even go so far as to say that it's a great game. But it still "fails" as a sequel because it's not as good as the absolutely stellar Melee. Also please note that the following are not "failed sequels": type 2 sequels that try something radically different which isn't as fun as the original (like Dawn of War 2 or Xenosaga II) or expansion packs (of COURSE Half-Life: Blue Shift isn't as good as Half-Life- it's an expansion!)

What are YOUR failed sequels?
 

Kuchinawa212

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I hear ToS 2 isn't as good as the original as it has the creature capture system and has cameos of main characters but isn't completely focused on them , but (SHOCKINGLY) I haven't played it. Does that count? =/

or something like this? http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.182737-The-Fallout-Debate#5434692
 

Terry576

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Can I have a rant about how Sonic is the cheapest character ever?
No? Damn.

My failed sequel was FFTA2. The laws were shot to HELL, and Luso was just a crappy carbon copy of Marche, who was epic, and had y'know flaws, and character development.
 

Fenreil

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Kuchinawa212 said:
I hear ToS 2 isn't as good as the original, but (SHOCKINGLY) I haven't played it. Does that count? =/
Yes.

I disagree with OP on Brawl and Bioshock 2, but I can clearly see where he's coming from. Bioshock 2 wasn't anywhere near as good as it should have been, but I still enjoyed it.

I guess I'm just not a videogame cynic by nature. The rest of the world, sure.
 

Terry576

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Gee Lupus, you're obviously a mature and classy guy.

Fenreil said:
Kuchinawa212 said:
I hear ToS 2 isn't as good as the original, but (SHOCKINGLY) I haven't played it. Does that count? =/
Yes.

I disagree with OP on Brawl and Bioshock 2, but I can clearly see where he's coming from. Bioshock 2 wasn't anywhere near as good as it should have been, but I still enjoyed it.

I guess I'm just not a videogame cynic by nature. The rest of the world, sure.
Did you play Melee?
 

Ultress

Volcano Girl
Feb 5, 2009
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I don't think I can say it enough Wild Arms 4 took everything that made Wild Arms 3 awesome and replaced it with bland and platforming. Note I love platformers but If I wanted that I would go play a Mario game not a game where an annoying twat has to vocalize his every jump.
 

wooty

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Aug 1, 2009
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Bioshock 2 would stand out, because to me it was bioshock 1 but without any intrigue or interesting situations. Certainly didnt add anything radical to the gameplay to merit it being a sequel, maybe more along the lines of an expansion.
 

Georgie_Leech

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About your comment about seeing Brawl as not better than Melee...

Part of the problem is that Melee was such an awesome game, so there was little to be done to improve on it. However, I have Brawl, and a between a friend and I, several hundred hours on the game. At one point, we didn't have access to Brawl and went back to Melee just 'cause we wanted a zany fighter. We spent most of the matches reflecting on how much we missed features of brawl like smoother air dodges, more varied characters, lots of new stages, being able to grab on to ledges regardless of the direction you were facing, lots of music, final smashes, assist trophies, new pokemon...

I think that the improvement as from a 90% awesome game to a 92%. There wasn't much to improve on in the multiplayer experience, but dagnabbit, they managed to do it anyway.
 

SantoUno

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Anyone who mentions KOTOR 2 gets their throat slit by me.

Sadly someone will still say it, and I will just sit here and keep enjoying KOTOR 2 regardless.

Seriously it may be people's opinion, but I don't understand how people keep praising only the first one when the second one had far better and improved gameplay as well as a much deeper story and universe.
 

Fenreil

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Terry576 said:
Gee Lupus, you're obviously a mature and classy guy.

Fenreil said:
Kuchinawa212 said:
I hear ToS 2 isn't as good as the original, but (SHOCKINGLY) I haven't played it. Does that count? =/
Yes.

I disagree with OP on Brawl and Bioshock 2, but I can clearly see where he's coming from. Bioshock 2 wasn't anywhere near as good as it should have been, but I still enjoyed it.

I guess I'm just not a videogame cynic by nature. The rest of the world, sure.
Did you play Melee?
Hoh, yes. We played the shit out of Melee and the original Smash. When we eventually played Melee after Brawl, I missed a lot of the new features, and noticed just how fast everything was. No, Brawl is definitely an upgrade in my eyes.
 

Soviet Heavy

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Furburt said:
I'm going to risk flame here and say that I consider Dawn Of War 2 to be a failed sequel. That's not to say it's a bad game, but for someone like me who enjoyed the original for its epic and bombastic battles and its all around over the topness, having the second game get lodged awkwardly between Company Of Heroes squad tactics, the original games setting and a strange RPG like system just makes it inferior. They lost the best thing about Dawn Of War, the sense of scale and the ferocity of a huge battle.

Obviously, opinions vary, but that's mine.
Agreed, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying both games on their own merits. If DOW2 was simply renamed Warhammer 40000, Kill Team, or something along those lines, you would treat it as its own game, rather than a sequel.

But as it is, I still enjoy both games, even if I have yet to buy Chaos Rising.

I leave the work to the modders to bring back the massive scale battles of the first. Just give'em a little time.
 

Soviet Heavy

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SantoUno said:
Anyone who mentions KOTOR 2 gets their throat slit by me.

Sadly someone will still say it, and I will just sit here and keep enjoying KOTOR 2 regardless.

Seriously it may be people's opinion, but I don't understand how people keep praising only the first one when the second one had far better and improved gameplay as well as a much deeper story and universe.
KOTOR 2 is my favourite Star Wars game, period. The ending is shot to hell, but that is no longer an issue. Do you have the PC version? Here's a mod that will give you the proper KOTOR 2 experience.

The Sith Lords Restored Content Mod.
http://knightsoftheoldrepublic.filefront.com/file/TSL_Restored_Content_Mod;111657

Trust me, this mod is worth it. The game is infinitely superior, and is a worthy competitor with the first game.
 

QuickDEMOL1SHER

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Resistance 2, Resistance 2 and Resistance 2.

OH! Also Resistance 2. As well as Resistance 2.

Did I mention Resistance 2?
 

Lolth17

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Nov 10, 2009
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No one's going to mention Spyro? Okay, I will. Everything after Year of the Dragon killed the series.

Also, NWN2 was a piece of steaming s**t. I loved the first one so much and I couldn't even get through half of the second :(((
 

SantoUno

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Soviet Heavy said:
KOTOR 2 is my favourite Star Wars game, period. The ending is shot to hell, but that is no longer an issue. Do you have the PC version? Here's a mod that will give you the proper KOTOR 2 experience.

The Sith Lords Restored Content Mod.
http://knightsoftheoldrepublic.filefront.com/file/TSL_Restored_Content_Mod;111657

Trust me, this mod is worth it. The game is infinitely superior, and is a worthy competitor with the first game.
No I have the xbox disc, I want to get the PC version to try and play the restored content but I don't know if my laptop can run it well.
 

Aura Guardian

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Arcane Azmadi said:
I coined this term when playing what I consider one of the most blatant failed sequels I have ever owned- Super Smash Bros Brawl. Now I may be pilloried for this, but although it has new characters, new content (Subspace Emissary et al) and a bunch of other new stuff, it simply doesn't PLAY as well as Melee. The action was slowed down, all the characters' jumps are too floaty, the character balance was utterly shot to hell and I'll NEVER forgive the idiot who introduced the "randomly slipping-and-falling-on-your-face" mechanic. Melee came out two years after the original Super Smash Bros and absolutely blew it out of the water, being one of the best sequels ever. Brawl came out seven years after Melee, but I simply don't think it's as good. That is what makes it, in my mind, a "failed sequel".
I love Brawl over Melee. Brawl is not a failed sequel.
Fenreil said:
Terry576 said:
Gee Lupus, you're obviously a mature and classy guy.

Fenreil said:
Kuchinawa212 said:
I hear ToS 2 isn't as good as the original, but (SHOCKINGLY) I haven't played it. Does that count? =/
Yes.

I disagree with OP on Brawl and Bioshock 2, but I can clearly see where he's coming from. Bioshock 2 wasn't anywhere near as good as it should have been, but I still enjoyed it.

I guess I'm just not a videogame cynic by nature. The rest of the world, sure.
Did you play Melee?
Hoh, yes. We played the shit out of Melee and the original Smash. When we eventually played Melee after Brawl, I missed a lot of the new features, and noticed just how fast everything was. No, Brawl is definitely an upgrade in my eyes.
Here here!!!
 

Terry576

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Okay, lemme put it this way:

Try fighting as Link/one of the now underpowered characters against Sonic.

Sonic is the cheapest bastard I have ever seen. His damned Smash Ball special goes on for like 3 minutes, or about FOUR LIVES.
 

Generator

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Lolth17 said:
No one's going to mention Spyro? Okay, I will. Everything after Year of the Dragon killed the series.
That's because nothing after Year of the Dragon existed. ...It didn't! My therapist told me so!

OT: I feel like Going Commando was the best PS2 Ratchet & Clank game, and Up Your Arsenal, while still good, didn't quite reach the standards that its predecessor set. Not to mention Deadlocked (probably the worst of the series).