Fat and proud?

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Longing

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Naqel said:
Longing said:
Well, fat people have always been the easy target.
I feel like this wasn't meant to be a fat joke, but it still sounds like one. Either way: well played.
lol, i'm gonna say it was intentional. thanks for making me look a lot more clever than i am.


Just a little note here for the people thinking that shaming fat people into losing weight is the way to go.

Shaming doesn't work. It just doesn't. End of the line. You are helping absolutely no one, not that it was ever you motivation to begin with. You think fat people just wake up one day and think, 'oh wow this is super unhealthy, why did no one tell me this before'. you help them by first building them up and then encouraging them to pursue different lifestyle choices. if they don't want to, fine. i think the 500 pounds man knows that he may not live as long as the average populace. you could get hit by a car tomorrow, who fucking cares. stop acting like you're holier than thou.

masseyguy911 said:
Honestly, at the end of the day if you can say that you are happy with who you are, how you look, and where you are in life, isn't that the most important thing?
clearly not, you should also take care not to bother other people with your visual disturbance.
 

Amir Kondori

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I really think you are conflating two issues. One is the issue of health and the other is fat shaming.

I am overweight, I used to be in awesome shape but had some medical stuff happen and I haven't put in the work since then to get back into shape. I am not proud of my weight. I do not think it is a good thing. I am however proud of myself, as I have a lot of other positive traits and I give a lot to my local community.

I would never begrudge a friend, a doctor, my family, etc., from making a friendly suggestion about getting my weight under control. Many of them have. It shows they care about me and my health and that is great.

What I do begrudge is someone who is going to use my weight to make a personal attack against me or try to berate me. If you do not know me do not bring up my weight. Don't ask if I go to the gym, or comment on what I am eating. If I don't know you or barely know you then you are being rude and breaking a boundary.

Fat acceptance isn't, I believe, about embracing the idea that being fat is healthy or even a good thing. It is about letting people know that you can't use someone's weight as an excuse to attack them, belittle them, or make them feel bad.
 

lacktheknack

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As with anything, there are terrifying extremists within the movement that make it look unhealthy.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t1.0-9/1622018_598919266885330_8266436300003849763_n.jpg

The above is obviously unhealthy and worrisome. At its root, though, the Fat Acceptance Movement is ultimately harmless. There's no good reason to discriminate against someone right away entirely because they're fat (unless you're looking for someone to walk on something flimsy, I guess).
 

game-lover

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The issue I think is because society still believes that you can and should be able to prevent yourself from becoming overweight or obese.

It reminds me of this quote I saw from House where he was explaining why there were no ribbons for lung cancer. How the reasoning was mostly the same.
 

JUMBO PALACE

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I've come across similar things and yeah it does seem like there is a fat acceptance movement. Mostly by I assume lazy fat people who don't want to be bothered to put in some effort and make themselves healthy. I've been on both sides of the coin. I used to weigh almost 300 pounds and was officially morbidly obese. I didn't demand that people see me as beautiful or accept my rolls as some new standard of beauty. I looked in the mirror one day and decides that something needed to change. I was fat, unattractive, and unhealthy. So I lost almost 100 pounds and now I'm an amateur body builder.

What I think the fat acceptance movement fails to realize is that more often than not, fat does not only mean many people don't find you attracitve, it also means that you're unhealthy. If someone wants to be fat, and loves themselves as fat, that's great, but their demands to be judged as just as beautiful or healthy as someone who spends hours in the gym and watches what they eat should fall on deaf ears.
 

Kinitawowi

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lacktheknack said:
As with anything, there are terrifying extremists within the movement that make it look unhealthy.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t1.0-9/1622018_598919266885330_8266436300003849763_n.jpg

The above is obviously unhealthy and worrisome. At its root, though, the Fat Acceptance Movement is ultimately harmless. There's no good reason to discriminate against someone right away entirely because they're fat (unless you're looking for someone to walk on something flimsy, I guess).
I'm calling Poe's Law on that. There's no human being alive who actually legitimately thinks and writes like that.

There can't be.

*shudder*
 

Tarfeather

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Hm, at first I was inclined to agree with the article in the OP, but something just didn't ring true about it.

mecegirl said:
Longing said:
Well, fat people have always been the easy target. It's one of those things you can insult without feeling like a horrible human being (you still are).

I feel like Fat Acceptance is just wanting to be recognized as an actual human being and accepting the fact that you may not find 300 pounds people attractive, but just shut the fuck up about it and continue on with your life. Stop acting like you're 'worried' about their health, we all know it ain't true.

I personally think that Everyone Has A Right To Exist And Find Themselves Beautiful Acceptance would drive the point across, but as I said, when it's time to make a quick cheap joke, always go for the fattie.
This is how I feel about the situation. We can claim that its all about health but its really about appearance. What passes for looking healthy isn't always healthy. You can't tell what a person's eating or exercise habits are by looking at them. Some people just have higher metabolisms. I don't exercise nearly enough and plenty of people would think that I'm healthier than my roommate. I also have a bad habit of letting myself get to busy to eat three square meals a day. I'm the type of person who will eat cake for dinner or wake up at midnight to make chilli cheese fries.

Meanwhile, my roommate who would be classified as "overweight" is definitely more fit than I am. Even before her crusade to loose some weight (which even after she reaches her goal according to random charts she would still be ten pounds overweight)she ate better than me. And she has made it a personal goal to incorporate even more vegetables into her diet. She used to run all the time but life got hectic, now she's started up again and can run 3 miles a day. Her stamina increases monthly. I never run ever and my endurance is shit. But at first glance people would assume I'm the healthy one. No, I just have a high metabolism and happen to have a job that isn't sedentary.
Thanks, that's exactly the issue I see, as well. Linking obesity to "lifestyle" so directly is just nonsense. I know many people who have an unhealthy lifestyle, yet do not become fat. To presume that somehow you are living "healthy" just because you're genetically less prone to becoming obese, and then to feel better than those who aren't so lucky, is the exact kind of detestable hypocrisy at the core of our society.

This "genetically/mentally prone to obesity" also ties in with this:
evilthecat said:
I get that hating on fat acceptance is the "in" thing right now, but this is a really extreme exaggeration of what HAES is about.

See, if you actually look at what the rhetoric is saying, you'll find that type of advice being given is actually really good advice for people to lose weight. The difference is that the goal is not conforming to some notion of what a normal size is, but simply finding ways to be more comfortable and healthy to the degree you actually want.
Exactly. Yeah, obesity is unhealthy, but trying to "combat" it with the wrong methods can be even more unhealthy, both physically and mentally. It may actually be in one's own best interests to not try and lose weight with too much desperation, in which case the whole "proud and fat" thing becomes an effective (if wrong/oversimplified) response.




Yan007 said:
Note: I'm speaking mostly from the side of men because I'm a man and it's my perspective.

I think it is perfectly fine for anyone , men and women, to be proud of being overweight and enjoying themselves that way. On the other hand, I find it ridiculous when I hear "fat and beautiful" or "beautiful curvy woman" because for most people fat is NOT beautiful. You can find yourself beautiful all you want, but at the end of the day you can't force others to find you beautiful even if you keep telling them how beautiful you are, meaning the statement "fat and beautiful" in itself is useless maybe except for yourself or others who already enjoy fat women.

Also let's not forget that for the extremely vast majority of people, being overweight is a lifestyle choice. When I see an overweight woman (or man, but I'm not THAT way so I care less), one of the first things that pops in my mind is not her weight itself, but rather how many other deep rooted issues she might have in life. Being overweight is often a symptom of other things and if a woman will let herself go like that, there is no telling what else is lurking.

I used to be obese 10 years ago and am now a bodybuilder and I'm training for the iron man triathlon. I had all the faults I attribute to most fat people such as laziness, sloth, being envious of others and having no "primal energy" or "drive" in life. Was I handsome when I was obese? Hell no. Did I think I was alright the way I was and girls should accept me the way I am? Of course! Did it work? Take a guess... The only women I used to attract with my looks and lifestyle where of poor character and extremely low quality. It took me years to get where I am today and everyday I work on building value and adding to who I am all the time.

Truth be told - the reason why people keep telling themselves "fat is beautiful" is because they don't have the character it takes to change their life and improve themselves. That's okay, not everyone is cut to be an astronaut, but we shouldn't be fooling ourselves.The men who commingle with women who display low value are of low value, display low value or don't know how valuable they are so they settle for less than they could. In their heart of hearts, %99.99999... of men truly would never pick an overweight or obese woman over a thin one, all things being equal. Men simply settle for the best they can get and unfortunately, the average woman is becoming less attractive and the average man is not working on increasing his value.

Sad. Really.
Are you being sincere here? You might as well just be taking the piss with that post, but for the sake of discussion I'll assume you're being sincere.

Let me summarize: You used to not meet society's ideals in an "attractive male". You tried to accept and respect yourself anyway, but somehow that didn't "work". So the conclusion you drew from that, is that there are "better" and "worse" people in the sex game, and clearly the best way to go forward is to "become" one of the "better".

That's saddening, you know. You could have learned from that experience. You could have realized that those judging you so badly are doing it for superficial reasons. You could have realized that you yourself are being superficial in your judgement, and tried to look more closely. You could have attempted to actually understand those women "of poor character and extremely low quality", and see them as actual feeling people rather than sex objects and decorations. You did none of that, you chose the path of least resistance, and now you feel good about yourself. Sorry, I hate to judge on so little information, you may be a totally different person from what you just described yourself as, but if your intention was to sound like a pathetic excuse for a human being in as few words as possible, you have succeeded.
 

TravelerSF

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Nooooooooooooooooo....

I've been overweight most of my shortish life and have no pride about it. There is no reason to be pride about not being able to balance your lifestyle properly. It IS harmful. It is not in your best interest to be fat.

What I can get behind though is the people who have an actual medical condition causing them to gain weight. That and wanting to differentiate being overweight and living unhealthily. I have skinny friends who can eat whatever they want and not move a muscle in weeks without gaining weight, whereas I run 4-5 times a week and have already one half-marathon under my belt. My weight certainly tells a lot of my past lifestyle choices, but does not necessarily reflect my current ones.
 

Just Plain Old Josh

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Yes, there is a fat acceptance movement.

It exists for the same reason any civil rights movement exists: bigotry. It turns out that when society hates and persecutes a class of people, those people get hurt. Socially, psychologically, economically.

Fat people are still human beings, and what does any human being do when they get harassed and disrespected and made fun of day after day? First they get upset. Some give in. But, eventually, others fight back. That?s the story behind the movement to abolish slavery, the rise of labor unions, the sexual equality movement, the racial equality movement, gay rights activism, you name it. And it?s the story behind fat acceptance.

If you think about it, it doesn?t even have anything to do with being fat. People used to get harassed (and still do in some places) for stuff as shallow as hair color and handedness. Bigotry doesn?t care what form it takes. All of this stuff about whether fat is unhealthy and whether it is an economic or environmental burden is a red herring. Bigots always have a rationale ready to go for why the class of people they persecute ?have it coming to them.?

But it?s all beside the point. Whatever the reasons you make up to justify hating on fat people, the bottom line is that the fat acceptance movement only will go away when individuals and society as a whole stop treating fat people like crap. Not before.

Fat acceptance stands for respecting the humanity of fat people.

Ironically, then, the people who most strongly dislike the fat acceptance movement are the people most directly responsible for its continued existence.

My personal advice? Don?t get bent out of shape when other people live their lives in a way that you don?t like. Save the confrontational attitude for stuff that really matters. And if you?re hating on fat people simply because you need somebody to hate, why not just hate on Nickelback? They?ve earned it.

CLASS DISMISSED.

(Extra credit time! If you really want to keep reading, here you go: I know that bigots don?t like to think of themselves as bigots, but I?m not going to indulge their wish for political correctness. The dictionary defines bigotry as ?prejudice,? and prejudice is literally ?pre-judgment?; i.e., making judgments before you should. If you see a stranger, and they?re fat, this doesn?t tell you anything about who that person really is, except for that they?re fat. The fat on their body doesn?t tell you anything about their dreams, their ideology, their family and friends, their personality type, their decency, their intelligence, their health, or anything else. Yet, routinely, people assume that being fat equates to being dumb, selfish, ugly, smelly, unhealthy, perverted, and to having low self-esteem, self-discipline, and self-respect. Notice that the assumed qualities are always negative, never positive. These assumptions are always intended to dehumanize their target. That is bigotry. Luckily, being a bigot is something people can change about themselves.)

(One more bonus credit, because MY POST ISN?T LONG ENOUGH YET RAAAAH!! Somebody upthread said that ?In their heart of hearts, %99.99999... of men truly would never pick an overweight or obese woman over a thin one.? That?s just plain ignorant, son. That claim is scientifically testable, and empirically wrong. It doesn?t even pass the smell test. If only one out of ten million men preferred a fat partner, then, for the entire United States, you could count those men on your fingers. Most men?probably about 60 to 90 percent?do prefer a skinny partner. The other 10 to 40 percent honestly prefer heavier women. And that doesn?t even take social conditioning into account. (Beauty ideals are heavily influenced by social fashion.) By the way, plenty of women also prefer fat men.)

All right. I?m outta here. I saw this thread out of the corner of my eye while watching LRR and couldn?t help myself from commenting. I hope this post did some good for someone.
 

josemlopes

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I really dont get how people can feel bad about their weight, sure you can look into improving it (if its bad for your health you fucking should no matter how proud you are of it) but to feel ashamed?

I am too skinny (not as much now, but back then, geez) and I have been called out on being too skinny. I then decided to at least do something about it since I could at least try to look better and be healthier but even then I still went to the beach and was all cool with it and shit (and even looking at pictures of that time I was really fucking skinny).

In the end it was actually Crohn's disease so yeah (getting treatment currently and looking better)... Now even though I am still skinny I still know that I was never ashamed of being way too skinny and all I wanted for myself was to be healthier (never actually proud of looking the way I looked, just cool with it I guess).
 

Weaver

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My favourite fat guy on the internet basically shares my thoughts:
 

tippy2k2

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Weaver said:
My favourite fat guy on the internet basically shares my thoughts:
...beautiful



I feel that Eternal Lament [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.849599-Fat-and-proud#20981749] wrote it perfectly and this video expands on everything I believe with the "Fat Acceptance" movement.

It's so hard to talk about it without people getting upset (since no one likes to believe they're doing something wrong). I said it in the OP and I have no problem still admitting it; I could never figure out how to explain my position and my criticisms of "Fat Acceptance" without sounding like a preachy asshole.

I'm going to have to figure out how to put what he said in my own words for it basically nails it. Good show Weaver!
 

Olas

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tippy2k2 said:
Weaver said:
My favourite fat guy on the internet basically shares my thoughts:
...beautiful



I feel that Eternal Lament [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.849599-Fat-and-proud#20981749] wrote it perfectly and this video expands on everything I believe with the "Fat Acceptance" movement.

It's so hard to talk about it without people getting upset (since no one likes to believe they're doing something wrong). I said it in the OP and I have no problem still admitting it; I could never figure out how to explain my position and my criticisms of "Fat Acceptance" without sounding like a preachy asshole.

I'm going to have to figure out how to put what he said in my own words for it basically nails it. Good show Weaver!
Eternal Lament's comment, from what I can tell at least, is criticizing a strawman version of the Fat Acceptance movement. If there's a portion of the FA movement that is actively hostile towards people who lose weight, then of course those people are a problem, but they don't represent what the FA movement is supposed to be about.

Perhaps the reason so many people like you have trouble understanding the FA movement is that you confuse acceptance with endorsement. You see someone who's overweight and proud and assume that means they must think being overweight is as good or better than being thin. But that's not what it means, it means they're happy with themselves the way they are, even if there's room for improvement. Most would rather be thinner than they are, similar to how most people would rather be richer than they are, but it's not a point of shame that they aren't. Being constantly ashamed of yourself is not only needless mental trauma that severely lowers your quality of life, but, at least for some people, the stress and self hatred can actually cause people to eat more and continue to gain weight.

josemlopes said:
I really dont get how people can feel bad about their weight, sure you can look into improving it (if its bad for your health you fucking should no matter how proud you are of it) but to feel ashamed?
Trust me, you CAN feel ashamed, very ashamed. Count yourself lucky that you've never had to experience it yourself. I know people who are really underweight, and although it may not be something they're happy about, I've never gotten the impression that they've felt stigmatized the same way I and other overweight people have. Of course I'm not trying to make a blanket statement about everyone, but I do think for most people there's a difference between how they feel about being underweight vs overweight.
 

Thaluikhain

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SmallHatLogan said:
Dick Cutter sounds like the name of a hard boiled detective on a cop show. Just thought I'd throw that out there.
Heh, now that you mention it, yeah.

SmallHatLogan said:
On topic, I skimmed through her follow up article 8 Things I Learned From Writing An Article Critical Of Fat Acceptance [http://thoughtcatalog.com/carolyn-hall/2014/05/8-things-i-learned-from-writing-an-article-critical-of-fat-acceptance], and while most of it was what I expected, number 7 really stood out to me: "A lot of people believe their doctors are fat-shaming". Yeah, I get that some fat people have to deal with fat shaming on a regular basis, but seriously? A doctor informs you of how your weight will affect your health and now they're a bully? Give me a break.
Actually, no, that's a very serious problem.

You have a lot of fat people (in the US, at least) who go to see a doctor because they have some medical complaint or other, and the doctor doesn't bother diagnosing them because they just assume that all their problems are due to being fat, and that losing weight will fix everything.

With predictable consequences.
 

Bat Vader

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Jasper van Heycop said:
As someone who is a lazy fat fuck, I'm not at all proud of my weight. I'm glad that society keeps reminding me how unhealthy my lifestyle choices are and rejecting me because of them, because I'm now at least trying to do something about it, if I were accepted for being who I was I'd probably die of a heart attack. Thank God for fat shaming!

Being obese isn't something that you should be proud of nor is it healthy. I don't understand how this movement can even exist let alone be popular.

Oh and for those comparing Fat Acceptance to the Gay Rights Movement, congrats on making a false equivalency argument. Being gay is something you can do nothing about and it also doesn't harm anyone at all, while being obese is preventable and also harmful to yourself and possibly society as a whole (if everyone is okay with being unhealthy, why would anyone try to be healthy?).
Except shaming almost always causes the person to retreat to what they like the most. Shaming an overweight person isn't going to cause them to lose weight, it's going to cause them to want to eat. Food can be a comforting thing especially to people that are addicted to it and/or really like it. Shaming juts causes the problem to get worse, not better. If people really want the help they can encourage overweight people they know to try and lose weight or even help them.

There is a person at my place of work that is overweight but is to scared of going to the gym because he is scared of being made fun of. Instead of just telling him to man up or shaming him I told him I will go with him to he,p him exercise. If society wants to make people get over their problems they need to help them, not shame them.
 

Joos

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If you are fat, I won't be a dick to you about it but it doesn't stop me from judging you in my head. Can't help it, it's just the way I am.
 

Vault101

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The Lunatic said:
It is not the same as "Gay Pride" you do not choose to be gay, you choose to be fat by either sheer laziness or entitlement to the extent you believe that people have to accept your unhealthy lifestyle.
.
and its not the same in that being gay is not some kind of disease/defect

I don't think anyone denying being obsese is bad for a number of reasons

but we like in a world with narrow definitions of beuty...not everyone is or ever will be stick thin
 

DirgeNovak

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thaluikhain said:
Like most of these "pride" things, it's not so much pride, in the normal sense, as it is "no, you can't shame me into disappearing". Lots of people like picking on fat people, Fat Acceptance is basically other people saying "knock that off". Same as the Gay Pride thing, which seems mostly to be gay people angry at having to pretend not to exist reminding everyone that they do.
That's how I see it too. I'm definitely not proud to be fat, but just fucking stop pointing it out to me every time I eat anything. If I eat pizza, there'll always be some asshole telling me "Ooohh, you shouldn't be eating that, you know, cause you're fat", and if I'm eating a cucumber, that same **** is going to tell me "Ooohh, it's good you're eating that, cause you're fat". Just cut that shit out. Even now as I'm losing weight, I feel like I'm getting more negative comments about my weight as when I wasn't trying. It's nuts.
 

AVATAR_RAGE

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A lot people have warped views on weight here that I would like to correct, but I will keep it short.

First off, yes being overweight does increase potential health problems. However these health problems occur on an individual basis. Other factors that affect your health include age and family history. So you can be skinny with the same health problems as someone who is overweight, or someone who is overweight can in better shape than a thinner person. The figures used to present health issues in overweight people are often composed of correlations comprised by medical companies.

Next up is socially constructed beauty. Beauty is often seen as a construct of the society that you live in. In modern western society beauty is measured by how thin you are, not to be confused by how healthy you are. Now there is a lot of debate of why our culture got to view such an image. Some point it to the wealth of the country in question. This comes from social and historical research that suggests that heavier or curvier body shapes are considered to be attractive in cultures that are lacking in wealth or food is harder to come by. Here having a wider girth shows affluence. But in the West where wealth is plentiful within society (note, this does not mean everyone is rich), smaller waist lines are positive.

Some place this change on the early stages of the feminist movement too. Here it is theorised that the feminist reaction to female body shapes, curvier body shapes considered to be easier to objectify. Thinner and thinner body shapes came into the lime light, as aspects of the media exploited the change and in order to profit (blame the patriarchy I suppose). These are just two social theories about body shape. There are more out there if you look, just remember to look for valid sources.

So yeah to summarise let fat people be happy with their bodies, because at the end of the day it is not up to you to determine the happiness of others.
 

Robot Number V

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First of all, I want to say that while I'm not what you'd call fat, I could definitely stand to lose some weight. And I have, I used to be bigger. And as someone who is not in the peak of physical health, I firmly believe that "fat acceptance" is bullshit. It has nothing to do with how it looks, and everything to do with health. I'll admit right now that I don't really have any idea of what differentiates an obese person from someone with...I don't know....a "larger" body type, and I guess that, as long as your doctor says you're healthy, I don't really care. But if you're NOT being healthy, your behavior should not be "accepted". You can make your own choices, but don't ask everyone else to approve of them.

THAT BEING SAID: Don't be an asshole. Fat shaming is just as bad as fat acceptance. Ostracizing people for their decisions is hardly a solution, it doesn't help anyone. Encourage people to make healthy decisions, and be nice about it. I mean, obviously.