Female Perspective - Friend Zone

beniki

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May 28, 2009
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Nah, I don't believe in the 'friend zone' or any of the relationship theories. I've seen enough of the world to know that nobody ever has any idea about what they actually want, and rarely, if ever, understand how they actually feel about anything.

That's not a bad thing, by the way. It's what makes life so terribly interesting!
 

Myeth

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Aug 28, 2010
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Wow. The ladder rating is funny, but I worry about what kind of women the (presumably dudes) who wrote that were unlucky enough to meet xD
 

SeriousIssues

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Jan 6, 2010
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There's a friend zone. But she's going to have to make it clear that there is.
She could be rejecting you because your ears are the size of dinner plates and not just becuase you've texted each other a few times.
 

Myeth

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Wow. The ladder rating is funny, but I worry about what kind of women the (presumably dudes) who wrote that were unlucky enough to meet xD
 

Thundero13

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I'm a guy but i'm also gay, if that changes anything, anyway yes the friend zone exists & it's a terrible place, and if someone sees you as a potential partner but isn't reeeally interested then yes, that can change, if you act in a way that they might take as wanting to just be friends, and if you become too friendly with each other or are linked too closely through your other friends then they may not want to go into a relationship for fear of losing a good friend.
 

TheStatutoryApe

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ZamielTheHunter said:
Good call to get back on topic Bara. I think the Friend Zone concept is not entirely flawed, but that it is being applied outside its original meaning. I think it originally referred to the type of relationship where those involved say "I don't want to screw up the friendship" or something of that sort. That may be a cop out or it may be the truth depending on the person. I think a more strict definition of "Friend Zone" is valid where the current one, which seems to boil down to a magical expiration date on attraction, is not.
The expiration date theory is the same as the "I don't want to screw up our friendship" theory. The theory is that if you wait too long to make your move you will have become to valuable a friend to risk that friendship by dating. Which is pretty much bullshit. If you thought someone was a great potential boyfriend/girlfriend would you really decide that you would rather just be friends because they are such a great friend? And there is a difference between being interested in a relationship with someone and just finding them attractive which unfortunately many people don't get until later in life. It is certainly possible to consider your friend attractive and to decide it best not to date them but its really because despite your attraction to them you don't actually consider them good dating material. I have a female friend like that. I find her incredibly attractive but she has gotten bored of and cheated on just about every single boyfriend/husband of hers I have met.
 

Troublesome Lagomorph

The Deadliest Bunny
May 26, 2009
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Personally, all I care about if the "friend zone" if I understand it properly. Romance be damned. A person you're romantically involved in will stab you a million times but a friend won't.
 

agrajagthetesty

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Hobo Steve said:
http://www.laddertheory.com/

Ladder theory here to save the day!
I am quite honestly appalled. This is one of the most sexist things I've seen in a while - and I hang out on the internet. "Things that women say they care about but don't"... and strangers who aren't in their heads and claim to speak for the entire female sex would know better than these silly deceitful women, would they? I cannot believe this absolute bile even exists.
 

Dr.Nick

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I personally believe that you can only truly be friends with a member of the opposite sex if you do not have any physical attraction for them. That's the only way it has worked for me.
 

Owyn_Merrilin

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agrajagthetesty said:
Hobo Steve said:
http://www.laddertheory.com/

Ladder theory here to save the day!
I am quite honestly appalled. This is one of the most sexist things I've seen in a while - and I hang out on the internet. "Things that women say they care about but don't"... and strangers who aren't in their heads and claim to speak for the entire female sex would know better than these silly deceitful women, would they? I cannot believe this absolute bile even exists.
Did a chauvinist kill you every time you got reincarnated? :p

(So the mods don't smack me: it's a reference to his/her username. Agrajag will get the joke.)
 

grizzlyAssuager

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Feb 23, 2011
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When I tell one of my friends I don't want to date them, yet stay friends, then that means that for whatever reason, their friendship > my attraction to them. They might be great friends, they might be not. Although in the latter case, I will be mercifull and just tell them that it's time to get lost.

That said, I think this friend zone business reinforces itself.

Often I have to tell guys who are NOT close friends that I appreciate their existance, yet do not want to date (yet) There is this kind of guy that strongly pursues a relationship, and maybe even is kind of pushy about it. That guy who seems to be in a hurry to get beyond the getting to know eachother part, and MAKE IT OFFCIAL. You know the one: it's that guy that gives you a great time, even is a bit TOO selfless, and then suddenly "wants to talk about us" on the second date.

Maybe some guys turn this friend zone thing into a self-fullfilling prophecy, where they, trying to avoid it, fall into it again and again. The type of guy that believes in the friend zone, is often also(though this is a generalisation) the "desperate dater", and doing THAT gives you a nice ticket to "your existance is mildy entertaining, but I don't think this is going anywhere."

A male friend of mine theorizes that the friend zone is a concept that exists to alert males of the fact that being friendly in order to get a girl will land them just that: friendship. I strongly disagree with that: it's not like we can't see the difference between our male friends, and that guy who is always a bit TOO kind, and TOO eager. Sometimes it's hard not to be that guy (or that girl, I know I have been there myself), especially when you are in love with someone in some sweet, desperate way.

So ask yourself if you are really friends. Yes? Then it should be possible to talk like friends do, and get her yes or her no, and deal with it accordingly. If she can't give you that, get some better friends, or realize you are that overeager person, and go do something, anything, that's more constructive and fun for all parties involved.

(disclaimer: I might say harsh things here. This is not because I dislike anyone or look down upon then. If you are offended by stuff I write, don't be. I respect you more than you think.)
 
Jun 23, 2008
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Um, guys, the Ladder Theory may work for the 100 IQ club (though it's terribly misogynistic), but it doesn't work for anyone that has a modicum of self awareness. I know that during the mating years (that is from puberty to the early thirties) it might be difficult to think past getting laid, but raw experience has taught me that after the two of you get each other off, your going to want to actually be able to relate.

And this is a good thing, since the Ladder Theory paints women to be prostitutes[footnote]Though in our capitalist society, aren't we all whoring ourselves out? Most of us only get proverbially fucked for compensation, though.[/footnote], and this is hardly the case.

First off, money makes any relationship easier. It's nice to be able to summon a pizza or a romantic dinner at whim, and scarcity, when it surfaces, is always a problem that distracts from, well, relating, in any tense, sexually or no. It doesn't really matter who has the money, though if there's a significant enough disparity in funds, the one who is less funded will find her (or his) own say in the relationship quickly dwindling; exempli gratia, it's much more difficult to not put out when your date can just leave you in Paris to make your own way back to Boise.[footnote]It's an old pressure trick for boys to drive their dates up to lookout point up in the mountains which not only provides a great view of the town, but also makes the girl dependent on him just to get home safely. If she puts up too much resistance, it could end really badly for her.[/footnote] A rich boyfriend[footnote]Feel free to swap genders, or apply this to same-sex relationships.[/footnote] might be a dream so long as he's into you, but once he loses interest, your dependence on him can be a significant liability. So it's good to be sure either that won't happen, or you have a way to keep him entertained after he comes.

Secondly, in my experience, women want sex as much as men do, but to them, social and physical consequences are far more likely, and egregious[footnote]Pregnancy aside, though it too remains an issue, Western Civilization still hasn't outgrown disparaging sexually active women, and plenty of Eastern cultures haven't even outgrown female circumcision [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_cutting].[/footnote], so they have to be much more cautious when deciding with whom they casually hook up.

And the Ladder Theory doesn't explain athletes, artists and rockstars, most of whom are broke and get a groupie following anyway. Of course, you need to put that 10,000 hours into honing your art (or your body), but it's better than putting a similar amount of time into a single relationship that's ultimately not going to pan out.

For those of us who are in the geek culture(s) seeking partners in same, a direct approach will work wonders. I prefer the London phraseology You know, I fancy you like mad. as opposed to the American sidestepping, though Hi, I'm Uri is a great start. If she's disinterested, and you're only interested in nailing her, move on. Get yourself into activity groups where you will meet others with whom you'll share a more poly-faceted interest in each other. When you find the right one, something will happen.

238U.
 

THAC0

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Aug 12, 2009
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Friend zone.
When a woman feels that she has nothing to gain by entering into a relationship with a guy, but doesn't want to loose what ever benefits she is already gaining from the "friendship". Guys will often be f-zoned by girls if they don't have either of the two traits that women are most attracted to (money, and an asshole personality).

My dislike of girls not wit standing, i have to say that i have many friends who are girls. some of them single, one is married, and a few are in relationships with other guys. My advice to guys is: if you like a girl tell her, if she rejects you, move on and don't waist time hanging around her hoping she will wise up. Otherwise you are just asking her to make a doormat out of you.
 

Sentox6

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Jun 30, 2008
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mandaforever said:
Also, sometimes we (girls I mean) just want to be friends with you because we think you're awesome people, you're just awesome in a friend way or youre not our type (at least it's that way for me). Why can't guys and girls just be friends? Sometimes it's better that way. Just because you are interested in someone doesnt mean you have to be going out....you could love them and care for them as a friend.
Easy to say when you're not the one sexually attracted. Believe it or not, Ladder Theory really does explain this one:

It's moreso that:
I have plenty of friends already
I will never be able to truly be friends with them because my perspective will be colored by my desire to sleep with them
If they are not cool then they are probably just attractive and why would I want to hang out with them if they won't sleep with me? If they are cool then the desire to sleep with them will only intensify the more I hang out with them so I am really only torturing myself emotionally to hang out with them and pretend that that is all I want. Why would I or any guy want to put himself through that?
 

Haagrum

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May 3, 2010
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IMO, the whole concept of the "Friend Zone" is built on guys protecting their egos (which are, despite any pretensions to the contrary, generally vulnerable and easily punctured). No-one likes to hear that the object of their desires (male or female) is not interested in pursuing a relationship with them. Most people know this and are too polite to stomp on your feelings directly, so they let you down gently... which only hurts you more if you decide to see what you want to see, instead of what's actually there.

Sometimes, the "Friend Zone" thing is really a cover for someone's own insecurities - because, "if I'm friend-zoned, then there's no point in making an approach, because she sees me as a friend rather than a potential lover." See that for what it is - an exercise in self-delusion and self-justification. It only hurts the person who thinks that way - although it has the potential to get creepy - and it poisons them from the inside over time (until they get over it or find someone else to have a crush on).

Two people can be attracted to each other and have it not go further for a whole bunch of reasons. Timing is exceptionally important. That would not be a case where the "Friend Zone" idea would apply. That would just be bad luck, not the "Friend Zone". Most of us will have been there at least once or twice.

Similarly, one person can be attracted to another, who finds them to be good company but not a person they're romantically interested in. That's only "Friend Zone" territory if that first person refuses to take "Let's be friends" as meaning "I don't want a romantic relationship with you but I still like you as a person". There are far better ways of dealing with gentle rejection than by stringing out your self-induced pain because you're hanging onto a traitorous sliver of misplaced hope for the future.

In short - if a woman tells you she just wants to be friends, take it as read. Be a man, take it at face value, and deal with it. If you actually respected and cared about her, you'd accept that this was her position, rather than trying to rationalise your way around it into "maybe there's still a chance!" On top of that, you'd also be assuming she was telling you the truth - if that's not the case, it's really up to her to correct that impression.
 

Tharwen

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May 7, 2009
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I think it's just an excuse. What it means is that a person has been rejected by the only girl he knows and doesn't know how to move on because he doesn't know any other girls well enough.

I try so hard to avoid this situation... I think I've managed, but it's really easy to imagine that it's somehow not my fault.
 

Sentox6

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Uriel-238 said:
Um, guys, the Ladder Theory may work for the 100 IQ club (though it's terribly misogynistic), but it doesn't work for anyone that has a modicum of self awareness.
The 100 IQ club has quite a sizeable membership, you know.

I know that during the mating years (that is from puberty to the early thirties) it might be difficult to think past getting laid, but raw experience has taught me that after the two of you get each other off, your going to want to actually be able to relate.
All this really indicates is an adjustment to the rating systems based upon age (and perhaps IQ, by your assertion). It doesn't necessarily refute the core concept of the theory.

And the Ladder Theory doesn't explain athletes, artists and rockstars, most of whom are broke and get a groupie following anyway.
Sure it does. They inherently come under the same category as the outlaw biker: men with novelty and/or power.

What does uranium have to do with anything, pray tell? :p

No doubt Ladder Theory is quite hyperbolic in nature and suffers from a case of reductio ad absurdum. That being said, I've found the core concept of the female dual ladder and singular male ladder to be a very convincing explanation of behaviour (based solely on casual empiricism).

Addendum: Just because the forum has formatting codes doesn't mean you have to use them quite so gratuitously. Less is more.
 

Myf

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Jan 12, 2011
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As a girl hangin out with mostly dudes this sux when it happens, better to be open with your darn feelings from the start than to pop the question months and months later. I hate hurting friends and I feel like sucha tease/slutt when I have to explain that i dont feel the same.

If it doesn't click or summon butterflies in my tummy the first day, then it aint gonna happen :)

I tried my hardest to date a friend once and it didn't end well... Frankly I panicked!