Actually my post wasn't about "why don't you just not use it" and was about "Yahtzee was talking about making your own fun and then bitched a completely optional system ruined his fun. That's kinda weird." And honestly if exploring everywhere isn't your thing then is it really going to make a difference if you have a horse or a car or a steam powered hover balloon? Exploring is exploring and doing it faster isn't so much as exploring as it is just plain travelling. And you can only fast travel places you've been to so unless you've been everywhere there's always more to explore. If the world is too big or you honestly feel you walk too slow or whatever then maybe open world sandboxes aren't for you. At what point is it a matter of simply not liking the game instead of trying to validate not liking it? That's how Yahtzee came off to me. More like he simply didn't like the game and was trying to explain why when there wasn't really a reason. It just never drew him in. Saying things like NPCs flit back in forth in voice acting and personality would be spot on...if he were talking about oblivion but you can't talk to nearly as many people as you could in Oblivion and they all maintain their personalities big and small boring and not. I just didn't understand how fast traveling which was completely optional could RUIN the game. That's what the article is about and I thought that was silly.
Fallout: New Vegas
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
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"If Yahzee wanted to review something difrent, then why not Mount&Blade?
Its a geat little game that really deserves more reviews."
Wait a minute there. I think you're confusing Yahtzee for a PC gamer. Games like Fallout NV are about as far as he manages to delve into the realm of complex, inventory based, open-world rpg's. The guy is a console tard through and through, so don't expect that level of focus from him.
Its a geat little game that really deserves more reviews."
Wait a minute there. I think you're confusing Yahtzee for a PC gamer. Games like Fallout NV are about as far as he manages to delve into the realm of complex, inventory based, open-world rpg's. The guy is a console tard through and through, so don't expect that level of focus from him.
:/samaugsch said:
There was 4 different points in each map you could travel to, and you had travel to the bus stops to use them. It never transported you so close to your objective it wouldn't take at least 5-10 minutes to go there.
In Fallout 3 you can sometimes travel from one objective to the next, taking only a steps.
Yahtzee,I love watching your videos and how you pick on games. I agree with alot of them and love how you point out ever detail that bugged the crap out off me, along with ones that i didn't catch at first. Me and my son always watch your videos and this one made us both laugh. I would like to ask if you plan on reviewing Medal of Honor or Call of Duty: Black ops in the future. I liked both games storymode wise amd want to see how you liked it.
Aaron Navarez
Aaron Navarez
Yeah, a fast travel system would be great for both 3 and NV I never thinked of that...
It would be fun if you reviewed a older game, like GTA 3..... but I have a feeling that day never come.
It would be fun if you reviewed a older game, like GTA 3..... but I have a feeling that day never come.
I've never been spurred before to comment on a Yahtzee related topic, but I've just been playing New Vegas, and as not the biggest RPG fan, and not having ALL the time in the world to play my games, I'd have to say having a big beef with fast travel is one of the most stupid things I've heard proposed by the man.
Fast travel allows those of us who wish to skip certain arduous trips in favor of cutting to the chase, the ones we want to take, the new exploration, not the retreading of discovered ground. If you want to feel the bigness of the world, then don't fast travel, the option's right there for you. To say the game must force you not to fast travel implies that it is simply not fun to travel at normal speed in the game. If THAT's your problem with the game, well then there you go, makes a lot more sense.
If your problem is having an option that allows those of us in the real world, who have maybe completed a mission, or overburdened our inventory, and just realized it's bedtime before work tomorrow, to skip to town and save with the luxury of being well rested, well then piss off, I don't need your input on the subject.
Except that I'm sure you just whimsically picked up on this subject as your topic for the week because you needed something to write upon quickly, and didn't give it actually that much thought, and spilled out some amusing drivel on the subject, which was, as usual, fun to read, and isn't that really the point?
So as always, I enjoyed your piece, even if it was a stupid premise.
Fast travel allows those of us who wish to skip certain arduous trips in favor of cutting to the chase, the ones we want to take, the new exploration, not the retreading of discovered ground. If you want to feel the bigness of the world, then don't fast travel, the option's right there for you. To say the game must force you not to fast travel implies that it is simply not fun to travel at normal speed in the game. If THAT's your problem with the game, well then there you go, makes a lot more sense.
If your problem is having an option that allows those of us in the real world, who have maybe completed a mission, or overburdened our inventory, and just realized it's bedtime before work tomorrow, to skip to town and save with the luxury of being well rested, well then piss off, I don't need your input on the subject.
Except that I'm sure you just whimsically picked up on this subject as your topic for the week because you needed something to write upon quickly, and didn't give it actually that much thought, and spilled out some amusing drivel on the subject, which was, as usual, fun to read, and isn't that really the point?
So as always, I enjoyed your piece, even if it was a stupid premise.
Hate all you want...it is not the same game as fallout 3. Fallout 3 was drab and humorless...fallout new vegas is funny even if you do not name your character "a slut".
You complain about fast travel...but with those roads, you would be complaining a lot more about motorcycles, and you would be furious if you had to walk across the desert for every mission. There don't seem to be many normal animals around (other than the descendants of the dogs that were kept in the vaults) ...even if there were horses, they would just try to eat you (plus, we know how you feel about horse travel from your Red Dead and Assassins Creed reviews). That just leaves magical beasts that don't even make sense in the WoW world. The game has a sense of "bigness" anyway...because fast travels are never unlocked until you have already gone there on foot.
You complain about fast travel...but with those roads, you would be complaining a lot more about motorcycles, and you would be furious if you had to walk across the desert for every mission. There don't seem to be many normal animals around (other than the descendants of the dogs that were kept in the vaults) ...even if there were horses, they would just try to eat you (plus, we know how you feel about horse travel from your Red Dead and Assassins Creed reviews). That just leaves magical beasts that don't even make sense in the WoW world. The game has a sense of "bigness" anyway...because fast travels are never unlocked until you have already gone there on foot.
Honestly, to me it felt like they just forgot to take the karma system out of fallout 3. I never paid attention to what my karma was. It doesn't even make a difference game-wise, as far as I could tell - reputation is way more important.Phlopsy said:
Golden Sun DS is coming out soon.gilbro7 said:
I don't understand the problem with fast travel. Most of the time you can only travel to where you've been so you still get to see a lot of stuff and if you really don't like it than you can always just not use it
i liked traveling in rdr cause getting a good horse was fun and fast, i mean you could travel the whole map in about 10 15 minutes with the black horse or that god horse u get fairly early on in the story, but mine walked off a damn cliff and got killed.....leanrning the roads and such and know what routes to take made travel fast n easy.
problem with fo3 is it was never a game that was vehicle friendly. there were not many good patches of roads, the city was broken up into zones you had very finite stretches of road before you had to enter some annoying ass sewer maze to get to the next patch of town to find the next sewer maze to get wth you wanted to go.
vehicles were never considered for for fo3 so you never had animations or proper collision detenctions put in for the bike and car models.
there were a few land vehicle mods for fo3 but i think all were considered pretty damn buggy with horrible collision and caused more problems than they solved.
but on the other hand the sky vehicles for fo3 a hoverchair and a vertibird mod worked pretty darn well by all accounts.
nv has the great bonus of having a ton of roads and all the towns and major landmarks connected by roadways that are in decent shape. it would have been nice if obsidian had spent some time making the animations and collisions for a proper working vehicle. but then the nv map is not all the huge anyway, vehicles are nice but hardly a necessity when you can run across the map in 25 minutes or so from one end to another, well barring any untimely deaths.
i tended to use fast travel when my damn game was deciding it was gonna crash
, otherwise i ran all over the place. and it never took all that long to get from vegas to just about any point on the map, lest when you could clear out the deathclaws and the other roads between the vegas area and the s/sw.
problem with fo3 is it was never a game that was vehicle friendly. there were not many good patches of roads, the city was broken up into zones you had very finite stretches of road before you had to enter some annoying ass sewer maze to get to the next patch of town to find the next sewer maze to get wth you wanted to go.
vehicles were never considered for for fo3 so you never had animations or proper collision detenctions put in for the bike and car models.
there were a few land vehicle mods for fo3 but i think all were considered pretty damn buggy with horrible collision and caused more problems than they solved.
but on the other hand the sky vehicles for fo3 a hoverchair and a vertibird mod worked pretty darn well by all accounts.
nv has the great bonus of having a ton of roads and all the towns and major landmarks connected by roadways that are in decent shape. it would have been nice if obsidian had spent some time making the animations and collisions for a proper working vehicle. but then the nv map is not all the huge anyway, vehicles are nice but hardly a necessity when you can run across the map in 25 minutes or so from one end to another, well barring any untimely deaths.
i tended to use fast travel when my damn game was deciding it was gonna crash
, otherwise i ran all over the place. and it never took all that long to get from vegas to just about any point on the map, lest when you could clear out the deathclaws and the other roads between the vegas area and the s/sw.
Better than last weeks extra punctuation at least. Never understood why hardcore video game players bitched and moaned about fast travel in Oblivion. Your explanation made sense, so now I know why they complained about it.
On another note I think they should have made vehicles drivable in Vegas. There's heaps of places where bikes are set up and appear like they have been used/going to be used. Even Fallout 2 had a car.
On another note I think they should have made vehicles drivable in Vegas. There's heaps of places where bikes are set up and appear like they have been used/going to be used. Even Fallout 2 had a car.
I did like how you start to die if you play on hardcore while using fast travel. It kind of discourages you from moving too far and gives you a real sense of mortality (I think the amped up difficulty helped too - ie, deathclaws actually live up to their name now).
I agree though, where is my motorcycle?
I agree though, where is my motorcycle?
I have to admit that fast travel is bad, because the fist part of the game I explored every location on map, but at the end of the story I wanted and want to explore, but it is very hard to find location on you foot when almost every thing has already been found. To tell the truth the power armor dosent help it only slows you down.
About role playing. At first I was every happy about hardcore mode, because of the needs to sleep, eat, drink and it is good, but the sleeping part has failed heavenly, because you only need to drink nuke-cola(I wish that it would word in the real life, that would help me study better...).
Still Fallout NV has come a far way from Oblivion in realisms, but good thing have been lost too like transportation. Maybe after 5 years games will be realistic, but I hope that wont happen, because then human race will be lost for ever...
About role playing. At first I was every happy about hardcore mode, because of the needs to sleep, eat, drink and it is good, but the sleeping part has failed heavenly, because you only need to drink nuke-cola(I wish that it would word in the real life, that would help me study better...).
Still Fallout NV has come a far way from Oblivion in realisms, but good thing have been lost too like transportation. Maybe after 5 years games will be realistic, but I hope that wont happen, because then human race will be lost for ever...
It's easier to maintain a sense of immersion if you can properly show the passage of time.
Part of the problem with Oblivion (and its half-brother, Fallout 3) is the Radiant AI.
Nothing ages, events never trigger until your convenient timing, and traveling feels suspiciously like Groundhog Day.
Fast Travel eliminates the one remaining points of immersion, but it doesn't have to.
Teleportation and Flight have been used as a form of reward in innumerable RPGs. After you have finished slogging through the wilderness for hours of gameplay, you finally unlock the ultimate form of convenience (which may expand on existing gameplay design space by itself. FF9 does this rather well, actually).
Giving it to the player straight-away ruins a great deal of the immersion; however convenient it is.
But perhaps this new market doesn't want much immersion.
They want combat. Flashy graphics. ACTION. All the time spent in between doing backtracking and legwork is a big no-no in today's design.
Why do you think FF13 was one long hallway when many of its predecessors encouraged exploration? It's getting to the point where unless it's a sandbox game, you have no choice but to employ hallway-logic.
I remember several older titles using "Hub Logic" to great effect.
Gex, Mario, Zelda, System Shock 2...even Shadow of the Colossus.
But I suppose most developers don't have time for that now. It takes too much time and effort to create one hallway segment (complete with eye-candy!) and remain on schedule.
This is the big difference between Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, and its two predecessors (Other M is even more linear, different as it is).
Part of the problem with Oblivion (and its half-brother, Fallout 3) is the Radiant AI.
Nothing ages, events never trigger until your convenient timing, and traveling feels suspiciously like Groundhog Day.
Fast Travel eliminates the one remaining points of immersion, but it doesn't have to.
Teleportation and Flight have been used as a form of reward in innumerable RPGs. After you have finished slogging through the wilderness for hours of gameplay, you finally unlock the ultimate form of convenience (which may expand on existing gameplay design space by itself. FF9 does this rather well, actually).
Giving it to the player straight-away ruins a great deal of the immersion; however convenient it is.
But perhaps this new market doesn't want much immersion.
They want combat. Flashy graphics. ACTION. All the time spent in between doing backtracking and legwork is a big no-no in today's design.
Why do you think FF13 was one long hallway when many of its predecessors encouraged exploration? It's getting to the point where unless it's a sandbox game, you have no choice but to employ hallway-logic.
I remember several older titles using "Hub Logic" to great effect.
Gex, Mario, Zelda, System Shock 2...even Shadow of the Colossus.
But I suppose most developers don't have time for that now. It takes too much time and effort to create one hallway segment (complete with eye-candy!) and remain on schedule.
This is the big difference between Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, and its two predecessors (Other M is even more linear, different as it is).
: I was only too thrilled to explore the world map in MP1 and 2, while it felt like a chore in Prime 3, because I knew I would have to pass through the 1-2 same exact passages every single time (honey-combing a level with hidden passages and the like was a hall mark of previous Metroid titles, and acted as a form of Fast Travel. This rarely happens at all in Corruption and Other M) because the game was a hallway.
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/HorseExperimental said:
it's canon(now decided by bethesda, but earlier by obsidian etc) that horses are extinct. or, at least, they have NEVER been seen in fallout, even when obsidian did the ruling. i like to pretend the deathclaw ate them all. allways got a kind of "dragon" vibe from them