Fans Tear New Mass Effect Book to Shreds

Denamic

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Daverson said:
realistically speaking, even if that were somehow travelling at the speed of light (ie, ignoring relativistic effects, to account for using the lowest likely mass of a grain of sand) the muzzle energy of such a weapon could be a few kilojoules, about the same as most rifles. (source) [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muzzle_energy#Typical_muzzle_energies_of_common_firearms_and_cartridges]

SCIENCE!
Guns are not just about how much energy the projectile is moving with.
To actually make use of that energy, the projectile has to be able to transfer that energy to the target.
That's why people use hollow point rounds in weapons for use against meatbags.
Hollow point rounds basically go splat, transferring all of its energy into the target and shredding it from the inside.
An armour piercing round with the same amount of energy would just pierce the flesh and go out the other side, resulting in minimal damage.
A projectile the size of a grain of sand would have tremendous armour piercing capability, but it'd be terrible at causing any actual damage.
In fact, after a threshold depending on the size of the projectile, it'd actually start causing less damage with more energy, because it'd start piercing flesh so easily that very little energy is actually transmitted.
You'd just get perforated and highly uncomfortable rather than dead.
 

RipRoaringWaterfowl

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Daverson said:
Agayek said:
Kinda sorta. You've got the basic principle right, but you are vastly underestimating the energies involved. The only reason photons don't destroy the Earth is because they have no mass. Since there's no mass involved, there can't be kinetic energy transfer, and thus nothing gets destroyed.

Also, you're vastly underestimating the size of the projectile used in the ME verse. Even with relativistic speeds, a nanogram projectile moving at 10% of C would have less kinetic energy than a standard 28g modern-day shotgun slug. They would need pieces at least as large as a milligram to do decent damage, at relativistic speeds no less.
Yeah, I covered that back in post 26. You'd need a segment with the mass of a few hundred micrograms travelling close to the speed of light.

Photons have a very small mass, which we can't really measure, but it's theorized to at most 10^-60 kg. (about 30 orders of magnitude less than an electron or neutrino, which in any mathematical model is statistically nothing.)
This is very nitpicky, but I just had to: Protons are the ones with mass. Both protons and neutrons have a mass of 1 AMU (Atomic Mass Units, or so I think I remember). Electrons are the ones that cannot really be measured; their so tiny compared to protons and neutrons. In fact, electrons are comparable to quarks, which make up protons and neutrons. I can't remember exactly what neutrinos are, but I'm getting something about them being related to taus (extremely tiny balls of energy created in sub-subatomic reactions between quarks and the like that last not even a nanosecond), and they fly through space, at least that's what I think I remember.
 

Lovely Mixture

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Aptspire said:
....HOLY S***! He was the one who started the Sangheili/Unggoy Names idea!(In Halo: The Flood)
...
You're right...He's a hack :(
I highly doubt he started the race names of Covenant for the Halo series, the lore for them was written long before the novels, and even if he did why would that have been cause to consider him a hack? It's not like the aliens speak english.
 

Leftnt Sharpe

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Apr 2, 2009
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Bara_no_Hime said:
Leftnt Sharpe said:
Let me introduce you to the Leftnt Sharpe Tie-in fiction rating scale, starting from worse to best:

-Author needs to be punched in the face (C.S Goto goes here).
-Tie-in bad (Dietz is about here).
-Tie in average (Karpyshan here).
-Tie-in good (Karen Traviss goes here? Also Sandy Mitchell).
-Dan Abnett (Pretty self-explanatory)

Please feel free to rip apart my life's work.
I think Dietz has just proven he belongs down with C.S Goto.

Also, where is S.D. Perry? She kicks ass at tie-in novels. She actually made the plot of Resident Evil readable - that's almost worthy of Dan Abnett level praise.
Quite possibly, although that category is reserved for the most terrible of Hack Writers, because by the standards of actual literature they slip down into the category that we only speak of in hushed tones. I've only read 'The Flood' and about 50 pages of Deception so far though so perhaps he truly belongs with C.S Multilaser.

The names are only there for rough guidelines more than anything else, because of course people have different opinions on authors and individual books they have written. Apart from Abnett, only he is allowed in the Dan Abnett category (although his early stuff is probably only tie-in good).
 

Romblen

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I just remembered that I pre ordered this book months ago. It's probably already shipped and will arrive at my doorstep in a few days.

Great, now I have to read it.
 

Therumancer

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imnotparanoid said:
These people have waaaaaay to much time on their hands.
And thats coming from someone who spent the last 4 hours making orogami seals.
Well, yes and no. Something like a video game tie-in novel is by definition aimed at hardcore fans rather than a casual demographic. As such someone doing the writing should understand and respect the material they are writing for, since their audience is exactly the kind of person who is going to react that way, this is who the product is directed at.

Ultimatly in organizing novels attached to established properties, you need editors who can act as oversight, and also to carefully prevent authors from changing things around to try and personalize the work and make it their own (so to speak). Basically the universe is the star of the story, the author is just someone given the honor of being allowed to play around there.

You also have to understand that fans are increasingly concerned over novels set in existing universes due to the massive damage done by novelists to long-standing properties in the past. D&D novels being one of those, where gradually you started seeing the guys writing the novels who managed to get a non-gaming audience, actually bending the game itself to their whims. While this was profitable for a while, you can sort of see the end results with the current state of the PnP RPG industry compared to days past. While it was not exclusively the cause, the novelists chased away a lot of the gamers given time, the gamers were the core audience, and as time went on you saw the fad for the novels reduce (but never disappear, it's still probably the most profitable aspect of what remains of the business, but itself a shadow of what it once was) and without the core audience that had been gradually eroded edition, after edition, and novel after novel, and increasing competition from things like CCGs and MMORPGs... well, we see what happened.

Perhaps a more apt comparison would be the "Expanded Universe" mess in Star Wars and how you had authors like Karin Prentiss (I think that's the name) entirely redefining Mandalorians and gradually infecting other novels to the point where it became a sort of slow poison that has lead to her name being reviled by a lot of fanboys, and if reports are to be believed a lot of people turning their back on the EU.

I won't even get into Star Trek, though admittedly being one of the first universes to have massive amounts of tie-in novels, to a non-written central property, it sort of gets a past since it represents the baseline other similar projects should have learned from.

There have been enough GOOD tie in novels, where you can see how it should be done, and it increasingly makes the stinkers REALLY stand out. Honestly I think a lot of it has to do with both the writers and the publishers being after an easy write and quick buck, which is why there are so few standards applied. It's okay if you wind up with someone who deeply understands and loves the universe and watches themselves, it's not okay if someone decides to say do a couple of playthroughs of a video game as their only research and squat and poop out a novel knowing that the editors themselves don't know or care enough to catch them. I mean the guy who wrote "Deception" has a credit for publishing a novel, doubtlessly got paid, and due to the "Mass Effect Name" it probably sold pretty well... so really he's already won and got his springboard to other writing, which is probably what he wanted.

That's my thoughts at any rate.
 

Alpha Maeko

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Apr 14, 2010
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Those are some rather glaring errors. You'd almost think he wasn't even trying to understand the source material.
 

sms_117b

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Oct 4, 2007
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Was just about to start on this book....Well I still am, this and Asunder, really hope it's not too bad..
 

Korten12

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Aug 26, 2009
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CardinalPiggles said:
AstylahAthrys said:
Dietz's novel was the weakest in the Halo series
FUCK! And I just bought that book too. God damn

Have to be a bit more careful next time.
I heard it's not the worst book but it's not as good as it had to stay true to the game in most parts.
 

Oro44

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I find it a bit silly that people are bringing up real life science into a fictional setting. I mean, biotics have eezo in their nervous system, therefore they can generate mass effect fields that they can detach from themselves and send on its merry way as a heat-seeking death ball. It doesn't have to be realistic, just consistent, which this book fails on on all accounts.
 

Worr Monger

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Lame.... I had already pre-ordered, and it already shipped.

.. Looks like I'll just have to shelve that one... Not sure I want to waste my time if it blatantly ruins the canon.
 

Gennadios

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Shavon513 said:
There are so many fanfiction writers, who are level headed and write very well that Bioware could have hired (for probably less than this guy) and it would have sold more and made fans happy.
They tried hiring those people to write for Dragon Age 2. Say what you will about the game itself, but fans weren't made particularly happy.
 

Daverson

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Nov 17, 2009
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Lear said:
Daverson said:
Agayek said:
Yeah, I covered that back in post 26. You'd need a segment with the mass of a few hundred micrograms travelling close to the speed of light.

Photons have a very small mass, which we can't really measure, but it's theorized to at most 10^-60 kg. (about 30 orders of magnitude less than an electron or neutrino, which in any mathematical model is statistically nothing.)
This is very nitpicky, but I just had to: Protons are the ones with mass. Both protons and neutrons have a mass of 1 AMU (Atomic Mass Units, or so I think I remember). Electrons are the ones that cannot really be measured; their so tiny compared to protons and neutrons. In fact, electrons are comparable to quarks, which make up protons and neutrons. I can't remember exactly what neutrinos are, but I'm getting something about them being related to taus (extremely tiny balls of energy created in sub-subatomic reactions between quarks and the like that last not even a nanosecond), and they fly through space, at least that's what I think I remember.
That's a very basic version of how things actually are. Electrons have a measurable mass (about 10^-30kg). Yet, the mass of a photon compared to an electron is even smaller than the mass of an electron compared to a proton. There's no scientifically accepted figure for the mass of a photon, the best we can do is guess the maximum possible mass they could have, given that certain physical laws (ie, Coulomb's law) are known to work.

Denamic said:
Daverson said:
realistically speaking, even if that were somehow travelling at the speed of light (ie, ignoring relativistic effects, to account for using the lowest likely mass of a grain of sand) the muzzle energy of such a weapon could be a few kilojoules, about the same as most rifles. (source) [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muzzle_energy#Typical_muzzle_energies_of_common_firearms_and_cartridges]

SCIENCE!
Guns are not just about how much energy the projectile is moving with.
To actually make use of that energy, the projectile has to be able to transfer that energy to the target.
That's why people use hollow point rounds in weapons for use against meatbags.
Hollow point rounds basically go splat, transferring all of its energy into the target and shredding it from the inside.
An armour piercing round with the same amount of energy would just pierce the flesh and go out the other side, resulting in minimal damage.
A projectile the size of a grain of sand would have tremendous armour piercing capability, but it'd be terrible at causing any actual damage.
In fact, after a threshold depending on the size of the projectile, it'd actually start causing less damage with more energy, because it'd start piercing flesh so easily that very little energy is actually transmitted.
You'd just get perforated and highly uncomfortable rather than dead.
True, but also kinda irrelevant. Solid slug ("ball") ammunition (which relies solely on kinetic energy) is still widely used, and while it isn't as effective as hollowpoint, it's not exactly non-lethal, is it?
 

Mr Jack

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Sep 10, 2008
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Re: Element Zero

My own personal interpretation was that this was it's non-scientific name, (ala "God Particle"). More fundamental laws are given lower numbers (Zeroth Law of Thermodynamics, Zeroth Law of Robotics, Zeroth Law of Space Combat), and so as a scientists joke Element Zero was so nick-named as it was more fundamental to our understanding than our knowledge of the chemical elements. It makes sense to me at least.

OT

Writers in an already established canon have a responsibility to ensure their work fits in. There are so many resources documenting the lore of the ME universe that the author and the people who green-lighted it have no excuse. It saddens me that such a well constructed universe is being diluted with this.
 

Denamic

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Daverson said:
True, but also kinda irrelevant. Solid slug ("ball") ammunition (which relies solely on kinetic energy) is still widely used, and while it isn't as effective as hollowpoint, it's not exactly non-lethal, is it?
It's a compromise.
It's 'solid', as in not designed specifically to crumple, decreasing its flesh tearing capabilities.
But it's better at penetrating thin walls and armour.
Its somewhat less lethal nature is also more suitable for civilian use.
Cuz murder bad.

Anyway, it's still quite a lot larger and much more capable of transferring energy than a projectile the size of a grain of sand would be.
Imagine a steel rod that has a diameter of 1cm, and having it come down on your hand with enough force to pierce your hand.
Now imagine a steel needle with a diameter of .5mm, and having it come down on your hand with the same amount of force.
The needle would just penetrate your hand and leave it relatively undamaged whereas the 1cm rod would hurt you pretty bad.
 

Scorekeeper

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How can this book be so bad if it were written by Drew Karpyshyn? I would expect it to be average at best but this is just ridiculous.

*sees who wrote the novel*

Oh. It was written by William C. Dietz. Now the poor quality makes sense.
 

anthony87

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SupahGamuh said:
Even I'm pissed off by this book and I haven't read any of the Mass Effect books yet!, but I've read every single nook and cranny that the codex offers for both Mass Effects.

Why did I chose not to play ME3?...

Could you not get it on a console?
 

SickBritKid

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Daverson said:
Erm, point 4, I don't think you can make assumptions of the "science" behind ME, considering their magical crystal are "Element Zero".

For those of us who apparently don't know what science is, elements in the periodic table are numbered by the number of protons they've got in their nucleus. So, Element 1 (Hydrogen) has a single proton in the nucleus, while element 13 (aluminium) has 13. Element 0 isn't something that's physically impossible, it's literally nothing! You can't have nothing as your magical crystals!

And it's not like it's just called "Element Zero", but it's something else entirely, they go out of their way to say that's exactly what it is! I'm pretty sure this is the first thing you learn in chemistry classes these days!

Besides, I thought the whole point of the guns in ME was that the projectiles where part of a solid ammunition core that was broken off in minuscule amounts (say, less than a nanogram), and accelerated to speeds close to the speed of light to cause an equivalent amount of destruction to a conventional firearm. Yeah, if you accelerate something like an apple to relativistic speeds, it's gonna blow up half a major city (hand-wavy physics here! don't correct me by saying it'll only blow up a few blocks =p ), but obviously at a microscopic level, there's no nearly as much destructive potential. (think about it, light travels at the speed of light, but each photon that hits the earth doesn't wipe out everything, does it?)

(In case you think I'm suddenly applauding their ability to write good sci-fi, I should point out this is blatantly plagiarized from Wh40k's shuriken weapons [http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Shuriken#.TyhVMoHnOwM] =p )
Element Zero is just a name given to the star-plasma infused metal that makes Mass Effect possible. It doesn't necessarily mean that it has no protons/neutrons.

So way to fail.
 

captaincabbage

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Okay, I've played ME1 and 2 and I am fairly interested in the lore, but I'm in no way an expert, but the first two of these facts I could have noticed off the top of my head.

Pirate attacks on a homeworld? that just sounds absurd for any race to be attacked by some bloody pirates on their homeworld, let alone the turians. I've not even read the wiki or anything, but I still know that the turian race is essentially the largest military force in the galaxy.
And Volus. Again, it's explicitly stated in the games that Volus can't live without their masks.

I'm just a casual fan and I know these things. I hate to imagine the heart-attack inducing rage that full on fans would have felt for this book.