Fallout 3 not a 'proper' Fallout game?

[ChupathingyX]

The radiation I looked passed for one simple reasaon, that world operates under different natural laws, if your going to complain about that you should complain about the super mutant, ghouls, rad-scorpions and the rest of them, its a world where Science! rules the day to day operation not science.

*Sigh*

I'm really, really starting to sick of hearing stuff like this.

Fallout is a sci-fi, it uses real world science and skews it for its own purpose. That does not mean that the developers are free to do whatever the hell they want with it, this is not the Force!

That is one of the reasons why Fallout 3's story was bad, because it completely ignored basic science, you don't need some massive machine to purify water and after 200 years most of the radiation would be gone anyway.

Vegas was bombed by nukes too, not directly but the area around, but there isn't massive amounts of radiation everywhere and the water is all mostly clean, as it should be. Not to mention the plants have begun to grow back, why haven't they in Fallout 3, why are all the plants still dead?

 

[sms_117b]

By what you're saying, playing the previous ones may even reduce my enjoyment of FO3, now why on Earth would I want that?

Well you know what they say, ignorance is bliss

Only sometimes LordRoyal, only sometimes...luckily gaming canon for me is one of those times
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Now where's my bleeding flame shield...ahhhh yes, it was wooden....forgot about that....Kiiif!?

By what you're saying, playing the previous ones may even reduce my enjoyment of FO3, now why on Earth would I want that?

Truman was pretty happy too.

He was to a point, then his curiosity and random falling stage lights got the better of him.

 

[SpaceBat]

Fallout 3 was a great game on it's own, but the writing was bad. The dialogue was atrocious, the story was rubbish, and it just felt completely out of the rest of the Fallout universe.

Don't forget the flawed karma system.

 

[LordRoyal]

Fallout 3 was a great game on it's own, but the writing was bad. The dialogue was atrocious, the story was rubbish, and it just felt completely out of the rest of the Fallout universe.

Don't forget the flawed karma system.

The thing I hated the most about the Karma system was it contradicted how the originals portrayed the antagonist characters. Like the Master being just misunderstood and increasingly logical, not just downright evil like the Enclave were portrayed in Fallout 3

 

[TheEvilCheese]

Fallout 3 was a great game on it's own, but the writing was bad. The dialogue was atrocious, the story was rubbish, and it just felt completely out of the rest of the Fallout universe.

^this. Forever this.

But its atmosphere just seemed to work despite being horribly constructed in theory.
Also, Liberty Prime was a large factor in why some people thought it was so good. I mean, giant robot provides covering fire and huge destructive power for big climactic battle ? yes.

 

[veloper]

I suppose what the originals have in their favour is that they are hard, for WRPGs, but the hard mostly comes from random rolls that are fatal. Just reload.
Real challenge, not so much.
The only real strategy is to follow NPC directions early on, so you'll go pass through the easier areas first, building your PC for mobility and APs along the way.
The only real FO1 tactic is to look for corners, then move around corner, shoot baddies, retrace steps, end turn, repeat.
In FO2 you can also defeat some strong melee critters, by attacking and moving out of range in one turn. It's all about AGI.

What's left is a great setting, good atmosphere, nice dialogue and some C&C.
The amount of freedom you had and the way the game reacted to your choices set the bar for RPGs at the time, but it has been surpaced since in that area by games like Arcanum.

So Fallout 3: copies most of the setting, retains some atmosphere, bad dialogue and some shallow black-or-white game consequences. Add a crappy lineair plot. Combat improves from terrible to poor.

I don't know why you believed Fallout's combat was particularly hard. Most of the difficulties in combat stemmed from how you created your character.

Most of the reloads or near deaths stem from unlucky rolls, like a SM with a minigun getting a lucky roll that entirely bypasses your power armor. Crap like that.
It's hard for a new player who doesn't know what he's doing, as the game won't hold your hand.
Hard is relative I suppose. It's hard compared to modern Bioware games. It's hard compared to Fallout 3.

With regards to Arcanum you know it was developed by some of the same developers correct? Plus it plays practically the same as Fallout just with a horribly broken combat system. Fallout's combat was replayable because you could beat the game effectively as a melee exclusive user just as easily as a ranged weapons user. You just needed to allocate your points accordingly. In Arcanum the game was twice as easy playing a magic user/melee weapons user then a tech/ranged weapons user.

Another game that could have been absolutely great, if the combat system didn't suck.

With Fallout 3 the biggest problem I felt was how consolised the combat felt. I never felt like I was actually getting better at combat, just that my bullets were doing more damage for some reason. Not to mention I was fully convinced that my bullets were just BBs after headshotting a Raider 10 times and not even flinching. If you think Fallout's strategies were low, how do you compare to Fallout 3's VATS into a room and just absorb bullets as you take only 10% damage from them?

VATS is temporary god mode. The thing is you can play FO3 as a shooter and not use VATS. As such FO3 doesn't need the tactical depth, that turn-based game would. It's still too clunky for a true FPS, but I never said it was good.

I reckon the game would have been better if the devs actually had consolized it even more, instead of this half-assed way it is now. I can appreciate stupid fun action game, almost as much as a good strategy game.
Now it's not a good shooter and not a good RPG.

 

[sms_117b]

*Sigh*

I'm really, really starting to sick of hearing stuff like this.

Fallout is a sci-fi, it uses real world science and skews it for its own purpose. That does not mean that the developers are free to do whatever the hell they want with it, this is not the Force!

That is one of the reasons why Fallout 3's story was bad, because it completely ignored basic science, you don't need some massive machine to purify water and after 200 years most of the radiation would be gone anyway.

Vegas was bombed by nukes too, not directly but the area around, but there isn't massive amounts of radiation everywhere and the water is all mostly clean, as it should be. Not to mention the plants have begun to grow back, why haven't they in Fallout 3, why are all the plants still dead?

Spoiler: I would argue a point, but my lack of canon knowlege may fail me, click to see it

No, radiation in the Fallout Universe is fundementally different to our own, it does not mutate people, it does in the Fallout Universe, so as far as I'm concerned yes, they can do whatever the hell else they want with it because it's not governed by actual science.

The second fact, the difference between the capital wasteland and mohave wastes....I never noticed, probably beacuse I only notice how glitchy the game was, never know NV could be set after FO3 with the purifier working better than expected haha

 

[Cowabungaa]

The only current developer who can make a good Fallout game is Obsidian, you have to remember that Obsidian is made up of people from Black Isle so they know the Fallout universe.

Only if they're not forced by their publisher to rush things, leading to horrid bug-fests as New Vegas and plain unfinished games like KotOR2.

It's a double shame knowing that NV had it's heart in the right place a lot more than Fallout 3.

 

[kingcom]

Spoiler: I would argue a point, but my lack of canon knowlege may fail me, click to see it

No, radiation in the Fallout Universe is fundementally different to our own, it does not mutate people, it does in the Fallout Universe, so as far as I'm concerned yes, they can do whatever the hell else they want with it because it's not governed by actual science.

The second fact, the difference between the capital wasteland and mohave wastes....I never noticed, probably beacuse I only notice how glitchy the game was, never know NV could be set after FO3 with the purifier working better than expected haha

Its the Forced Evolution Virus, changed by radiation that mutates people. Different levels of radiation causes the mutation to be different.

Also, when Fawkes is identified as being able to specificlly walk into a room with enough radiation to kill you and get the GECK, so the game actually explains that hes immune to radiation, and then is unwilling to do so at a later stage is, hilariously poor writing at best. I can absolutely see a tester noticing this and explaining it to the devs and them quickly coding in a new single line of dialogue about "this is your destiny! Thats why you have to go in and die for no reason."

Also on New Vegas, they are on other sides of the continent so one will not influence the other

EDIT: Linking the timeline jsut in case you becoem curious, actually somewhat of an exciting read:http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline

 

[Chibz]

Also, when Fawkes is identified as being able to specificlly walk into a room with enough radiation to kill you and get the GECK, so the game actually explains that hes immune to radiation, and then is unwilling to do so at a later stage is, hilariously poor writing at best. I can absolutely see a tester noticing this and explaining it to the devs and them quickly coding in a new single line of dialogue about "this is your destiny! Thats why you have to go in and die for no reason."

Actually, one of the DLC fixes his unwillingness to go in instead of you. Charon can, too. Pretty sure the robit can. It's immune to radiation. I think the real reason they did this was (again) a moral choice. Do you have someone go in and die, or die yourself in their place?

With Fallout 3 the biggest problem I felt was how consolised the combat felt.

And you just lost any privilege to be taken seriously. Come back when you aren't a PC supremacist, mkay?

Also, why do people call New Vegas buggy/glitchy? I've never noticed a single bug/glitch/etc in the game. Not once. What's the beef?!

 

[sms_117b]

Spoiler: I would argue a point, but my lack of canon knowlege may fail me, click to see it

No, radiation in the Fallout Universe is fundementally different to our own, it does not mutate people, it does in the Fallout Universe, so as far as I'm concerned yes, they can do whatever the hell else they want with it because it's not governed by actual science.

The second fact, the difference between the capital wasteland and mohave wastes....I never noticed, probably beacuse I only notice how glitchy the game was, never know NV could be set after FO3 with the purifier working better than expected haha

Its the Forced Evolution Virus, changed by radiation that mutates people. Different levels of radiation causes the mutation to be different.

Also, when Fawkes is identified as being able to specificlly walk into a room with enough radiation to kill you and get the GECK, so the game actually explains that hes immune to radiation, and then is unwilling to do so at a later stage is, hilariously poor writing at best. I can absolutely see a tester noticing this and explaining it to the devs and them quickly coding in a new single line of dialogue about "this is your destiny! Thats why you have to go in and die for no reason."

apart from you havn't contracted it, and doing Moira's Wasteland Suvival Guide quest to the best of your ability causes you body to mutate, that is unless she used the FEV on you...

This I didn't experiance, yes it's absolutly terrible writting, but by the time I brought a companion to the Purifier, Broken Steel had been released, I hated the companions, Fawkes only came along because I forgot to leave him at home....

Depends on how much time has past and how much radiated water is purified per second (it's highly doubtful that it would impact it true, but the point can still be made)

 

[rvbnut]

New Vegas is definately closer to F1 and F2 than F3. More humour and little quirks.
Fallout 3 didn't have the charm as new vegas.

But 3 was made be bethesda so we can't blame them too much.

 

[kingcom]

Also, when Fawkes is identified as being able to specificlly walk into a room with enough radiation to kill you and get the GECK, so the game actually explains that hes immune to radiation, and then is unwilling to do so at a later stage is, hilariously poor writing at best. I can absolutely see a tester noticing this and explaining it to the devs and them quickly coding in a new single line of dialogue about "this is your destiny! Thats why you have to go in and die for no reason."

Actually, one of the DLC fixes his unwillingness to go in instead of you. Charon can, too. Pretty sure the robit can. It's immune to radiation. I think the real reason they did this was (again) a moral choice. Do you have someone go in and die, or die yourself in their place?

Also, why do people call New Vegas buggy/glitchy? I've never noticed a single bug/glitch/etc in the game. Not once. What's the beef?!

I am aware of Broken Steel. It doesn't excuse their failure to create the most tensionless climax in a game i've ever experienced. I hope your joking about New Vegas not being buggy, sarcasm is not easy to see on the internet.

Its the Forced Evolution Virus, changed by radiation that mutates people. Different levels of radiation causes the mutation to be different.

Also, when Fawkes is identified as being able to specificlly walk into a room with enough radiation to kill you and get the GECK, so the game actually explains that hes immune to radiation, and then is unwilling to do so at a later stage is, hilariously poor writing at best. I can absolutely see a tester noticing this and explaining it to the devs and them quickly coding in a new single line of dialogue about "this is your destiny! Thats why you have to go in and die for no reason."

apart from you havn't contracted it, and doing Moira's Wasteland Suvival Guide quest to the best of your ability causes you body to mutate, that is unless she used the FEV on you...

This I didn't experiance, yes it's absolutly terrible writting, but by the time I brought a companion to the Purifier, Broken Steel had been released, I hated the companions, Fawkes only came along because I forgot to leave him at home....

Depends on how much time has past and how much radiated water is purified per second (it's highly doubtful that it would impact it true, but the point can still be made)

Moira also survived a thermal nuclear detonation at ground zero. So nuclear bombs dont hurt people? How did she survive when nobody else did? Does kinetic energy not harm physical material? How are you killing people with guns? See it doesnt make a hell of a lot of sense, thats kinda FO3's problem.

See this is what I think went on for most people, they didnt notice/see/experience many of the problems other people felt, hence why they don't get what many of the complaints are about.


Since its only purifying the basin. Its physically impossible to make any difference...on the other side of the continent in just 3 years, even less if you consider the NCR and the Strip have existed LONG before the Vault Dweller Mk2 fixed the purifier.

 

[ChupathingyX]

Spoiler: I would argue a point, but my lack of canon knowlege may fail me, click to see it

No, radiation in the Fallout Universe is fundementally different to our own, it does not mutate people, it does in the Fallout Universe, so as far as I'm concerned yes, they can do whatever the hell else they want with it because it's not governed by actual science.

FEV is more responsible for muatations than radiation is, and no they can't do whatever they want with it or else Fallout would become a fantasy game where instead of "because of magic" being the answer, "because of radiation" would be the answer.

The second fact, the difference between the capital wasteland and mohave wastes....I never noticed, probably beacuse I only notice how glitchy the game was, never know NV could be set after FO3 with the purifier working better than expected haha

1. Mojave*

2. Nevada and Washington DC are on opposite sides of America, they barely have any influence one each other.

3. Complaining about glitches? I thought we were all more mature than that, but I guess I'll just have to add that;
a) Obsidian were using Betehsda already horrible engine
b) Bethesda did most of the QA testing, not Obsidian.

If you want to point fingers when it comes to glitches, point at Bethesda.

 

[Chibz]

I hope your joking about New Vegas not being buggy, sarcasm is not easy to see on the internet.

I can only report what I see, and I never once experienced a bug in New Vegas. I'd like to add that I rented the game the week it came out, and played it unpatched. Played through the main story (sided with House) on hardcore mode. Never once experienced a bug. So I can honestly say I don't see why most people complain.

If you want to point fingers when it comes to glitches, point at Bethesda.

Which glitches? I've yet to see one.

Wait... I suppose I did. The pip-boy makes me think of something else...

Spoiler: Glitch, cameo!

 

[Strazdas]

Well i played all 3 games one after another and i liked all 3. problem was that with windows 7 compactability isnt really that compactable and i had a lot of crashes in 1 and 2 which kicked the immersion a bit i guess. no such problems in 3 but yeah it may be a bit less on the humour but you have to realize a lot of time has passed and things changed and thus the game wont be the same nor will the audience. all in all, i think this was a good game and worthy of its release, even if i wouldnt have called it game of the year myself.

 

[LordRoyal]

VATS is temporary god mode. The thing is you can play FO3 as a shooter and not use VATS. As such FO3 doesn't need the tactical depth, that turn-based game would. It's still too clunky for a true FPS, but I never said it was good.

I typically don't enjoy having to have house rules inorder to actually enjoy playing the game. I mean New Vegas did a very good job of nerfing VATs by making you take full damage when you triggered it.

I hope your joking about New Vegas not being buggy, sarcasm is not easy to see on the internet.

I can only report what I see, and I never once experienced a bug in New Vegas. I'd like to add that I rented the game the week it came out, and played it unpatched. Played through the main story (sided with House) on hardcore mode. Never once experienced a bug. So I can honestly say I don't see why most people complain.

If you want to point fingers when it comes to glitches, point at Bethesda.

Which glitches? I've yet to see one.

Wait... I suppose I did. The pip-boy makes me think of something else...

Spoiler: Glitch, cameo!

I still remember buying the game on release date on Steam, being really excited to play the game, and having ram bugs up the ass and noticing that I couldn't run the game even on it's lowest setting without my entire processor crashing. I remember having to download a special .dll on Fallout New Vegas Nexus inorder to actually play the game properly until Obsidian released a patch that actually fixed it.

Yeah Fallout New Vegas was buggy as shit, if you don't believe it just look at what specifically the patches fix on the wiki. I mean just down to the fixes to quests.

Well i played all 3 games one after another and i liked all 3. problem was that with windows 7 compactability isnt really that compactable and i had a lot of crashes in 1 and 2 which kicked the immersion a bit i guess. no such problems in 3 but yeah it may be a bit less on the humour but you have to realize a lot of time has passed and things changed and thus the game wont be the same nor will the audience. all in all, i think this was a good game and worthy of its release, even if i wouldnt have called it game of the year myself.

If compatability is a problem you can just buy Fallout 1, 2 and Tactics on Gog.com. Where they are fully compatible with modern operating systems and only cost 6$.

Bare in mind that Starcraft 2 sold millions of copies, and it catered to the exact same market the original game did. Sure would a modern TBS top down Fallout sell? No. But Fallout 3 wasn't precisely top notch.

 

[ChupathingyX]

If you want to point fingers when it comes to glitches, point at Bethesda.

Which glitches? I've yet to see one.

When it comes to glitches everyone is different, I personally have never encountered any quest breaking glitches, the worst I ever got was freezing which is easily fixed.

What I was trying to say is that when it comes to glitches in New Vegas people seem to ignore the fact that Obsidian had to use Betehsda's engine which was already crap and full of bugs, yet everyone still blames Obsidian for it even though they didn't create it.

 

[Chibz]

I still remember buying the game on release date on Steam

That's probably the problem right there. Almost everyone I know who complains about bugs played it on PC. Odd.

When it comes to glitches everyone is different, I personally have never encountered any quest breaking glitches, the worst I ever got was freezing which is easily fixed.

Just checked. Boyfriend claims he saw my copy freeze on his system one time. So I guess they do exist, despite me never experiencing them firsthand.

 

[Vault101]

well at least people seem to be reasonalbe about it instead of

"OMG! fallout 3 sucked Bethedesa RUINED IT FOREVER you RUINED MY LIFE!"

I mean yeah I can see how the original fallout is great nad everything...but I dont think I could sit down and play it