Female Friendzone?

[OtherSideofSky]

I've seen a fair women complaining about it on Tumblr and on a few blogs supposedly dedicated to gender issues.

As with their male counterparts, they pretty much all come off as sexually entitled jerks who can't handle even polite rejection.

 

[Vegosiux]

Secondly, yeah. This sort of stuff can make friendships messy, which is why it's so hard to figure out. The reason girls give vague answers is because they want to maintain the status quo. Though it's clear the guy does not have hostile intentions when giving romantic attention to a girl, if she doesn't want a relationship in a way he's holding their friendship hostage. She's pushed to the precipice of "Do I go out with this guy who I don't like to make him feel better?" and "Do I reject this guy and possibly lose and complicate what has up to this point been a great friendship?" And the same thing happens when a girl fancies a guy friend.

That's an incredibly selfish view. Just what entitles Person A to the friendship of Person B, or indeed, to the company of Person B? Why is Person B supposed to accept the status quo they are unhappy with while Person A can take Person B and the "friendship" for granted? Sometimes decisions need to be made. Sometimes people need to take a break from other people. And it's not a good trait to assume other people exist for your benefit and that you're automatically entitled to their time.

If the other person is hurt because, well they let themselves be vulnerable and took a hit, and decide they need some time to lick their wounds, who are you (the general you, not you specifically) to deny them that time? To make them out as a bad person because they need that time?

And, in theory, the best way to deal with such a problem is to let them down as quietly as possible. Do it too quickly and the whole thing might break, making the bad feelings worse than they have to be. I'm not saying that's the best way to do it, just that that's the logic that's going through someone's head when they do something like that. They just want everything to go back to normal as soon and as painlessly as possible.

As soon as painlessly as possible for themselves, yes. Because they're taking the friendship for granted, considering it the "default" situation, disregarding the fact that the other person might have an own mind and the right to make their own decisions.

"Letting people down gently" doesn't work in practice. It comes across as patronizing, as if Person A thinks so little of Person B to believe Person B can't handle a little truth. I'd sure have a hard time being friends with people who'd give me so little credit.

 

[Lieju]

Well, I'm female (a lesbian), and there has been girls/women I fell for who gave me the 'let's just be friends' answer.

Never considered this to be 'friendzoning', just, you know, rejection because they didn't feel the same for whatever reason.

The friendzone is something you do to yourself. Usually when you pretend to care about someone as a friend so you can get in their pants.

I disagree, though that can be the case.

I would also consider the friend-zone to be when someone flirts with someone just enough to keep them strung along without ever having intentions to enter into a romantic relationship with that person, they then use these poor fools as an ego-boost when they hit a rough patch or when a relationship ends, one day the person being strung along may get brave enough to ask the person stringing them along out at which point the person stringing them along will say they don't think of them that way.

People can misread the gestures of others, though, and project their own feelings into their behaviour.
I say this as a someone who has apparently 'misled' several guys by simply being nice to them and talking with them about shared interests.
Because that's apparently 'flirting'...

 

[Lilani]

That's an incredibly selfish view. Just what entitles Person A to the friendship of Person B, or indeed, to the company of Person B? Why is Person B supposed to accept the status quo they are unhappy with while Person A can take Person B and the "friendship" for granted? Sometimes decisions need to be made. Sometimes people need to take a break from other people. And it's not a good trait to assume other people exist for your benefit and that you're automatically entitled to their time.

If the other person is hurt because, well they let themselves be vulnerable and took a hit, and decide they need some time to lick their wounds, who are you (the general you, not you specifically) to deny them that time? To make them out as a bad person because they need that time?

I put in a little edit after I wrote this, but I guess it just missed your quoting of me. In it, I said it may not be the right thing to do, but that's what's going through their head at the time. And I think when people are friends, they are both entitled to each other's friendship, that's sort of how it works. So when one's desire in that relationship changes and the other's doesn't, then yeah. There's going to be resistance, and neither of them is going to want to admit that things are changing in a way that is irrevocable.

And I'm a bit baffled by your bringing up the "denying the time to lick the wounds" thing here. I wasn't talking about that there, I was talking about the situation in general. I didn't address the whole "you're an asshole for licking your wounds" thing until the last.

As soon as as painlessly possible for themselves, yes. Because they're taking the friendship for granted, considering it the "default" situation, disregarding the fact that the other person might have an own mind and the right to make their own decisions.

"Letting people down gently" doesn't work in practice. It comes across as patronizing, as if Person A thinks so little of Person B to believe Person B can't handle a little truth. I'd sure have a hard time being friends with people who'd give me so little credit.

Can I just make this clear again, before I get another tirade like this? I'm not saying it's fair. I'm not saying it's right. I'm not saying it should happen.

But it does, because that's just how people work. Yes, it's selfish to try and maintain a status quo someone else doesn't want. But that's what people do when they're cornered--they act selfishly. They look out for number one and convince themselves that in the process they're looking after number two as well. So yes, it's selfish. It's selfish, it's selfish, it's selfish. Selfish. Just as selfish as the guys who refuse to get over a girl because they've convinced themselves that they are the only one who can make her happy.

And before you lay into that last sentence, I'm going to clarify what I mean by that. I was referring to a totally different type of friendzone situation than what we were just discussing. I'm not saying guys who like female friends are automatically selfish. I am, however, saying guys who exhibit almost stalker-like behavior because their feelings have been cornered (remember that? being cornered? makes people selfish?). Selfishness can come from all sides. And please, before you tell me again that I'm saying letting people down lightly is fair or should happen and that it's right to vilify someone for "licking their wounds" or whatever, read the last paragraph I wrote before. Actually, I'll just copy it again.

Plus, if they already have a well-established friendship, making the assumption that he/her just wanted to get in her/his pants should be a very difficult one. If two people are long-time friends, one of them confesses feelings, and then stays away for a while after the rejection, and the other is just immediately willing to assume that all of their previous experiences as friends was a sham, then it seems the friendship wasn't too solid to begin with.

People don't work the way they should. It's sad, but true. And unfortunately we just have to learn to deal with this. Shouting at each other over the Internet about whether or not these things should happen is not going to change the fact that they will happen, and the best we can do is share this knowledge and deal with the situations when they arise.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I've had a guy say he loved me in private and then was all like 'let's just be friends' and when I was upset his mates acted like I was this crazy ***** that had no right to feel that way...

That was right after I got out of an abusive relationship.

I know how to pick em.

 

[thejackyl]

As a guy who has a large amount of female friends I will say this much:

I have friends that I would date if they showed interest
I have friends that I wouldn't date even if they showed interest

I don't think I have friends that I wouldn't date simply because we're friends. In fact I would rather go out with some of my friends instead of meeting a complete stranger and trying to start a relationship with someone I hardly know.

And, just because I WOULD date some them, doesn't mean I'm just friends with them to get in their pants.

Hell, I've told my best friend "I wish I could meet someone like your wife", several times. To the point that it's an inside joke that I'm secretly plotting to get him out of the picture. That doesn't mean I want his wife specifically, I meant more personality wise.

 

[Kroxile]

or separate yourself from her until you can get over it.

*bzzzzzzzt* We're sorry, but that is *not* the correct answer.

You may have missed the whole way that one gets responded to -- if after being friends a while he approaches, gets rejected, and then separates himself from her because, well, he's hurt and needs a nonzero amount of time to get over it then he's *really* an asshole who was only ever her friend because he wanted in her pants and when that didn't happen he no longer had any reason to hang around -- don't you know how this works?

What both of you said is 100% true. Speaking from "an on-going current event in my life" experienced point of view. But the whole catch is this: You simply have to not care whether or not her or her other friends see you as an asshole now. People can think all you wanted to do was get in her pants, but as long as you know differently, what else matters?

And to the people claiming the friendzone doesn't exist... just shut up.

 

[senordesol]

Goddamnit I hate this "friend zone" bullshit about it being about getting into someone's pants. FUCKING STOP ASSUMING THAT.

Yes, that is the case sometimes, but to just unequivocally make that statement is a gross misrepresentation of the entire issue. A friend zone can be anything and it is indeed a legit problem for some people.


As for the topic, yes. Girls get friend zoned all the time. Half the albums Taylor Swift puts out addresses that. It's just not as big of an issue for them normally because they don't have to go through the "first move" stuff. And there is always another guy waiting in reserve who would happily take her. So more often than not, they can settle instead of being outright rejected.

And I say this as a social psychology major.

Don't you think that's a bit of a generalization?

I will say, though, that I agree in that I don't understand the outright hostility taken toward people in the 'friendzone'. I've been in the friendzone. Alot. It sucks. And had nothing to do with sex.

Is it really so inconceivable that you'd like someone as a person so much, that you'd like to know them better as a potential mate? Is the frustration and angst that stems from the knowledge or the fear that making a move might push them away forever really so unrelatable? Is the notion that someone could be so socially awkward and lacking in confidence (or looks) that the idea of seeking out other prospects is too daunting really so foreign?

I can easily see (and have seen) both males and females in the 'friendzone'. Be it a problem with your looks, social graces, or confidence; it's real fucking easy to land yourself there and stick.

Perhaps this will help you understand why everyone thinks that "a guy bring your friend = backstabber son of a *****"

I'm not sure I understand your post, but I do appreciate the video. It concisely makes most of the points I've been trying to. (A man who is in love with a woman is not a predator, nor feeling 'entitled' just because he feels frustration at being rebuffed. He is clearly working for her affections, he is clearly trying very hard to win her over -not because he wants to rub his bits against her bits- but because he genuinely likes her as a person and as a potential mate. For one to be so invested, and to be so spurned, is not a myth. It may be pitiable. It may be pathetic. But it is not a myth)

 

[Devetta]

I don't like the term friendzoned, however it is the best word for it that I can think of.
I have been friendzoned in the past and I have done it myself to a few male friends, you just have to be open and honest to avoid hurting both parties feelings and their friendship, the longer it goes on un-adressed the worse it gets for whoever has the crush.

It can be a thin line with friendships when it comes to feelings, you can go through so much together and due to events in life depend on one another in tough times. Which we can misinterpret as being in love.

When I was very depressed and in a horrible situation my best mate and I both started to have stronger feelings for one another, when voiced how we felt we decided to give it a go and after one week realised our friendship was more important than a relationship together, it simply wouldn't work.
We both regret the impulse, however we both rejoice that we didn't cling on to those feelings in an effort to make life "perfect", in reality it wouldn't have been and it would of ruined a 12 year friendship beyond repair.


...

I apologize if this doesn't quite make sense, my brain didn't want to work with my fingers, also how many times can I say the word friend in one post.

 

[Comocat]

I was friend-zoned with my wife for about 3 years before we finally settled things and got together. It was basically a mesh of her being "a cockblock" (her words) and me not wanting to alienate someone who was probably my best friend at the time. I think "friend-zone" is just a loaded word for two people who like each other but are at different places in their lives.

 

[BlackFlyme]

or separate yourself from her until you can get over it.

Plus, if they already have a well-established friendship, making the assumption that he/her just wanted to get in her/his pants should be a very difficult one. If two people are long-time friends, one of them confesses feelings, and then stays away for a while after the rejection, and the other is just immediately willing to assume that all of their previous experiences as friends was a sham, then it seems the friendship wasn't too solid to begin with.

I've witnessed similar things to this before, among some friends in high-school who were rejected. In most cases the rejector would become self-conscious and the friendship would dissolve because of the asker avoiding them.

Specifically avoiding another person can have a marked negative effect on them, as they may feel guilty for doing something "wrong", even though there was nothing wrong with what they did, or they may feel that there is something wrong with themselves that is causing the person to avoid them.

 

[senordesol]

More like, both failed and one is just taking it harder. There's nothing different about the rejection except the reaction, at least in your statement of the difference. And perhaps frequency. But in neither case does the rejection itself change.

True. And I'm not suggesting that the rejection, in itself, is so incredibly different. But that the circumstances of its occurrence are different. Again, I have previously stated that the 'friendzone' is a self-imposed depressive state. One that stems from an inability to meet romantic needs with those of whom you have the most in common.

I further posit that those susceptible to this are not necessarily strangers to rejection -that, indeed, it is likely that they are quite used to rejection. The word that gets thrown around here too casually, however, is 'entitlement' used in the negative to suggest that people are expecting something that they never had the right to expect. I think that's inaccurate in this context.

Those who are truly 'friendzoned' do not go in to the relationship 'expecting' it to wind up in a romantic fashion. They hope for it, they work for it, they pine for it, and even obsess over it; but an 'entitlement' to it is generally not expected. The fact is: the one is simply more emotionally invested than the other. The fact that they would be considered unsuitable as a mate no matter what they do is a looming prospect (and, often, an outright fact) and that knowledge is painful.

It is one thing to be familiar with someone in passing and to then take a shot and to have that shot fall short. It is quite another to feel a deep emotional connection with someone, someone who brightens your day just for being in it, someone who occupies the fore-front of your mind, and to then attempt to share that connection with that person, and then to have those affections spurned, AND THEN to be left bereft, heartbroken, and so terribly alone with each passing day with them a loud and ever-present reminder that you will NEVER mean to them what they mean to you.

Yes, in both cases, a simple rejection is being issued, but the nature of that rejection with regard to the emotional, personal, and material investment to one of those parties is so completely and inescapably crushing that it deserves its own label.

 

[XMark]

Funny thing - the girl I'm currently dating, I've known her for a couple of years. She's quite attractive, but I never really considered her as a potential partner. Not because there was anything wrong with her, just that I never really gave it much thought. And I sort of assumed she was out of my league too, I guess.

A couple of months ago she kind of started acting differently around me, kind of subtly flirting and engineering situations in which we get some one-on-one time together. That's when I started really thinking about it and I eventually responded to her subtle advances with more overt advances of my own (which worked, yay!).

Now, I am not exactly a suave ladies man, I haven't dated in years. I'm quite shy and I've let myself fall into the old "waaaah girls don't like nice guys like me" kind of thinking, and I've certainly been friend-zoned before.

So it was quite an interesting revelation to me that I had been unwittingly been friend-zoning this very attractive woman for at least a few months, simply because I had never really considered the possibility until she began to send signals my way.

So yeah, the female friendzone is a thing.

I guess the big thing, whether you're male or female, is to let your feelings be known, or at least drop strong hints about it. I mean, you can't expect someone to read your mind!

 

[hooblabla6262]

I've had female friends who liked me, who I did not like back romantically. Mostly because I didn't find them attractive. So yes, woman can be "friendzoned". And some woman, like some men, get hung up about it and find people to complain about it too (on the internet, or otherwise).

I would assume that attractiveness (or lack of) is the main cause of the "friendzone", cause why the hell would you be friends with someone whose personality you didn't like.
If someone tells you otherwise, they're probably lying.

And remember, there is always someone out there who will find you attractive. Yes, even you.

 

[Lilani]

I've witnessed similar things to this before, among some friends in high-school who were rejected. In most cases the rejector would become self-conscious and the friendship would dissolve because of the asker avoiding them.

Specifically avoiding another person can have a marked negative effect on them, as they may feel guilty for doing something "wrong", even though there was nothing wrong with what they did, or they may feel that there is something wrong with themselves that is causing the person to avoid them.

As a general rule of thumb, I avoid comparing that happened in gradeschool to how real, adults behave at all costs. Because from what I've seen in the four short years it's been since I graduated high school, the way people behave there and the way people actually behave are two completely different sets of behavior. Everybody's all crammed together and you can never get personal space or establish barriers...high school is nothing like real-life, and most often neither are the relationships that occur there ;-)

Anyway, I only listed the "avoid her until you get over it" thing because the only alternative is to stick it out and pretend nothing happened, which I understand is just impossible sometimes. And yes the friendship might disintegrate in the process, but you're out of the "friend zone" and if you really just can't stand to be around her anymore then it was pretty inevitable from the start. Again, the "friendzone" is just a point of transition. It shouldn't be a long-term state of being, and nor is it something that's inescapable. You can get out, you can always get out. You may not like what happens when you get out, in which case I can see why some might find wallowing there more appealing, but sitting there and trying to will someone else into liking you is just unhealthy.

 

[Lilani]

I would assume that attractiveness (or lack of) is the main cause of the "friendzone", cause why the hell would you be friends with someone whose personality you didn't like.
If someone tells you otherwise, they're probably lying.

Just because you like someone's personality doesn't mean you'll automatically like them romantically. I like my mom's personality but that doesn't mean I want to be romantically involved with her.

 

[Pink Gregory]

I don't think I've ever met a girl who had friend zoned themselves

I read this out of context at first, and was amused at the possibility.

 

[Phasmal]

I would assume that attractiveness (or lack of) is the main cause of the "friendzone", cause why the hell would you be friends with someone whose personality you didn't like.
If someone tells you otherwise, they're probably lying.

Just because you like someone's personality doesn't mean you'll automatically like them romantically. I like my mom's personality but that doesn't mean I want to be romantically involved with her.

Yeah, this, most of my friends are guys. And I like all of them, but I wouldn't date any of them*.
It can be due to not being attracted to them physically, but other times it will be you just have no attraction to them at all, no chemistry. Or you like most of their personality but disagree with them strongly on things you find important.
Lots of reasons really.

*Luckily for me, despite what many people say, males can be friends with women without fancying them.

 

[Lilani]

I would assume that attractiveness (or lack of) is the main cause of the "friendzone", cause why the hell would you be friends with someone whose personality you didn't like.
If someone tells you otherwise, they're probably lying.

Just because you like someone's personality doesn't mean you'll automatically like them romantically. I like my mom's personality but that doesn't mean I want to be romantically involved with her.

Yeah, this, most of my friends are guys. And I like all of them, but I wouldn't date any of them*.
It can be due to not being attracted to them physically, but other times it will be you just have no attraction to them at all, no chemistry. Or you like most of their personality but disagree with them strongly on things you find important.
Lots of reasons really.

*Luckily for me, despite what many people say, males can be friends with women without fancying them.

Exactly. There's a difference between loving someone as a friend and having romantic chemistry. While they aren't always mutually exclusive, they most often are. Otherwise everyone would be in the strange predicament of being in love with everybody they consider to be friends, which would just be really confusing, lol.

 

[Mutie]

The friendzone is something you do to yourself. Usually when you pretend to care about someone as a friend so you can get in their pants.

Hmmm... I think the trouble starts when you genuinely care about someone as a friend, but still want to get in their pants (for want of a better term). And you anxiety about ruining a friendship which makes you happy means taking too long and, whoops, fucking friendzone.