Fat and proud?

Olas

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Dec 24, 2011
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tippy2k2 said:
Weaver said:
My favourite fat guy on the internet basically shares my thoughts:
...beautiful



I feel that Eternal Lament [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.849599-Fat-and-proud#20981749] wrote it perfectly and this video expands on everything I believe with the "Fat Acceptance" movement.

It's so hard to talk about it without people getting upset (since no one likes to believe they're doing something wrong). I said it in the OP and I have no problem still admitting it; I could never figure out how to explain my position and my criticisms of "Fat Acceptance" without sounding like a preachy asshole.

I'm going to have to figure out how to put what he said in my own words for it basically nails it. Good show Weaver!
Eternal Lament's comment, from what I can tell at least, is criticizing a strawman version of the Fat Acceptance movement. If there's a portion of the FA movement that is actively hostile towards people who lose weight, then of course those people are a problem, but they don't represent what the FA movement is supposed to be about.

Perhaps the reason so many people like you have trouble understanding the FA movement is that you confuse acceptance with endorsement. You see someone who's overweight and proud and assume that means they must think being overweight is as good or better than being thin. But that's not what it means, it means they're happy with themselves the way they are, even if there's room for improvement. Most would rather be thinner than they are, similar to how most people would rather be richer than they are, but it's not a point of shame that they aren't. Being constantly ashamed of yourself is not only needless mental trauma that severely lowers your quality of life, but, at least for some people, the stress and self hatred can actually cause people to eat more and continue to gain weight.

josemlopes said:
I really dont get how people can feel bad about their weight, sure you can look into improving it (if its bad for your health you fucking should no matter how proud you are of it) but to feel ashamed?
Trust me, you CAN feel ashamed, very ashamed. Count yourself lucky that you've never had to experience it yourself. I know people who are really underweight, and although it may not be something they're happy about, I've never gotten the impression that they've felt stigmatized the same way I and other overweight people have. Of course I'm not trying to make a blanket statement about everyone, but I do think for most people there's a difference between how they feel about being underweight vs overweight.
 

Thaluikhain

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SmallHatLogan said:
Dick Cutter sounds like the name of a hard boiled detective on a cop show. Just thought I'd throw that out there.
Heh, now that you mention it, yeah.

SmallHatLogan said:
On topic, I skimmed through her follow up article 8 Things I Learned From Writing An Article Critical Of Fat Acceptance [http://thoughtcatalog.com/carolyn-hall/2014/05/8-things-i-learned-from-writing-an-article-critical-of-fat-acceptance], and while most of it was what I expected, number 7 really stood out to me: "A lot of people believe their doctors are fat-shaming". Yeah, I get that some fat people have to deal with fat shaming on a regular basis, but seriously? A doctor informs you of how your weight will affect your health and now they're a bully? Give me a break.
Actually, no, that's a very serious problem.

You have a lot of fat people (in the US, at least) who go to see a doctor because they have some medical complaint or other, and the doctor doesn't bother diagnosing them because they just assume that all their problems are due to being fat, and that losing weight will fix everything.

With predictable consequences.
 

Bat Vader

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Jasper van Heycop said:
As someone who is a lazy fat fuck, I'm not at all proud of my weight. I'm glad that society keeps reminding me how unhealthy my lifestyle choices are and rejecting me because of them, because I'm now at least trying to do something about it, if I were accepted for being who I was I'd probably die of a heart attack. Thank God for fat shaming!

Being obese isn't something that you should be proud of nor is it healthy. I don't understand how this movement can even exist let alone be popular.

Oh and for those comparing Fat Acceptance to the Gay Rights Movement, congrats on making a false equivalency argument. Being gay is something you can do nothing about and it also doesn't harm anyone at all, while being obese is preventable and also harmful to yourself and possibly society as a whole (if everyone is okay with being unhealthy, why would anyone try to be healthy?).
Except shaming almost always causes the person to retreat to what they like the most. Shaming an overweight person isn't going to cause them to lose weight, it's going to cause them to want to eat. Food can be a comforting thing especially to people that are addicted to it and/or really like it. Shaming juts causes the problem to get worse, not better. If people really want the help they can encourage overweight people they know to try and lose weight or even help them.

There is a person at my place of work that is overweight but is to scared of going to the gym because he is scared of being made fun of. Instead of just telling him to man up or shaming him I told him I will go with him to he,p him exercise. If society wants to make people get over their problems they need to help them, not shame them.
 

Joos

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Dec 19, 2007
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If you are fat, I won't be a dick to you about it but it doesn't stop me from judging you in my head. Can't help it, it's just the way I am.
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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The Lunatic said:
It is not the same as "Gay Pride" you do not choose to be gay, you choose to be fat by either sheer laziness or entitlement to the extent you believe that people have to accept your unhealthy lifestyle.
.
and its not the same in that being gay is not some kind of disease/defect

I don't think anyone denying being obsese is bad for a number of reasons

but we like in a world with narrow definitions of beuty...not everyone is or ever will be stick thin
 

DirgeNovak

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thaluikhain said:
Like most of these "pride" things, it's not so much pride, in the normal sense, as it is "no, you can't shame me into disappearing". Lots of people like picking on fat people, Fat Acceptance is basically other people saying "knock that off". Same as the Gay Pride thing, which seems mostly to be gay people angry at having to pretend not to exist reminding everyone that they do.
That's how I see it too. I'm definitely not proud to be fat, but just fucking stop pointing it out to me every time I eat anything. If I eat pizza, there'll always be some asshole telling me "Ooohh, you shouldn't be eating that, you know, cause you're fat", and if I'm eating a cucumber, that same **** is going to tell me "Ooohh, it's good you're eating that, cause you're fat". Just cut that shit out. Even now as I'm losing weight, I feel like I'm getting more negative comments about my weight as when I wasn't trying. It's nuts.
 

AVATAR_RAGE

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May 28, 2009
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A lot people have warped views on weight here that I would like to correct, but I will keep it short.

First off, yes being overweight does increase potential health problems. However these health problems occur on an individual basis. Other factors that affect your health include age and family history. So you can be skinny with the same health problems as someone who is overweight, or someone who is overweight can in better shape than a thinner person. The figures used to present health issues in overweight people are often composed of correlations comprised by medical companies.

Next up is socially constructed beauty. Beauty is often seen as a construct of the society that you live in. In modern western society beauty is measured by how thin you are, not to be confused by how healthy you are. Now there is a lot of debate of why our culture got to view such an image. Some point it to the wealth of the country in question. This comes from social and historical research that suggests that heavier or curvier body shapes are considered to be attractive in cultures that are lacking in wealth or food is harder to come by. Here having a wider girth shows affluence. But in the West where wealth is plentiful within society (note, this does not mean everyone is rich), smaller waist lines are positive.

Some place this change on the early stages of the feminist movement too. Here it is theorised that the feminist reaction to female body shapes, curvier body shapes considered to be easier to objectify. Thinner and thinner body shapes came into the lime light, as aspects of the media exploited the change and in order to profit (blame the patriarchy I suppose). These are just two social theories about body shape. There are more out there if you look, just remember to look for valid sources.

So yeah to summarise let fat people be happy with their bodies, because at the end of the day it is not up to you to determine the happiness of others.
 

Robot Number V

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First of all, I want to say that while I'm not what you'd call fat, I could definitely stand to lose some weight. And I have, I used to be bigger. And as someone who is not in the peak of physical health, I firmly believe that "fat acceptance" is bullshit. It has nothing to do with how it looks, and everything to do with health. I'll admit right now that I don't really have any idea of what differentiates an obese person from someone with...I don't know....a "larger" body type, and I guess that, as long as your doctor says you're healthy, I don't really care. But if you're NOT being healthy, your behavior should not be "accepted". You can make your own choices, but don't ask everyone else to approve of them.

THAT BEING SAID: Don't be an asshole. Fat shaming is just as bad as fat acceptance. Ostracizing people for their decisions is hardly a solution, it doesn't help anyone. Encourage people to make healthy decisions, and be nice about it. I mean, obviously.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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Well, I have mixed opinions. For one I don't quite agree that the US really has an obesity epidemic greater than that elsewhere in the world. It's actually a first world issue. The fact is mostly that the US likes to air it's dirty laundry and point to it's own flaws excessively, while other countries try and conceal the truth or at least remain quiet about it, to the point of lying in terms of internal propaganda and so on. Pretty much every first world country has the same basic problem, as it stems less from overeating, than technological development leading to more sedimentary lifestyles among the people. As a general rule in the first world just about everyone trains for some kind of largely cereberal position (management, technology, etc...) which they approach with high hopes, your typical person winds up as a cog in the machine, suffering from depression and constant stress especially as the pressures to keep even a miserable job and make ends meet with it mount, and of course being very sedimentary during one of these jobs. These same stressed out people get home and aren't exactly in any condition to exercise or whatever. Weight gain is also heavily tied to certain drugs which are used to treat depression, anxiety, and other conditions that are at an epidemic status as well, most of these drugs also cause a degree of fatigue which contributes to everything else. Overeating is likewise not as big a problem as the quality of food due to poor regulation, as even poor people who have trouble getting enough food for their families and need assistance from things like food stamps can be quite obese, despite not eating an unusual amount. There are a lot of issues, but it's largely the price of success. The UK, Canada, and other nations have the same problems, to a similar degree, even if they aren't willing to confess to the extent of it. I've run into a few things covering it in the past.

I think the "fat pride" thing comes more or less from an increasing number of people realizing where the problem comes from, and seeing that there aren't any easy solutions to the problem. It's not so much a matter of "eat less, exercise more" as much as a lot of people want to simplify it that way. So called "health food" costs a premium, and the price whould have to be lowered (which also gets into the whole concept of food deserts), likewise society would have to otherwise go through a lot of major changes, as a big step would be dealing with the mental health epidemic in terms of societal depression and anxiety and such, which would in turn get a lot of people off certain drugs, and along with both of those things would lead to more people being less constantly wrecked allowing them to do more. As time has gone on some basic understanding of this problem has risen, as young, healthy people, or happy successful people who were into fat shaming wind up entering the grind one way or another and then realize after a while "holy crap, I'm obese too, it crept up on me" and this leads to people "getting it" as they see it happening.

It's a big mess, but strangely a lot of my opinions about society and even politics have come from things like this. For example when looking at the whole depression epidemic it's occurred to me that one of the biggest problems is an educational system that lies to people and tells every kid "your a winner, your special" and grooms them with high expectations, even when the weeding out process has already happened and the truly exceptional have already been separated from the herd. You don't want to exactly insult kids and tell them "your worthless" or anything like that,
but you shouldn't be telling people how great they are during their formative years, and setting them up for crushing psychological problems when reality hits. I mean it seems almost everyone is depressed because they wind up with
degrees they can't use combined with a mountain of debt, and jobs they hate if they can even find jobs, all because
they were convinced they could do anything and follow their dreams as opposed to setting realistic goals. That's not
the only step, but if you can get people off the Prozac, paxil, Lexapro, celexa, and other kinds of massively
prescribed psycho-drugs that right there is probably going to start shedding pounds on a society-wide level and lead
to thinner, healthier, future generations.... also understand "realistic goals" doesn't need to be bad, it's just that not everyone can be management for example, it's ridiculous when you have like 300 qualified people going for one management job, where some job working a piece of machinery might have to be filled by someone brought in from another country despite it paying like $25/hour because nobody in the US trained to do things like that. One guy gets the job the other 299 people feel like failures, go to jobs they hate (if they can find them) and pop psycho-drugs prescribed by the mental health establishment, which contributes to them blowing up like balloons (even if it's not the sole cause).


Now granted, to be fair your dealing with a guy who is currently morbidly obese (6' 1", 250lbs, which is fat even with broad shoulders) and as I have pointed out in other discussions has brain damage and takes some pretty substantial drugs (which I've looked into on my own, along with other similar drugs, and have learned exactly how prescribed things for depression, anxiety, etc... happen to be... leading to a lot of people talking about the over prescription of certain drugs as catch all remedies, but that's another discussion entirely), so I confess to having a bit of a complex about it. I was never really little, but nowadays I'm an ultra-soft flesh balloon, whose lucky to be able to focus enough to play video games or rant on the internet some days. I suppose I can't be considered entirely impartial, but as I said, I've actually been paying attention to this issue and things surrounding it.
 

SmallHatLogan

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thaluikhain said:
SmallHatLogan said:
On topic, I skimmed through her follow up article 8 Things I Learned From Writing An Article Critical Of Fat Acceptance [http://thoughtcatalog.com/carolyn-hall/2014/05/8-things-i-learned-from-writing-an-article-critical-of-fat-acceptance], and while most of it was what I expected, number 7 really stood out to me: "A lot of people believe their doctors are fat-shaming". Yeah, I get that some fat people have to deal with fat shaming on a regular basis, but seriously? A doctor informs you of how your weight will affect your health and now they're a bully? Give me a break.
Actually, no, that's a very serious problem.

You have a lot of fat people (in the US, at least) who go to see a doctor because they have some medical complaint or other, and the doctor doesn't bother diagnosing them because they just assume that all their problems are due to being fat, and that losing weight will fix everything.

With predictable consequences.
Really? To be honest I'm kind of surprised. I'm no doctor but it seems like a pretty irresponsible and lazy way of practising medicine.
 

Thaluikhain

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SmallHatLogan said:
Really? To be honest I'm kind of surprised. I'm no doctor but it seems like a pretty irresponsible and lazy way of practising medicine.
Yeah, apparently it's not uncommon.

Points to a really serious problem with how fat people are viewed, even by people who should definitely know better. There's also stuff like dosages of medicines being determined with average body sizes in mind, medical tools being designed for certain body shapes, which has led to some quite nasty problems.
 

Boris Goodenough

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thaluikhain said:
Yeah, apparently it's not uncommon.

Points to a really serious problem with how fat people are viewed, even by people who should definitely know better. There's also stuff like dosages of medicines being determined with average body sizes in mind, medical tools being designed for certain body shapes, which has led to some quite nasty problems.
It's a complex problem to be honest

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/01/21/obesity.discrimination/

For example, although the article doesn't mention it, surgery on people who are obese (BMI > 30) it is much more risky due to poor blood circulation and will often lead to infections (that tend to not go away easily).
Not to mention risk of mistakes when doing surgery on obese people because holding back fat increases mistakes.

All this adds up to highly increased risk of being sued in the US, so it is better for them to wash their hands so to speak.
 

Rellik San

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I would like to point out there is a difference between fat and unhealthy:

I'm fat I'm about a stone and a half (21 lbs) over what I should be according to medical experts, but I'd hardly say I'm unhealthy, I walk a lot, I don't really work out beyond going hiking/climbing 4 or 5 times a week, I have no trouble pushing an average car along a flat plane, I could probably benefit from some more cardio based stuff and I could definitely eat better (fucking salt and pepper pringles man, they'll be the death of me).

But I can run from my home to the other side of the town centre (about a mile) without too much effort, as I said I do a lot of walking and climbing and although I snack a lot it, tends to be on fruit or veg (and pringles), my main meals I fit in a decent amount of veg and think I eat fairly balanced meals (if the portions are a little larger than they should be). Which for a traditional neck beard like me is probably an amazing achievement.

I've maintained this lifestyle and weight for about 10 years, never deprived myself a single ferrero roche, but can still out sit up most of my gym going friends (mainly out of sheer willpower).

And for those saying us fatties aren't capable of getting "valuable" women (whatever the hell that means), I've been in a relationship with a funny, beautiful, athletic, intelligent woman (who's worked as for one of the UK's top universities and is now a dedicated VLE programmer) for close to 4 years now. So either I'm the exception, or you really are talking out of your arse. (and yes I'm aware bragging about my amazing girlfriend makes me sound like a douche).
 

Thaluikhain

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Spot1990 said:
Except it was. Look at it. "Transfat", a person essentially screaming about being a fat person trapped in a skinny persons body and trying to make a transition. The only times I've ever seen that post was in response to pro-trans articles online. It's meant to sound ludicrous because it's comparing being "transfat" to transgendered. Why do you think he refers to the "asshole" as white and cisgendered? What does that have to do with "transfat"? The entire point of that post is to belittle people.
Transfats is a "real" thing...in that there are people who claim to be oppressed transfat people.

It's absurd, yes...but then again, there is/was someone on this forum who claims to be transethnic, and is really Japanese, despite being Anglo-Saxon of no Japanese heritage who has never been to Japan.
 

Daniel Janhagen

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shootthebandit said:
Yan007 said:
In their heart of hearts, %99.99999... of men truly would never pick an overweight or obese woman over a thin one
I dont think that is true (either that or im the 0.000001 percentile) I think in a lot of cases overweight women can be very attractive. I think obese is a different issue but certainly an overweight woman can look amazing. It just depends on the person
If we're doing a poll, count me in the chubby-chaser camp as well. Fat is what everything that's good to hold on a body is built out of. Butts, breasts, bellies, love handles... Less is not, nor has it ever been, more. Bigger is better. That's my opinion. It doesn't have to be yours or anyone else's. I just like overweight women. And exactly nobody was harmed by that.

A slim woman, a thin woman, or a muscular woman can be very beautiful, and indeed women often are, but I'm not attracted to them in any sexual way. I suppose it could happen, but it hasn't since I was a teenager (and let's be honest, what isn't sexually attractive when you're a teenage boy?).

For the record, I am a bit over 180 cm, or exactly 6 ft, and a bit over 80 kg (that would be somewhere around 175-180 lbs?) and as far as I know I'm not in any way genetically related to the black people that Chris Rock is talking about.