Female Friendzone?

[Moderated]

When I told my friend I didn't feel the same way, she just started avoiding me.

 

[senordesol]

I'm kinda supposed to be doing homework now, so I don't have the time to watch a 30 minute video. Can you summarise what's in it?

"'Nice guys'(TM) are not predators. They are not solely interested in sex. It is perfectly reasonable for them to be disappointed when romantic feelings they posses are not reciprocated. Those who believe otherwise are likely confusing explicit desires with implicit desires (i.e. They say they want 'Nice Guys', but would never ever *really* want one, and must construct these elaborate, malicious justifications [that they're really just after sex] in order to reconcile their world view)"

That doesn't really do justice to the excellent points she makes, but that's the gist of the video.

 

[Phasmal]

I'm kinda supposed to be doing homework now, so I don't have the time to watch a 30 minute video. Can you summarise what's in it?

"'Nice guys'(TM) are not predators. They are not solely interested in sex. It is perfectly reasonable for them to be disappointed when romantic feelings they posses are not reciprocated. Those who believe otherwise are likely confusing explicit desires with implicit desires (i.e. They say they want 'Nice Guys', but would never ever *really* want one, and must construct these elaborate, malicious justifications [that they're really just after sex] in order to reconcile their world view)"

That doesn't really do justice to the excellent points she makes, but that's the gist of the video.

Eh, I feel like a lot of people bring their anecdotes to the table on this one.
I personally (apparently) `friendzoned` someone who was all the bad things about Nice Guys and used the image of the poor rejected nice guys to get a lot of people to turn against me for not sharing his feelings.
I don't think you can say all friendzoned cases are X or Y.

EDIT: Btw I know you were just quoting but a lot of this conversation is either that friendzoned guys are victims or evil. I don't think it's either (obv cause I don't think it is a thing), I think everyone deals with rejection differently.

 

[Asuka Soryu]

What is this 'love' thing you speak of? Is it something Houstlings of planet Houston feel?

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I think its hard when someone who likes spending time with you and shares your interests doesn't like you 'that way' because you feel like 'Well why bother with me at all then if I'm so shit'

That's a hard thing to cope with but I don't think laying it on the other person is the correct thing to do.

 

[Ridrith]

And I say this as a social psychology major.

Internet credibility still zero.

It can and does happen.

 

[Hyper-space]

eh guys are usually more open/straight forward in the fact about being friend zoned, most girls i know wait for the guy to make a move or have 5 other guys hitting on them anyways, so they usually never end up getting "friend zoned", they just pick the 2nd draft pick instead

Holy fucking shit. You just nailed the proverbial nail on its motherfucking head. I rarely give out kudos, but I think its more than apt in this situation.

THIS is the gender-demarcation in experiences of the friend-zone. The whole gender axiom of the Hunter vs. the Prey is what explains why men are more affected by friendly rejection than females. Men who have other opportunities with females besides the friend that they are lusting after do not experience this, because they are more or less coming from the same perspective as females, that is, one of abundance of attention from sexual prospects.

 

[senordesol]

For expediency, however, I'll try again: The 'friendzone' is a self-imposed depressive and obsessive state of mind that stems from either the knowledge or the belief that your romantic needs cannot be met compounded by the fact or notion that even those with whom you have the most in common and are the most personally invested in are not interested in meeting those needs and never will be.

So that's my definition of it. I think it's both concise and accurate.

That's neither concise or accurate.

I think you might be bringing a lot of personal baggage to the conversation.

Why not go with the wikipedia definition:

The "friend zone" refers to a platonic relationship wherein one person wishes to enter into a romantic or sexual relationship, while the other does not.

I've already admitted that I've got baggage in this conversation.

I feel the wikipedia definition fails to explore the real crux of the matter (the one pertinent to this conversation, anyway) and propagates my issues with the over-all dismissive attitudes toward people afflicted by such a condition. The notion that the friendzoned were only after sex or should 'just move on' is dismissive, insulting, and pretty damn cruel.

The pining and ever-present frustration deserves a mention as does the resentment and depression. Now, while we can debate the definition all day, I'm more interested in disabusing the notions that the condition does not exist at all - that heavily invested unrequited lovers unable to satisfy their romantic needs are simply being over-dramatic.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

There is no friendzone, it's just something people make up when they feel bad that they were rejected.

That is absolute nonsense. It is a term given to a state that does in fact exist. People who fall for friends but have their desire go unrequited (and thus can never be more than friends) are friendzoned.

 

[Phasmal]

There is no friendzone, it's just something people make up when they feel bad that they were rejected.

That is absolute nonsense. It is a term given to a state that does in fact exist. People who fall for friends but have their desire go unrequited (and thus can never be more than friends) are friendzoned.

Otherwise known as being rejected.
I just don't think it warrants a special term, especially one that is so often misused.
But I can agree to disagree on this.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

eh guys are usually more open/straight forward in the fact about being friend zoned, most girls i know wait for the guy to make a move or have 5 other guys hitting on them anyways, so they usually never end up getting "friend zoned", they just pick the 2nd draft pick instead

Holy fucking shit. You just nailed the proverbial nail on its motherfucking head. I rarely give out kudos, but I think its more than apt in this situation.

THIS is the gender-demarcation in experiences of the friend-zone. The whole gender axiom of the Hunter vs. the Prey is what explains why men are more affected by friendly rejection than females. Men who have other opportunities with females besides the friend that they are lusting after do not experience this, because they are more or less coming from the same perspective as females, that is, one of abundance of attention from sexual prospects.

haha thanks, i'm not saying its females faults, but society generally has dictated that males have to make the first move and are generally more open about "fancy'ing" females (more than one most of the time too) so women tend to know their options far more often than males do, and for all the males who don't think they are the proverbial "shit", tend to not express their feelings all too well.

i've had quite a few times happen where a female would tell me "oh back (years ago) when we first met, i thought you were really cute and i had a crush on you" and all i can think is "...why the HELL didn't you say something? you stuck yourself in the friendzone for no reason other than because i didn't make a move on you?"

I think its hard when someone who likes spending time with you and shares your interests doesn't like you 'that way' because you feel like 'Well why bother with me at all then if I'm so shit'

That's a hard thing to cope with but I don't think laying it on the other person is the correct thing to do.

very true, the only problem i ever have with this is, the opposing person that might be sending mixed signals (e.g. flirty texts, asks to hang out just 1 on 1, calls you cute/handsome/hot) even after the fact you tell them your feelings and such.

(this is a generalized reply, not just females or males that do this)

 

[senordesol]

I'm kinda supposed to be doing homework now, so I don't have the time to watch a 30 minute video. Can you summarise what's in it?

"'Nice guys'(TM) are not predators. They are not solely interested in sex. It is perfectly reasonable for them to be disappointed when romantic feelings they posses are not reciprocated. Those who believe otherwise are likely confusing explicit desires with implicit desires (i.e. They say they want 'Nice Guys', but would never ever *really* want one, and must construct these elaborate, malicious justifications [that they're really just after sex] in order to reconcile their world view)"

That doesn't really do justice to the excellent points she makes, but that's the gist of the video.

Eh, I feel like a lot of people bring their anecdotes to the table on this one.
I personally (apparently) `friendzoned` someone who was all the bad things about Nice Guys and used the image of the poor rejected nice guys to get a lot of people to turn against me for not sharing his feelings.
I don't think you can say all friendzoned cases are X or Y.

EDIT: Btw I know you were just quoting but a lot of this conversation is either that friendzoned guys are victims or evil. I don't think it's either (obv cause I don't think it is a thing), I think everyone deals with rejection differently.

Since 'Friendzones' are really parts of the human condition rather than a physical place to be objectively explored, yeah, I think a lot of people have to use personal anecdotes in order to get their point and perceptions across. I realize I may have been towing one particular line pretty heavily (one that was consistent with my own experience), but really the thing I wanted to get across was to dissolve the notion that FZ doesn't exist.

The 'whatever, just date someone else' attitude really shows a lack of understanding or care for the emotional weight unrequited love can put on a person. Yes: it is a self-imposed state, and yes: lashing out against the one who spurned you isn't fair (and I'm sorry it happened to you). But it's there! Some people never see it, and some people are good at avoiding it, but it is a thing! Some sympathy, rather than cynicism would not go amiss.

The emotions wrapped up in it can be crippling and are worth far more examination than 'eh, learn 2 deel wiht rejection n00b!'. Jeez, would you (metaphorical, not actual) tell a kid to 'just get over it' when the dog he raised from a puppy dies?

 

[Phasmal]

The 'whatever, just date someone else' attitude really shows a lack of understanding or care for the emotional weight unrequited love can put on a person. Yes: it is a self-imposed state, and yes: lashing out against the one who spurned you isn't fair (and I'm sorry it happened to you). But it's there! Some people never see it, and some people are good at avoiding it, but it is a thing! Some sympathy, rather than cynicism would not go amiss.

The emotions wrapped up in it can be crippling and are worth far more examination than 'eh, learn 2 deel wiht rejection n00b!'. Jeez, would you (metaphorical, not actual) tell a kid to 'just get over it' when the dog he raised from a puppy dies?

I still think you are presenting those people too much as victims.
And maybe some of them are. Obviously, everyone experiences heartbreaks, and some that stay with them for a very long time.
But being hurt does not entitle people to act however they want.

I don't feel I should have to sympathize with the person who was horrible to me, because they certainly didn't sympathize with me.

I would not tell a kid to `just get over it`, but I also would not sympathize if he decided that the dog dying meant he could strangle the cat.


EDIT: To be clear, I'm not saying that there aren't people who are truly good and get hurt. There are. I'm just saying portraying this as a one-sided black-and-white issue is oversimplifying.

 

[Findlebob]

Its the most soul crushing state of existance a human male can live in.

I am bitter.

 

[HoneyVision]

Its the most soul crushing state of existance a human male can live in.

I am bitter.

If you truly believe that, then I feel truly sorry for you. Because there are much worse things a human can experience. Next to a close relative's death, never seeing your home ever again and even rejection from a job, being in the so-called "friend zone" seems like a walk in the park. Seriously, this whole issue has taken on such an exaggerated form it's quite pathetic.

 

[JarinArenos]

I've been a guy that - at least somewhat intentionally - friendzoned a girl who would almost certainly have wanted something more than friendship. I had my reasons, but suffice to say they had nothing to do with her and I wasn't comfortable discussing them with her, so I couldn't (or didn't know how to) be straightforward with it. So I just sorta played dumb and pretended to be a bit oblivious to her flirting.

So yeah, it can happen. On the other hand, I suspect it happens FAR less often to girls, mostly because - in my observation - guys have a far more difficult time seeing "girl-friends" in a platonic light. Be it genetics, society, or whatever, there nearly always seems to be that little portion in the back of a guy's mind (hindbrain?) sizing up any female companions as potential mates. I don't say this as an excuse, as much of what makes up "civilization" is overcoming base instinct, but that's my suspicion as to why the "friendzone" concept seems so horribly one-sided.

For some perspective, and to put the issue into a different light for anyone who still thinks that "friendzoning" is something to blame girls for, read this:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=girlfriend+zone

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

Otherwise known as being rejected.

Yes, that is exactly correct. But it's specifically when one person of a friend pair wants more and the other does not.

I just don't think it warrants a special term, especially one that is so often misused.

Why? We have names for true love, love at first sight, one night stands, break-ups, marriage, divorce, "seeing someone", dating, friends-with-benefits, star-crossed love, forbidden love, familial love, heart-ache, heart-break, out-of-your-league and the rest. Why not a term to describe unrequited love between friends, particularly when it's as common or more, than many of the above?

I think you take issue with the paradigm for the sake of taking issue with it. But whether you dislike the concept or the term for it doesn't change the fact it exists.