Fallout 4 Review - Post-Apocalyptic Warlord Simulator 2287

[urishima]

The dumbed down dialoge system just breaks my heart. I mean, I kinda saw it coming, but it's still incredibly disappointing.

Welp, imma stick with New Vegas for now.

 

[Conrad Zimmerman]

I can't confirm prostitution, as I haven't run across it (and I wouldn't say the inclusion of it makes a game mature; hate it when used as a catch-all for sexual content, as sexual content can be totally juvenile) but the game does feature some romance options that can develop with companions, and you can be in a polyamorous relationship, so it's really kind of progressive in some ways.

If you haven't come across it in 60 hours, I'd say it's safe to assume that it's not there - good to know.

To me it's part of the setting, it's something that belongs in a dystopian world where your survival hinges on what's available to you. It's not unreasonable to include at all and the absence of it is telling.
I don't see how it can't be mature because we know that there wouldn't be any porn included anyway, which was never the point - none of the previous games had sexual content in them (any that you'd see anyway).
The potential sexual visuals don't interest me, but I do care whether building a settlement and having prostitutes would have an effect, such as heightening morale and making settlers work harder.

It's certainly setting appropriate and, I agree, it wouldn't be unreasonable to see included. Having prostitution as a settlement feature, however, that might be a bit more exploitative than I think anybody would take a risk on, let alone a major publisher.

Believe it or not, Fallout is still an RPG, and Fallout 3 was too. The application of first-person shooting in combat doesn't invalidate the RPG elements of a game.

Technically, you're right. In practice however, the time spent making the shooter portion work (which you wrote it didn't in many cases) means less money for the other departments.
Besides that, there's certainly something to be said for immersion and how playing it as an FPS has a large influence on how you perceive the world.

I think that's a pretty simplified view on how game development works. It isn't necessarily just a money/time budgeting issue. It could simply be the developer putting effort where it thinks efforts are best applied. I certainly wouldn't want to assume anything about that process.

If you hated the direction Fallout 3 went, then I wouldn't even bother. Just go No Mutants Allowed and grumble with the other people who have been left behind.

The entitlement of my fandom is very strong, I agree. Too bad it's often seen as all negative, when there are several very valid points to the grumbling
It's interesting that you say I shouldn't bother at all though, I take it the story and setting is that bad?

If you're an old school Fallout fan and hated what happend with Fallout 3, you'll probably hate this too. It goes further in directions established by that game. There are too many games out there, in my view, to waste time on something that you no longer like.

 

[Cowabungaa]

Believe it or not, Fallout is still an RPG, and Fallout 3 was too. The application of first-person shooting in combat doesn't invalidate the RPG elements of a game.

Indeed, but other elements do seem to have that effect. What I loved about Fallout: New Vegas was the pretty decent variation of quest resolutions it gave us. Reading now that the dialogue system has been so dumbed down makes me fear that the game has also become more linear. Is that true? And are there really only a few Charisma checks in dialogue now, instead of the myriad of skill and attribute checks we're used to?

Also, I heard that the Karma system has been largely replaced by likes/dislikes by companions. That's fine with me. But does that also include settlements and/or factions? Or is the world largely indifferent to your exploits this time around?

Look, I don't care that you enjoyed Fallout 3, but I hate what you represent - a new generation of people that probably screwed up the entire IP forever.

I can't help it but:

 

[Conrad Zimmerman]

Believe it or not, Fallout is still an RPG, and Fallout 3 was too. The application of first-person shooting in combat doesn't invalidate the RPG elements of a game.

Indeed, but other elements do seem to have that effect. What I loved about Fallout: New Vegas was the pretty decent variation of quest resolutions it gave us. Reading now that the dialogue system has been so dumbed down makes me fear that the game has also become more linear. Is that true? And are there really only a few Charisma checks in dialogue now, instead of the myriad of skill and attribute checks we're used to?

It's not *entirely* linear, in that you can have some quest lines closed off based on actions you take. But, yes, there is a more noticeable lack of alternate resolutions. Persuasion in dialogue seems solely based on Charisma, likely down to the merging of Skills and Perks as much as the decision to move to a more Mass Effect style interface. That's my biggest sticking point with the game and, while it doesn't ruin the experience of playing it, it does have an impact on potential replay value.

[Also, I heard that the Karma system has been largely replaced by likes/dislikes by companions. That's fine with me. But does that also include settlements and/or factions? Or is the world largely indifferent to your exploits this time around?

Factions will still cut you off from quest lines and their resources if you act in a manner not befitting membership. Settlements have their own "happiness" rating, which really only seems to impact their productivity.

 

[Pinky's Brain]

I can live with the atrocious interior graphics. I kinda like the paired down perk system.

Why is everyone going with the button specific dialogue with hints though? I could see always having one bland response being on a fixed button, but at least give the dialogue writers flexibility on the rest and show the player what they are saying. Blah.

 

[urishima]

Having prostitution as a settlement feature, however, that might be a bit more exploitative than I think anybody would take a risk on, let alone a major publisher.

Nonsense, it was OK in New Vegas. We had a Ghoul dominatrix, FFS. If it isn't ok now, then only because the publisher is a bloody coward.

 

[Jeremy Dawkins]

The real fans

Oh don't pull that No True Scotsman ploy. I got into the series on Fallout 3, loved New Vegas, tried to go back to 1 and 2 and thought they were boring as sin. Do I have to revoke my true Fallout fan card?

Yes it does (edit - it does mean you should revoke your fandom card). I'm not joking.
It's like people who were introduced to Star Wars through chapter I-III and want more content to revolve around Jarjar Binks.

Look, I don't care that you enjoyed Fallout 3, but I hate what you represent - a new generation of people that probably screwed up the entire IP forever.
Yes, you might be like one of my friends, just as old as I am and just didn't happen to play the originals when they came out - It doesn't matter, because it comes down to the absence of appreciation of the work - in your case you don't even know the REAL work.

It's not a no-true-scotsman fallacy when we're two very different fans of two very different kind of games. The difference is that your fandom is based on a sandbox game with little to it.

So you're getting mad at people who bought and liked Fallout 3 and New Vegas, for them not making games in the style of the originals? That's fair and rational.

 

[Elfgore]

Sounds amazing, even with the changes I'm iffy on. *glances at dialogue system*. But I'll found out how I like it around midnight tonight when I play the game for 20 hours straight.

 

[Conrad Zimmerman]

Having prostitution as a settlement feature, however, that might be a bit more exploitative than I think anybody would take a risk on, let alone a major publisher.

Nonsense, it was OK in New Vegas. We had a Ghoul dominatrix, FFS. If it isn't ok now, then only because the publisher is a bloody coward.

I'm not talking about the existence of prostitution. I'm referring to the idea of the player performing essentially the role of a pimp by making it a commercial aspect of settlements built by the player. It's just a step I can't see any game taking.

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

Fine. Though if that's what it means to be a true fallout fan, my true fallout fan card doesn't really seem to have much value. That's a strawman fallacy, considering Jar-Jar was never really the focus considering he had a reduced role in II and never spoke in III. Even his role in I was just a supporting character.

PFT! Oh please. The IP was DEAD before Fallout 3 came out. It was either Fallout 3 or no new Fallout games at all. So either you were expecting a type of Fallout that wasn't going to happen or the existance of 3 somehow (Oh and please tell me how Brotherhood of Steel didn't screw up the franchise)

Oh. I know the real work. I own the classic Fallouts. I tried to play them. They were boring. I imagine they have great stories but I can't get to them because of how bored out of my skull the make me. I'm still interested in the characters, I know who The Master, Marcus and Frank Horrigan are, I know what Vault City is and that Vault 12 is mainly populated by ghouls. I'd know more if the game hadn't aged to horribly. I want to finish those games one day but it reflects poorly on a game when you essentially have to force yourself to play it.

Little to it? I'm sorry, I didn't imagine that massive expansive world in Fallout New Vegas, complete with countless fleshed out factions, well developed companions, a world that was painstakingly based on the real life Mojave, with a main conflict that was much more complicated than NCR good Legion bad, in a world that just felt alive. You're thinking of Fall out 3, which I just moderately like, and not Fallout New Vegas, which I downright love. In fact, New Vegas made me think 3 was just mediocre by comparison. It's gameplay is fun but its story was just bleh. Also no, still a no True Scotsman fallacy. You basically just said that it just doesn't apply to your example.

Frankly New Vegas is the best fallout game as far as I'm concerned. It has the gameplay of 3 and the story of 1 & 2

 

[urishima]

It's not *entirely* linear, in that you can have some quest lines closed off based on actions you take. But, yes, there is a more noticeable lack of alternate resolutions. Persuasion in dialogue seems solely based on Charisma, likely down to the merging of Skills and Perks as much as the decision to move to a more Mass Effect style interface. That's my biggest sticking point with the game and, while it doesn't ruin the experience of playing it, it does have an impact on potential replay value.

I would say taht the move to the ME style dialog interface is the main culprit here. DA:Origins had huge complexity in it's dialog options and the impact those had on the progression of the story, and it only had a Stat + Perk system just like Fallout 4 does now (correct me if I am wrong).

It just comes down to the conversation wheel limiting the number of dialog options that can be available at any given time, coupled with 'lazyness' on part of the developer when it came to implementing truly branching conversations.

But hey, imho.

 

[Weaver]

What platform was this played on? The FO3 UI on PC was abysmal, wondering how this is on PC.

 

[Rip Van Rabbit]

Thank you for the informative review!

It sounds fantastic and I'm pretty eager to get my hands on the game now. Perhaps I'll wait for a major patch or two, but still, my main desires for Fallout 4 seems to be addressed by making the gunplay more weighty/expanded crafting system/more interesting NPC's.
Not too troubled by the streamlining of the levelling system since it seems like I can make more meaningful levelling choices without faffing about with percentages which might/might not be useful later on.

I don't really see the complaints about limited dialogue choices. Fallout 1 basically consisted of goody-two-shoes response/sarcastic response/aggressive response/ask for more information/leave conversation --- yet it dressed up the dialogue list in varying/longer sentences. With the inclusion of a voiced protagonist, it seems to get straight to the point while still allowing personalisation.

Cryogenically frozen for 200 years in this particular vault? Interesting. It allows a unique glance at the world before the bombs fell, followed by viewing the aftermath over time. It isn't any less "restrictive/limiting" than Fallout 1: Find a water chip. Fallout 2: Find a G.E.C.K. Chosen One. Fallout 3: Find your dad, Vault Dweller. Fallout New Vegas: Find the dude who shot you, by the way you're a courier, roll with it. It's about the journey, not the destination. So that's why I'm more intrigued by what the game has in store for me to discover, instead of dismissing it on the backstory presented.

All in all, I'm looking forward to this.

 

[Conrad Zimmerman]

I would say taht the move to the ME style dialog interface is the main culprit here. DA:Origins had huge complexity in it's dialog options and the impact those had on the progression of the story, and it only had a Stat + Perk system just like Fallout 4 does now (correct me if I am wrong).

You're probably not wrong (I have never had any interest in Dragon Age and can't speak from experience regarding its mechanics), but I think the statistical range of Fallout's prior Skill system was really conducive to allowing those interactions. By merging them with Perks, it would have required a new approach to it. Reducing the range would represent a path of least resistance.

 

[Cowabungaa]

snip

Pity. That does indeed effect its replay value, at least for me.

One more minor question though; how's the new soundtrack? More glorious 50's songs this time? More stations even? Is Inon Zur still on the top of his game in terms of the environmental music?

 

[otakon17]

The real fans

Oh don't pull that No True Scotsman ploy. I got into the series on Fallout 3, loved New Vegas, tried to go back to 1 and 2 and thought they were boring as sin. Do I have to revoke my true Fallout fan card?

Well said, and now only 13 hours to go on my end before I can play it. I literally cannot wait too much longer.

 

[Conrad Zimmerman]

What platform was this played on? The FO3 UI on PC was utterly abysmal, wondering how this is on PC.

The review is predominately based on the PlayStation 4 release, informed with some light play from others on staff playing the other platforms. I can't speak to the PC UI specifically, as I didn't play that version, but I will say that there have been some across the board UI improvements. The HUD is much cleaner and less intrusive, scavenging is vastly improved. Inventory and information management remains much as it was.

 

[ShakerSilver]

PFT! Oh please. The IP was DEAD before Fallout 3 came out. It was either Fallout 3 or no new Fallout games at all. So either you were expecting a type of Fallout that wasn't going to happen or the existance of 3 somehow (Oh and please tell me how Brotherhood of Steel didn't screw up the franchise)

This is false. Black Isle was working on the third Fallout game and much of the game was already completed. It was cancelled when Interplay (under management of Titus, makers of the lovely Superman 64) sold the rights to the franchise to Bethesda, cancelling the game and closing down the studio. The missteps of the franchise, Fallout Tactics and Brotherhood of Steel, weren't actually developed by Black Isle themselves. Tactics was made by Micro Forte and BoS was made in-house by Interplay. The only reason for the series having been screwed up was due to mismanagement of the IP by Interplay.

 

[Conrad Zimmerman]

One more minor question though; how's the new soundtrack? More glorious 50's songs this time? More stations even? Is Inon Zur still on the top of his game in terms of the environmental music?

I loved the score. Hits the right mood without being intrusive. Much of the licensed music is the same stuff it's been in prior games. Would have been nice to get some more variety in that. I have to admit that if I never hear Butcher Pete again, I can die happy.