Fat and proud?

tippy2k2

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I have had this question on my mind for quite a while but have never been able to really figure out how to bring it up without being all preachy and/or assholey when I saw this article and it made me see some of the points I was wondering about w/o being an asshat about it:

http://thoughtcatalog.com/carolyn-hall/2014/04/6-things-i-dont-understand-about-the-fat-acceptance-movement/

1. America is extremely accepting of fat.
I have not lived in many other countries in my life, but I have done it enough to know that America is exceptional in its general permissiveness about obesity and ill health. Though there may be negative stereotypes, staring, bullying, or crude comments, the environment we live in is one that is incredibly tolerant of unhealthy lifestyles. There are enormous portions, extreme levels of convenience, and a low priority put on physical activity (even in our schools). While treating someone differently because of how they look is not okay, with upwards of 60 percent obesity in certain cities, you can?t say that America is not accepting of fat people. We basically ensure that people will be fat, and are tolerant of the lifestyle choices that surround it. If anything, we need to be cracking down on it more.

2. ?Body positivity? should include health.
The idea of ?body positivity? when used to refer to people who are hundreds of pounds overweight has always confused me. How could you be positive about something when you are, at the same time, actively damaging it? Being positive about the way you look is not enough, you also have to be positive (and proactive) about your health and well-being. And the obvious ill effects of obesity ? on organs, joints, energy levels, and mood ? go totally against the idea of being positive. There is nothing more negative than treating your body with disregard.

3. ?Health at every size? seems physically impossible.
A big part of the Fat Acceptance Movement seems to be the idea of Health At Every Size, which advocates for a focus on healthy living, and not on body image. And in theory, this works, but its application is totally inconsistent. We acknowledge that someone who is anorexic is clearly not healthy at their size, and needs medical intervention, but we perpetuate the idea that a morbidly obese person could pursue an active lifestyle and remain at their size, and that saying otherwise would be ?shaming? them. The truth is that weight extremes on either end are not healthy, and using rhetoric to cover up their real danger is not helping anyone. Physically, you cannot be healthy at literally any size, and sparing someone?s feelings on the matter is not going to address their immediate medical concerns.

4. People are allowed to not be attracted to certain body types.
Another weird part of the movement seems to be the idea that not being attracted to, or put off by, a large body is in some way shaming or internalized hatred of fat people. I know that there are many people who aren?t attracted to my body type (I don?t have much in the way of curves), but in the same vein, I?m not attracted to lots of other body types. And the focus on getting obese people to be seen as attractive seems misguided, when everyone has a preference, and whether or not someone is attracted to you shouldn?t mean anything to you. If someone wants to say ?no fatties? in their online dating profile, isn?t it just their loss?

5. Food addiction is a real medical problem.
Just as much as we would hold an intervention on someone who is suffering from a heroin addiction, or drinking themselves to death, should we not give the same attention to someone who is clearly eating themselves into ill health? Obviously there are going to be exceptions, when it?s caused by a medical condition or extenuating circumstances, but the Fat Acceptance Movement seems to rely too much on these outliers and not focus on the very real problem that a huge number of people in our country overeat in a dangerous way. The constant consumption of junk food, fast food, and preservative-filled snacks (especially if it?s soothing an emotional wound) is putting the body in real danger. And a lot of people are consuming these foods on more than a daily basis, which makes sense, as many of these foods are constructed to make us addicted. Should we not address these underlying issues?

6. Childhood obesity is something we can?t be accepting of.
Regardless of whether or not a consenting adult wants to participate in the FAM or HAES, we can?t say that it is safe for children. There is a reason people get so upset at seeing obese children, and it?s because it is condemning them to a life of health problems that they are not choosing themselves. Feeding children constant junk food, letting them be sedentary, or giving them sugary sodas instead of water is something that we need to be judging harshly as a society. Choosing to be obese and wanting that acceptance as an adult is one thing, but putting it on a child is another, and some of these movements? rhetoric edges dangerously into the latter category. Regardless of where you stand politically, seeing a toddler weigh as much as a normal 10-year-old should make us all very angry.

You don't have to read the article if you don't wish (though I would recommend it since it makes some interesting points) but this is something that I feel like has been gaining traction and I'm curious if I'm the only one who is mildly baffled by it...

Why is there a "Fat Acceptance Movement"?

Now I don't know if I just see things that are not really there or if this is just certain places or what it is but it seems like more and more we're getting the "Large and proud of it!" kind of mindset. Not the "I could stand to lose ten pounds or so" people either...the "I'm 5 foot even and I weight 300+ pounds and I'm beautiful for it" kind of people.

I'm curious what others think about this? Is there actually a "Fat Acceptance Movement" or am I seeing things? If it does exist, should it exist?
 

shrekfan246

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Ehhh...

I don't know if there are enough people, especially at an organized level, to call it a "movement"; Otherwise you'd have to call all of the masturbatory Tumblr shite actual "movements" as well.

And honestly, despite point #1 I still understand it to a degree as something of a defense mechanism. I mean, even here on The Escapist you'll see a bunch of posts every now and then which just seem outright hostile to an almost vicious degree towards people who are overweight. When somebody sees that kind of reaction, it's only natural for them to want to respond in some way that tries to negate the "attack".

As for whether or not it should exist, well... eh... yes and no? It's not really my business if somebody else wants to let themselves go past 400 pounds and whatnot. Maybe I should be more empathetic toward my fellow man, but to be perfectly honest, it's impossible for somebody to go about caring and worrying about every human being they might potentially meet. And why should I be bloody upset or angered because someone else is overweight? I fail to see how another person's health impacts me, unless they're one of my relatives.

To put it simply and bluntly, I think people should just stop judging others based on physical appearances. Even beyond weight, I just don't see the point in judging somebody because they're short, or tall, or have long hair, or have no hair, or because they wear makeup, or because they have glasses, or because of their skin color, or blah blah blah, I don't think any of it should really matter. But until we can reach a point where people stop saying things like
The "average" american falling more like it. Sadly.
4729 fat losers disliked this video
I came here to laugh at fat people you retard
fuckoff your fat obviously
(Fun fact, all of those were from the same video)

Know who says that? Disgusting fat people.
... I think the point is made.

I get that the internet is just a breeding ground for hatred, contempt, and stupidity, but... it still boggles my mind that it's not even difficult to find comments such as those.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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Two thirds of the country is either fat or obese, I'd say they've accepted it for quite some time now.
 

Euryalus

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Johnny Novgorod said:
Two thirds of the country is either fat or obese, it's easier to congratulate people for being fat than educating them to become thin.
one third

OT: I don't know if it actually exists as more than a crazy tumblr-esque thing, but it shouldn't.

It's one thing to be comfortable in your skin, and call it like it is, but another to just up and be proud/promote an unhealthy lifestyle.

So many of my friends complain about their weight and how wonderful it would be if they lost weight, but if you mention anything to them about what they can do to fix it they get all defensive.

Fatness in itself isn't something to be ashamed of. Unhealthy eating habits, unhealthy excersise habits, and being too lazy to fix those things are things to be ashamed of.

If you're trying to lose weight, I'll be the first guy rooting for you all the way. If you want me to leave the topic be, great, we'll hang out drink beers and never talk about it, but if you try to proclaim it as being virtuous or good or something to be proud of or not ashamed of?

I'll disagree.

It's like that saying about smokers. "Of course you have every right to smoke. Do what you will, but don't try to tell me its good for you."
 

Johnny Novgorod

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T0ad 0f Truth said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
Two thirds of the country is either fat or obese, it's easier to congratulate people for being fat than educating them to become thin.
one third
This is from the Food Research and Action Center.

More than two-thirds of U.S. adults are overweight or obese (Ogden et al., 2014). In general, rates of overweight and obesity are higher for African-American and Hispanic women than Caucasian women, higher for Hispanic men than Caucasian and African-American men, higher in the South and Midwest, and tend to increase with age (Ogden et al., 2014; Gregg et al., 2009; Sherry et al., 2010). Research also shows that the heaviest Americans have become even heavier the past decade (Beydoun & Wang, 2009).
http://frac.org/initiatives/hunger-and-obesity/obesity-in-the-us/
 

Euryalus

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Johnny Novgorod said:
T0ad 0f Truth said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
Two thirds of the country is either fat or obese, it's easier to congratulate people for being fat than educating them to become thin.
one third
This is from the Food Research and Action Center.

More than two-thirds of U.S. adults are overweight or obese (Ogden et al., 2014). In general, rates of overweight and obesity are higher for African-American and Hispanic women than Caucasian women, higher for Hispanic men than Caucasian and African-American men, higher in the South and Midwest, and tend to increase with age (Ogden et al., 2014; Gregg et al., 2009; Sherry et al., 2010). Research also shows that the heaviest Americans have become even heavier the past decade (Beydoun & Wang, 2009).
http://frac.org/initiatives/hunger-and-obesity/obesity-in-the-us/
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/Mobile/article.aspx?articleid=1832542

In 2011-2012, 8.1% (95% CI, 5.8%-11.1%) of infants and toddlers had high weight for recumbent length, and 16.9% (95% CI, 14.9%-19.2%) of 2- to 19-year-olds and 34.9% (95% CI, 32.0%-37.9%) of adults (age-adjusted) aged 20 years or older were obese.
I say we cut the difference and say three sixths :D

I haven't read all the studies, but 60% overweight seems too high based on experience alone plus a few articles I've read say around 34% plus or minus 5.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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T0ad 0f Truth said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
T0ad 0f Truth said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
Two thirds of the country is either fat or obese, it's easier to congratulate people for being fat than educating them to become thin.
one third
This is from the Food Research and Action Center.

More than two-thirds of U.S. adults are overweight or obese (Ogden et al., 2014). In general, rates of overweight and obesity are higher for African-American and Hispanic women than Caucasian women, higher for Hispanic men than Caucasian and African-American men, higher in the South and Midwest, and tend to increase with age (Ogden et al., 2014; Gregg et al., 2009; Sherry et al., 2010). Research also shows that the heaviest Americans have become even heavier the past decade (Beydoun & Wang, 2009).
http://frac.org/initiatives/hunger-and-obesity/obesity-in-the-us/
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/Mobile/article.aspx?articleid=1832542

In 2011-2012, 8.1% (95% CI, 5.8%-11.1%) of infants and toddlers had high weight for recumbent length, and 16.9% (95% CI, 14.9%-19.2%) of 2- to 19-year-olds and 34.9% (95% CI, 32.0%-37.9%) of adults (age-adjusted) aged 20 years or older were obese.
I say we cut the difference and say three sixths :D

I haven't read all the studies, but 60% overweight seems too high based on experience alone plus a few articles I've read say around 34% plus or minus 5.
The thing is you have to take in consideration "overweight" and "obesity" separately. Roughly a third of Americans are overweight (i.e. fat) while another third are obese. So that's two thirds of the population being either fat or obese. It's hard to calculate because most health sites chronicle weight rates per state.
 

Longing

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Well, fat people have always been the easy target. It's one of those things you can insult without feeling like a horrible human being (you still are).

I feel like Fat Acceptance is just wanting to be recognized as an actual human being and accepting the fact that you may not find 300 pounds people attractive, but just shut the fuck up about it and continue on with your life. Stop acting like you're 'worried' about their health, we all know it ain't true.

I personally think that Everyone Has A Right To Exist And Find Themselves Beautiful Acceptance would drive the point across, but as I said, when it's time to make a quick cheap joke, always go for the fattie.
 

manic_depressive13

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1. I don't see it, and I don't really see a problem with this if it's the case. Would you rather it weren't accepting? Like segregation with fat people?

2. Don't care. If someone wants to potentially be unhealthy and still feel good about themselves, more power to them. I'm not going to demand they feel bad because they don't have the same priorities as me.

3. See point number 2. Also I feel like the argument is being misrepresented here. They're not saying "It doesn't matter how fat you are, you're still healthy". They're saying "Do your best to lead a healthy life, consult your doctor, and if it turns out you're healthy at your weight, don't detriment that by trying fad diets in an attempt to meet a conventional standard of weight".

4. Is anyone disallowing this? If someone wants to put "no fatties" on their dating profile they're welcome to do so, and people, fat or otherwise, are subsequently entitled to assume that person is a rude jerk.

5. Sure, but I doubt it's the main cause of obesity.

6. Again you say we 'shouldn't be accepting of it'. Okay, what do we do? Call child services? Insult the parents? Demean the children? Harass and bully the whole family? Or do we do what I'm sure is already being done: educate people about health and fitness and hope they take it on board for their own sake.

Also, you don't need to be 300+ pounds to be obese at five feet tall. You need exactly half that, and 132 pounds (60kg) to be considered overweight. I don't know why people insist on creating this absurdly exaggerated image of what an obese person actually is. If you type "obese" into google you get a series of grotesque images of people spilling out of their chairs and eating fast food. You don't see that as indicative of a problem in the way society views fat people? Is that what passes as too accepting?
 

SacremPyrobolum

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I'm fat and I thinks this is rather pathetic. Having a health problem is not something to be proud of, especially one which in most cases you could prevent.
 

Auron225

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Saint Ganondorf said:
I don't get why people are against it. What's their investment in it? What calamity will befall should they ignore it and just let it be? If you ignore someone's weight in most circumstances I don't know what it'll do to you. I'm ambivalent to it, but those that do seem to care that aren't personally involved just seem to be wanting to be upset about the irrelevant details of someone else's life. It's not like they're telling people *not* to eat healthy are they? As far as I know they just want people to not be an ass about people's weights.
It's because a lot of overweight people who have the "Fat and Proud of it" mentality are taking that stance to combat persecution against fat people. It's a body image thing; "Fat people are beautiful too". They do this without the full knowledge of the health risks they are exposing themselves to in the process.

Look at it this way; smoking is largely seen (at least where I am) as an undesirable hobby. It stinks, it's expensive and it's exceptionally harmful to the body. If smokers decided to take a stand and say "We smoke and we're proud of it! You can't stop us!" and it became rude to speak out against smoking (or even to suggest that they try & quit) then indeed that it is their choice but they'll be poisoning themselves and dying of lung cancer for the sake of pride.
 

Thaluikhain

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Like most of these "pride" things, it's not so much pride, in the normal sense, as it is "no, you can't shame me into disappearing". Lots of people like picking on fat people, Fat Acceptance is basically other people saying "knock that off". Same as the Gay Pride thing, which seems mostly to be gay people angry at having to pretend not to exist reminding everyone that they do.

As for that article, there's a whole stack of other articles explaining all the problems in it, if you were to look around. It's rather missing the point, though the article points out it's speaking from ignorance.
 

krazykidd

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tippy2k2 said:
I have had this question on my mind for quite a while but have never been able to really figure out how to bring it up without being all preachy and/or assholey when I saw this article and it made me see some of the points I was wondering about w/o being an asshat about it:

http://thoughtcatalog.com/carolyn-hall/2014/04/6-things-i-dont-understand-about-the-fat-acceptance-movement/

1. America is extremely accepting of fat.
I have not lived in many other countries in my life, but I have done it enough to know that America is exceptional in its general permissiveness about obesity and ill health. Though there may be negative stereotypes, staring, bullying, or crude comments, the environment we live in is one that is incredibly tolerant of unhealthy lifestyles. There are enormous portions, extreme levels of convenience, and a low priority put on physical activity (even in our schools). While treating someone differently because of how they look is not okay, with upwards of 60 percent obesity in certain cities, you can?t say that America is not accepting of fat people. We basically ensure that people will be fat, and are tolerant of the lifestyle choices that surround it. If anything, we need to be cracking down on it more.

2. ?Body positivity? should include health.
The idea of ?body positivity? when used to refer to people who are hundreds of pounds overweight has always confused me. How could you be positive about something when you are, at the same time, actively damaging it? Being positive about the way you look is not enough, you also have to be positive (and proactive) about your health and well-being. And the obvious ill effects of obesity ? on organs, joints, energy levels, and mood ? go totally against the idea of being positive. There is nothing more negative than treating your body with disregard.

3. ?Health at every size? seems physically impossible.
A big part of the Fat Acceptance Movement seems to be the idea of Health At Every Size, which advocates for a focus on healthy living, and not on body image. And in theory, this works, but its application is totally inconsistent. We acknowledge that someone who is anorexic is clearly not healthy at their size, and needs medical intervention, but we perpetuate the idea that a morbidly obese person could pursue an active lifestyle and remain at their size, and that saying otherwise would be ?shaming? them. The truth is that weight extremes on either end are not healthy, and using rhetoric to cover up their real danger is not helping anyone. Physically, you cannot be healthy at literally any size, and sparing someone?s feelings on the matter is not going to address their immediate medical concerns.

4. People are allowed to not be attracted to certain body types.
Another weird part of the movement seems to be the idea that not being attracted to, or put off by, a large body is in some way shaming or internalized hatred of fat people. I know that there are many people who aren?t attracted to my body type (I don?t have much in the way of curves), but in the same vein, I?m not attracted to lots of other body types. And the focus on getting obese people to be seen as attractive seems misguided, when everyone has a preference, and whether or not someone is attracted to you shouldn?t mean anything to you. If someone wants to say ?no fatties? in their online dating profile, isn?t it just their loss?

5. Food addiction is a real medical problem.
Just as much as we would hold an intervention on someone who is suffering from a heroin addiction, or drinking themselves to death, should we not give the same attention to someone who is clearly eating themselves into ill health? Obviously there are going to be exceptions, when it?s caused by a medical condition or extenuating circumstances, but the Fat Acceptance Movement seems to rely too much on these outliers and not focus on the very real problem that a huge number of people in our country overeat in a dangerous way. The constant consumption of junk food, fast food, and preservative-filled snacks (especially if it?s soothing an emotional wound) is putting the body in real danger. And a lot of people are consuming these foods on more than a daily basis, which makes sense, as many of these foods are constructed to make us addicted. Should we not address these underlying issues?

6. Childhood obesity is something we can?t be accepting of.
Regardless of whether or not a consenting adult wants to participate in the FAM or HAES, we can?t say that it is safe for children. There is a reason people get so upset at seeing obese children, and it?s because it is condemning them to a life of health problems that they are not choosing themselves. Feeding children constant junk food, letting them be sedentary, or giving them sugary sodas instead of water is something that we need to be judging harshly as a society. Choosing to be obese and wanting that acceptance as an adult is one thing, but putting it on a child is another, and some of these movements? rhetoric edges dangerously into the latter category. Regardless of where you stand politically, seeing a toddler weigh as much as a normal 10-year-old should make us all very angry.

You don't have to read the article if you don't wish (though I would recommend it since it makes some interesting points) but this is something that I feel like has been gaining traction and I'm curious if I'm the only one who is mildly baffled by it...

Why is there a "Fat Acceptance Movement"?

Now I don't know if I just see things that are not really there or if this is just certain places or what it is but it seems like more and more we're getting the "Large and proud of it!" kind of mindset. Not the "I could stand to lose ten pounds or so" people either...the "I'm 5 foot even and I weight 300+ pounds and I'm beautiful for it" kind of people.

I'm curious what others think about this? Is there actually a "Fat Acceptance Movement" or am I seeing things? If it does exist, should it exist?
I like big girls. Iv'e always found big girl beautiful. Hell i go out of my way to date fat women. In media,being fat it seen as ugly, unhealthy and attractive, which is not necessarily true. Fat people get teased, laughed at and ignored. I for one am glad there is a fat acceptance movement, because i can't count the number of times iv'e been talking to a fat girl i'm attracted to only to be unatttracted by their lack of self esteem for being fat.People come in different shapes and sizes, tall, short, fat ,skinny ect... And what ever and who ever you are, you should always be proud.

However,being black, i may be genetically engeneered to liking fat women, so i may be biased.

 

krazykidd

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SacremPyrobolum said:
I'm fat and I thinks this is rather pathetic. Having a health problem is not something to be proud of, especially one which in most cases you could prevent.
You can be overwheight and healthy you know. Hell you can be thin and unhealthy. Also why shouldn't someone be proud of how they look? No matter how they look. And isn't it a little hyprocritical to say your fat and then saying ( being fat and unhealthy) it's something that can be prevented, therefore they are pathetic?
 

SacremPyrobolum

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krazykidd said:
SacremPyrobolum said:
I'm fat and I thinks this is rather pathetic. Having a health problem is not something to be proud of, especially one which in most cases you could prevent.
You can be overwheight and healthy you know. Hell you can be thin and unhealthy. Also why shouldn't someone be proud of how they look? No matter how they look. And isn't it a little hyprocritical to say your fat and then saying ( being fat and unhealthy) it's something that can be prevented, therefore they are pathetic?
I said that being fat and proud of it is pathetic. Begin proud of how you look and by extension how you present yourself to the world is fine, hell I'm pretty satisfied about it myself, but specifically being proud of your portliness makes me role my eyes.
 

The Lunatic

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There is absolutely no such thing as "Fat and Healthy" anyone whom believes that is pretty far beyond the pail of delusion.

It is not the same as "Gay Pride" you do not choose to be gay, you choose to be fat by either sheer laziness or entitlement to the extent you believe that people have to accept your unhealthy lifestyle.

If you're fat, and aware of it, fine. You're an adult, you can make your own choices.

If you're fat, blame everything but yourself and demand that others accept you and berate anyone whom disagrees, grow up, and accept your choices in life, you're the only one that has to live with them.
 

Hagi

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krazykidd said:
SacremPyrobolum said:
I'm fat and I thinks this is rather pathetic. Having a health problem is not something to be proud of, especially one which in most cases you could prevent.
You can be overwheight and healthy you know. Hell you can be thin and unhealthy. Also why shouldn't someone be proud of how they look? No matter how they look. And isn't it a little hyprocritical to say your fat and then saying ( being fat and unhealthy) it's something that can be prevented, therefore they are pathetic?
I may be completely misunderstanding things but isn't overweight the point where it's no longer healthy? You know, just like being underweight?

If you're healthy then you're not overweight. If you're overweight then you're not healthy.

I mean you can be heavy and still healthy. Plenty of people like that, more fat than average but not overweight. But being overweight and healthy I believe is simply a contradiction.