Fans Petition to Save Ambitious Lord of the Rings Mod
- Thread starter Fanghawk
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Good then, leave. If the best argument against what Entitled and I have been saying that you can come up with is nothing, then go.Azuaron said:Entitled said:immortalfrieza said:
Signed. How the hell can mods even get a cease and desist, there've been loads of mods that are based on very popular and well known brands (there are loads of LOTR mods for stuff like Civilization, Star Wars mods as well etc.)? Isn't there some protection for this kind of work?
If they shut this down, it'll be a disgrace, fingers crossed it catches the attention of someone important with more than a whiff of air between their ears.
If they shut this down, it'll be a disgrace, fingers crossed it catches the attention of someone important with more than a whiff of air between their ears.
why don't people understand american copyright by now, it's pretty simple if Warner brothers do not defend their ip they loose the rights to it, they wont do this especially with the new hobbit film in production
it is complete idiocy to believe this petition will ever work
the ONLY way it will ever be produced is with a license from Warner
otherwise it's illegal end of story
it is complete idiocy to believe this petition will ever work
the ONLY way it will ever be produced is with a license from Warner
otherwise it's illegal end of story
Oh yeah, so easy to distract him, they had to reforge the sword of Kings, obliterate part of his army, and pretty much charge his doorstep before he even gave them a passing glance. Also, considering how much the fellowship learned and accomplished during the journey, if the eagles had let them skip to Mordors border, Isengard would still stand, consequently Rohan would have been destroyed, either because of the spell cast on the King, or because the trees would not have been able to help at Helms deep. No one would have known what happened to the dwarves of Moria, or Balins fate. Gondor probably also would have been destroyed by Saruman. Really, you have to realize that Saruman was an equal threat most of the time, and even if they had just flown to Mordor and dropped the ring in a volcano, than Saruman would still have his army of thousands of orcs.immortalfrieza said:Maybe so, but that argument falls apart when you realize it would have been easy enough to distract Sauron somehow (which is what what they had to do when they finally snuck the ring into Mt. Doom and destroyed it in the end anyway). Regardless, the very least the eagles could have done is take the Fellowship most of the way to Mt. Doom and skipped much of the unnecessary crap that they otherwise had to go through.charge52 said:The Eye would see the Eagles, and plus, the eagles would have to be higher than the clouds if they don't want to be seen. If they are seen, than yeah, Sauron is not just going to let them fly in his lands, so if the archers couldn't reach, he'd send up a fucking Nazgul, and the book would be over.squid5580 said:2 reasons why that is wrongTsunamiWombat said:Archers.SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
This applies both to your joke twist on the meme, and the meme itself.
So why didn't the eagles fly them to Mordor instead of making them foot slog across the back-ass of the world?
They were trying to keep a low profile, flying on a giant eagle kings back is pretty flashy.
1. The eagles could have flown high enough to use cloud cover
2. the crew would be flying on the back of the eagles. Not the stomach where everyone can see them but the back. So unless they are flying 10 ft off the ground no one is going to pay much attention to some flying giant eagles and counting the legs. But with the hobbits stubby little legs I doubt anyone could see them anyways.
Also, the king of the Eagles rarely does anything that could potentially bring harm to him, or any of his eagles. Bit of a coward in all honesty, only flew to Gandalf's aid at the tower because Gandalf saved his life, so he is honor bound to save Gandalfs.
That logic doesn't work since half the time the creator of an IP isn't even the one that actually holds the rights to said IP, they might never have, sometimes (like Tolkien) they're even dead, no longer and sometimes having never made a cent off of their creaton. Not to mention that the rights to something be held by somebody and thus out of the public domain not just for a fairly short and reasonable predetermined time that is irrevokable, (like Entitled suggests it should) but potentally indefinitely. Some corporation could possibly hold the rights for LOTR centuries from now if they had good enough lawyers to keep getting extensions, or the rights could be passed between several different corporations or individuals for a ridiculous amount of years as long as somebody, somewhere wants to profit off of LOTR and make sure nobody can compete with them.Paladin2905 said:
If we didn't have IP laws or if they were set to a reasonable and permanent time before they became public domain, then we'd still have the LOTR books and still have the excellent LOTR movies and people would still make new IPs. Sure, we'd have to wade through the sea of crap to find the golden geese, but there would be a lot more golden geese to be found amongest that sea than we have now, being stuck with nothing but the singular golden goose and the crap that goose gives out in additon to the gold.
The only difference this time is that this particular mod is a game changer. Nothing that WB has can compete with this kind of mod. So they're scared. They know their products suck and that anyone in their right mind would just play the mod instead of their own games (if they know it exists). So they want to remove the competition. Simple of that.Vrach said:
it's not broken, you cant have one rule for some and one rule for othersValanthe said:
that's not fair or right
you either copyright something or you don't you cant say oh this company / person can do what they like but only if they have 'good intentions' but no one else written into the law you need a contract or the law becomes insanely convoluted and impossible to enforce
contracts are complicated things, you could never build a blanket law that covers how-many people and to what extent they can use some ip's
there are just too-many variables to write down in legalese in one place
Haha, don't pretend like that's the final point my argument, or you're right and I've been cowed into submission, or I've nothing to counter your arguments.immortalfrieza said:Good then, leave. If the best argument against what Entitled and I have been saying that you can come up with is nothing, then go.Azuaron said:Entitled said:immortalfrieza said:
I'm just sick of the total lack of respect for or appreciation of content creators and, while I can't leave the planet, I can leave this thread! My blood pressure will probably be healthier for it [http://xkcd.com/386/].
Goodbye! May your views never become the law!
(I would rather live in a world where copyright was permanent and IP owners had to explicitly release their works into the public domain than in a world where copyright ran out before the creator was even dead.)
Yeah, I really hate it when a studio goes after mods like this, but I think the real problem here is stupid copyright law.Valanthe said:
That's not the point, the point is that the Fellowship's goal was to destroy the ring, the rest, including Saruman and his armies are just incidental obstacles that they had to deal with in order to destroy the ring, those obstacles are not something they set out to do, those problems aren't even they could have possibly expected. Only sheer idioticy on the Fellowship's part could have caused them to not at least suggest using the eagles. As for what would have happened Saruman and the rest, somebody, if not the Fellowship would have dealt with Saruman and everything else eventually anyway, and without the ring and Sauron, everything would have been easier to deal with too.charge52 said:Oh yeah, so easy to distract him, they had to reforge the sword of Kings, obliterate part of his army, and pretty much charge his doorstep before he even gave them a passing glance. Also, considering how much the fellowship learned and accomplished during the journey, if the eagles had let them skip to Mordors border, Isengard would still stand, consequently Rohan would have been destroyed, either because of the spell cast on the King, or because the trees would not have been able to help at Helms deep. No one would have known what happened to the dwarves of Moria, or Balins fate. Gondor probably also would have been destroyed by Saruman. Really, you have to realize that Saruman was an equal threat most of the time, and even if they had just flown to Mordor and dropped the ring in a volcano, than Saruman would still have his army of thousands of orcs.immortalfrieza said:Maybe so, but that argument falls apart when you realize it would have been easy enough to distract Sauron somehow (which is what what they had to do when they finally snuck the ring into Mt. Doom and destroyed it in the end anyway). Regardless, the very least the eagles could have done is take the Fellowship most of the way to Mt. Doom and skipped much of the unnecessary crap that they otherwise had to go through.charge52 said:The Eye would see the Eagles, and plus, the eagles would have to be higher than the clouds if they don't want to be seen. If they are seen, than yeah, Sauron is not just going to let them fly in his lands, so if the archers couldn't reach, he'd send up a fucking Nazgul, and the book would be over.squid5580 said:2 reasons why that is wrongTsunamiWombat said:Archers.SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
This applies both to your joke twist on the meme, and the meme itself.
So why didn't the eagles fly them to Mordor instead of making them foot slog across the back-ass of the world?
They were trying to keep a low profile, flying on a giant eagle kings back is pretty flashy.
1. The eagles could have flown high enough to use cloud cover
2. the crew would be flying on the back of the eagles. Not the stomach where everyone can see them but the back. So unless they are flying 10 ft off the ground no one is going to pay much attention to some flying giant eagles and counting the legs. But with the hobbits stubby little legs I doubt anyone could see them anyways.
Also, the king of the Eagles rarely does anything that could potentially bring harm to him, or any of his eagles. Bit of a coward in all honesty, only flew to Gandalf's aid at the tower because Gandalf saved his life, so he is honor bound to save Gandalfs.
So why not just use the eagles to jump past the first 2 and a half books to the second half of the last book, raise an army to distract Sauron with, (and I highly doubt there wasn't much easier and quicker ways to get his attention) get the eagles and drop the ring into Mt. Doom right away, instead of spending days walking the entire way, fighting off some wizard and his goons that don't really have much to do with the Fellowship's goal and would've probably fallen along with Sauron or at least been heavily demoralized and much easier to take out, and saving some people and discovering a few things that actually only are important to the quest just because they decided to walk instead of taking the significantly faster and easier way.
That's not an argument, that'a random personal opinion. Yeah, you already made it clear that your stomach gets angry at the idea of artists freely creating content without IP holders restricting them.Azuaron said:
So what? I really hate mimes, mondays, retro cartoons, and laptops. Random personal taste.
When it comes to actual pragmatic discussion of how well a society with less IP laws would function, you didn't bring anything but a series of selectively picked examples of how Zynga and hack writers would flood the market with shitty products. Your argument is basically that IP reform is bad, because the shittier ones of artists would continue to be shitty anyways.
You failed to take it into account that the IP laws have the equal effect on good and bad artists, you ignored by reply pointing that out and replied to it with a meme.
With that taken into account you failed miserably on the logical arguments front, and resorted to "you are wrong because my moral compass tells me so".
I couldn't have said it better myself Entitled. Azuaron isn't even willing to consider your perfectly reasonable 5 year IP limit compromise between no IP laws and what we've got now.Entitled said:
I would personally be more than willing to live with your 5 year IP limit idea than what we've got now, but as it stands I'd rather have no IP laws than the clusterf&^* we've got now. Your idea would solve problems on pretty much all fronts, it would prevent things like this LOTR mod issue and would ensure that the content creators got their due, and many other issues, so I applaud you.
Yes, because you know, raising an army without helping anyone is so easy isn't it. To gather that army, they had to save Rohan and Gondor. Once again, the Lord of the Eagles is a coward, he does not want to risk the lives of him and his brothers based on a plan that is only barely smarter than Boromir's internet plan to launch Frodo into Mount Doom with a catapult. Sauron does not become blind when he looks at something, he would have noticed the eagles, and one of the Nazgul would have killed them.immortalfrieza said:That's not the point, the point is that the Fellowship's goal was to destroy the ring, the rest, including Saruman and his armies are just incidental obstacles that they had to deal with in order to destroy the ring, those obstacles are not something they set out to do, those problems aren't even they could have possibly expected. Only sheer idioticy on the Fellowship's part could have caused them to not at least suggest using the eagles. As for what would have happened Saruman and the rest, somebody, if not the Fellowship would have dealt with Saruman and everything else eventually anyway, and without the ring and Sauron, everything would have been easier to deal with too.charge52 said:Oh yeah, so easy to distract him, they had to reforge the sword of Kings, obliterate part of his army, and pretty much charge his doorstep before he even gave them a passing glance. Also, considering how much the fellowship learned and accomplished during the journey, if the eagles had let them skip to Mordors border, Isengard would still stand, consequently Rohan would have been destroyed, either because of the spell cast on the King, or because the trees would not have been able to help at Helms deep. No one would have known what happened to the dwarves of Moria, or Balins fate. Gondor probably also would have been destroyed by Saruman. Really, you have to realize that Saruman was an equal threat most of the time, and even if they had just flown to Mordor and dropped the ring in a volcano, than Saruman would still have his army of thousands of orcs.immortalfrieza said:Maybe so, but that argument falls apart when you realize it would have been easy enough to distract Sauron somehow (which is what what they had to do when they finally snuck the ring into Mt. Doom and destroyed it in the end anyway). Regardless, the very least the eagles could have done is take the Fellowship most of the way to Mt. Doom and skipped much of the unnecessary crap that they otherwise had to go through.charge52 said:The Eye would see the Eagles, and plus, the eagles would have to be higher than the clouds if they don't want to be seen. If they are seen, than yeah, Sauron is not just going to let them fly in his lands, so if the archers couldn't reach, he'd send up a fucking Nazgul, and the book would be over.squid5580 said:2 reasons why that is wrongTsunamiWombat said:Archers.SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
This applies both to your joke twist on the meme, and the meme itself.
So why didn't the eagles fly them to Mordor instead of making them foot slog across the back-ass of the world?
They were trying to keep a low profile, flying on a giant eagle kings back is pretty flashy.
1. The eagles could have flown high enough to use cloud cover
2. the crew would be flying on the back of the eagles. Not the stomach where everyone can see them but the back. So unless they are flying 10 ft off the ground no one is going to pay much attention to some flying giant eagles and counting the legs. But with the hobbits stubby little legs I doubt anyone could see them anyways.
Also, the king of the Eagles rarely does anything that could potentially bring harm to him, or any of his eagles. Bit of a coward in all honesty, only flew to Gandalf's aid at the tower because Gandalf saved his life, so he is honor bound to save Gandalfs.
So why not just use the eagles to jump past the first 2 and a half books to the second half of the last book, raise an army to distract Sauron with, (and I highly doubt there wasn't much easier and quicker ways to get his attention) get the eagles and drop the ring into Mt. Doom right away, instead of spending days walking the entire way, fighting off some wizard and his goons that don't really have much to do with the Fellowship's goal and would've probably fallen along with Sauron or at least been heavily demoralized and much easier to take out, and saving some people and discovering a few things that actually only are important to the quest just because they decided to walk instead of taking the significantly faster and easier way.
I always liked the theory that Eagles are just kind of jerks. If your Eyrie is sufficiently high up, do you really care about a war between a bunch of groundlings? The eagles don't want to get into a war unless they can guarantee they fight for the winning side.Mcoffey said:
But Gandalf is their bro, so they decided to do him a couple of solids.
How about this? Release it with the same content but call it something else.
If the concern is over public confusion of actual LOTR products versus something just made in a mod, then release it under a name that doesn't have anything to do with the copyrighted name. Or is that too sensible for copyright law?
"The 9-Times Bigger than Skyrim Project" Now who wouldn't download a mod with that kind of name?
If the concern is over public confusion of actual LOTR products versus something just made in a mod, then release it under a name that doesn't have anything to do with the copyrighted name. Or is that too sensible for copyright law?
"The 9-Times Bigger than Skyrim Project" Now who wouldn't download a mod with that kind of name?