Feminism: has it gone to far?

[CloakedOne]

You don't really have any support for your ideas based on your initial post (I never looked any farther), but I would have to disagree. I don't think they are trying to become better than men. Feminists today are trying to make sure that we don't fall back into old habits (not to mention the fact that man male-centric practices are still taking place today). Feminists are quite necessary today and it's still about equality. The way you perceive feminists is not at all how they are. I have studied feminism quite thoroughly in the realm that it primarily exists now: an academic realm of theory and analysis. Extreme feminists are just like extreme religious zealots in that they are few and far between. We should not be so hasty as to lump all of us in the same group.

 

[mr_rubino]

Would I get mod-powned if I made a joke concerning a... recurring but semi-standardized point in time at which a certain gender is stereotypically believed to go into a heightened emotional state that has been comically-represented as something akin to demented insanity?
And the intriguing irony of the situation as it stands here?

Also, derelix, I hope you're happy. Whatshisname just wanted people's views on his question, and now this thread's probably gonna vanish because of you.

not happy, but somebody is I'm sure.
Don't feel bad for him, this was a flame war baiting thread from the beginning. I could teach him more about life than any of these delusional fucks can. It's not fair. It's not supposed to be fair, so stop trying to play fair.
Anybody who tries to play "fair" in this world is trying to win a footrace using just their hands. I admire the courage, but it's just stupid and your going to lose.

So much for all that "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps" stuff, I guess. Easier to sit and complain about your inability to utilize grace-given privilege, thus... disproving its existence. Yeah thanks, but I think I'll let someone else teach me of their life experiences.

But seriously, I need to know what country Indian, black, and Asian women are the dominant species in. That can't be let slip away.

I have a feeling that last comment was a really good joke that I didn't get.

Now that I think about it, "perhaps".

 

[Mimssy]

You don't really have any support for your ideas based on your initial post (I never looked any farther), but I would have to disagree. I don't think they are trying to become better than men. Feminists today are trying to make sure that we don't fall back into old habits (not to mention the fact that man male-centric practices are still taking place today). Feminists are quite necessary today and it's still about equality. The way you perceive feminists is not at all how they are. I have studied feminism quite thoroughly in the realm that it primarily exists now: an academic realm of theory and analysis. Extreme feminists are just like extreme religious zealots in that they are few and far between. We should not be so hasty as to lump all of us in the same group.

You get a high-five for being awesome!

 

[Serenegoose]

and do you wonder WHY it is a boy's club? marketing. boys buy games with boobs while a game with a main character with the dick the size of a minivan wouldn't sell as well. money, money, and more money are on the minds of the developers. more boobs and sex? more men and teens buying your product. the reason the game industry is so unappealing to women is also due to the pay. 40k a year isn't that much and it doesn't get that much better even with experience. i seen men take shit all the time when they take care of children, or become hairdressers. ask julianking what happened to his job at the daycare and not get pissed off. saying that being rich is a road less traveled is not arguing straw man. getting rich is almost a fool's errand and only business owners become them. America is mostly workers, not business owners since big name stores decimate entire areas of their small businesses which make up 90% of the businesses in the united states. people don't get rich because of their gender, they get rich because they know how to work a market and know how to wage business warfare.

You're not even reading now. Honestly. I'll repeat it for you.

But no, obviously, the fact that male nurses or hairdressers never ever get a funny look/have their sexuality questioned for taking 'feminine' jobs means there's definitely no sexism going on here at all.

Given that I've been arguing that society is in fact sexist, do you think I'd say "There's definitely no sexism going on here" and mean it? No. There's an acute amount of sexism going on regarding the fact that it is less socially acceptable for men to work in 'womens' jobs because it casts doubt on their masculinity. This means it is NOT generally acceptable for a man to appear feminine, and why is that? Because appearing feminine is worse than appearing masculine. It is shameful to do so. That is sexism at its basest and simplest.

And yes being rich is a road less travelled. It is a road however, travelled by far more men than women. I'll make it really simple for you. This is not saying all men travel this road. That's stupid, and that's what you're telling me I'm saying, not what I'm actually saying which is your strawman.

I've pointed out that as far as the lists go, there's way more rich men than women. You're saying it's got nothing to do with gender, but rather business acumen. So... women by and large are incapable of knowing how the market works? Geee, that doesn't sound remotely sexist at all.

 

[mr_rubino]

Would I get mod-powned if I made a joke concerning a... recurring but semi-standardized point in time at which a certain gender is stereotypically believed to go into a heightened emotional state that has been comically-represented as something akin to demented insanity?
And the intriguing irony of the situation as it stands here?

Also, derelix, I hope you're happy. Whatshisname just wanted people's views on his question, and now this thread's probably gonna vanish because of you.

not happy, but somebody is I'm sure.
Don't feel bad for him, this was a flame war baiting thread from the beginning. I could teach him more about life than any of these delusional fucks can. It's not fair. It's not supposed to be fair, so stop trying to play fair.
Anybody who tries to play "fair" in this world is trying to win a footrace using just their hands. I admire the courage, but it's just stupid and your going to lose.

So much for all that "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps" stuff, I guess. Easier to sit and complain about your inability to utilize grace-given privilege, thus... disproving its existence. Yeah thanks, but I think I'll let someone else teach me of their life experiences.

But seriously, I need to know what country Indian, black, and Asian women are the dominant species in. That can't be let slip away.

I never said that. This is why i had to flip out, idiots keep misquoting me.
I said a RICH (see that word, it says fucking RICH) asian, black, mexican, jew, whatever, has more power than a broke white man. A rich white man has more power than a poor asian. That's america.
Grace given privilege? I was labeled as trash from the start. I have no "privilege" and anything I get I have to get myself. Don't you talk to me like you fucking know me, you don't know anything about me.

Lot of those rich Indian chicks running around in your country. ...I was right. It's Indonesia, right?

I was labeled as trash from the start.

I was labeled as trash from the start.

I was labeled as trash from the start.

Oh my...

 

[Ericb]

Would I get mod-powned if I made a joke concerning a... recurring but semi-standardized point in time at which a certain gender is stereotypically believed to go into a heightened emotional state that has been comically-represented as something akin to demented insanity?

Not if you phrase it with such fine Sesquipedalian Loquaciousness [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SesquipedalianLoquaciousness].

You don't really have any support for your ideas based on your initial post (I never looked any farther), but I would have to disagree. I don't think they are trying to become better than men. Feminists today are trying to make sure that we don't fall back into old habits (not to mention the fact that man male-centric practices are still taking place today). Feminists are quite necessary today and it's still about equality. The way you perceive feminists is not at all how they are. I have studied feminism quite thoroughly in the realm that it primarily exists now: an academic realm of theory and analysis. Extreme feminists are just like extreme religious zealots in that they are few and far between. We should not be so hasty as to lump all of us in the same group.

You get a high-five for being awesome!

It deserves a high ten.

 

[Cliff_m85]

Feminism fails because it isn't as hilarious as sexism.

 

[mr_rubino]

...Myanmar?

EDIT: Um...could you at least give me a hint?
It was a pretty straightforward statement. Women like her assume all female characters are made for men and that all male characters are made for men. My point was, that's crazy. What's made for women? Annoying vampires that sparkle in sunlight?

Yyyyep. Basically.
Kratos and Leon and whateveryousaid certainly aren't made for women. And Boobie Booberman with the camera up her ass isn't. I suppose you could argue Snake might be what with his shameless bisexuality and perfectly-toned ass in a tight catsuit, but...
(Everyone's gay for Big Boss, after all. Just ask Kaz Miller.)

 

[Serenegoose]

bullshit. Female protags are almost always saving the world and dealing with the idiotic men she's surrounded by. your speaking in cliches, its obvious you haven't played a game from this generation.
BTW, why is it a guys game if it's a female Protag but a guys game if its a guy protag too? Is it really so crazy to think that a female could find such male characters attractive too? TRY TO FUCKING THINK FOR A SECOND!

You mean like the Master Chief, Link, Gordon Freeman, Marcus Fenix, Nate Drake, Geralt, Jack Ryan, Agent 47, Jim Raynor, Dante, Ezio, Isaac Clarke, Niko Bellic, Riddick, Starkiller...

You mean all those female protagonists?

Wait, you were talking about Samus (and don't talk to me about her until I've had time to forgive her for that last outing) or Alyx (not a protagonist) or Zoey?

Or were you talking about

Spoiler: Sophitia

or

Spoiler: Bayonetta

Simple fact is: Barring a few rare examples, male protagonists have their heroic actions played up over their physiques. Female characters might get a personality, but they sure as hell have looks.

 

[Mimssy]

It deserves a high ten.

Can we work in a group hug as well?

 

[mr_rubino]

Ah, Bayonetta. The designer was so happy about her 5 feet of legs, he bragged to all he could see how hot she was. Oh Japan.

 

[mr_rubino]

...Myanmar?

Well...clearly. My mistake.
And, guess I'm wasting my time here, but what the hell does that mean?
"It's not enough that you come to my country, you don't even have the respect to learn the damn language! Do you know how much we send to korea every year? I'll have to look it up but I'm sure it's a lot!"

Erm ...Bangladesh? I think you've lost me.

...Myanmar?

EDIT: Um...could you at least give me a hint?
It was a pretty straightforward statement. Women like her assume all female characters are made for men and that all male characters are made for men. My point was, that's crazy. What's made for women? Annoying vampires that sparkle in sunlight?

Yyyyep. Basically.
Kratos and Leon and whateveryousaid certainly aren't made for women. And Boobie Booberman with the camera up her ass isn't. I suppose you could argue Snake might be what with his shameless bisexuality and perfectly-toned ass in a tight catsuit, but...
(Everyone's gay for Big Boss, after all. Just ask Kaz Miller.)

Certainly my ass, leon (re 4 leon) is a pretty boy...not that I'm into that kind of thing or anything.

*snicker* Sure, bubby. In other news, beat RE5 and Chris's gal-pal Sheva can wear a Queen of the Jungle get-up which I assure you is as not-sexist as it is not-racist. Then again with how bad her AI is, you'll spend too much time running FROM her to admire the... decoration.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

Whether or not it's gone to far depends on the feminist in question. The "Both sexes should be treated equally" kind of feminists are fine; the "Women are the superior race! Everything with a penis must be castrated and crucified! We don't need a filthy, inferior man to continue the human race; we'll just grow babies on farms!" kind are kinda fucking insane.

Pretty much this. Gender equality is fine, bat-shit insane "We're going to kill you" is bad.

 

[mr_rubino]

*sigh* Samus, what is so horrible about her last "outing" oh wait, because she didn't wear bulky armor she is no longer a strong woman. My mistake.

That ain't the least of it why she ain't a strong woman anymore. Ho-ho-ho-boy.

 

[Labyrinth]

What it comes down to is not what it means to be female, but what it means to be male. "Man" needs to be redefined for this whole thing to work. The masculine needs to include taking up housework and childrearing, all those typically feminine, and unpaid might I add, jobs. I think we also need to stop devaluing the role that home parenting and housework have, whoever does them.

Damn right. It takes stamina and focus to do housework!

Sadly, I witnessed a woman despise the idea of a man taking care of the house and family. She open heartedly declared herself "machist" in that respect, which made me like her a lot less.

I once read an article in which a woman decried her job as a high-flying business executive while her husband was a home dad because it made her feel 'like a man'. In this way, I'd say it's the general female approach to masculinity which needs to change just as much, in the same way as it's not only women who need to see themselves as more than someone who must be a mother/housewife.

 

[Drummah]

As a chick, I have to say that instead of bitching loudly about respect, just walk the walk. Act as if you'd like more respect. Be someone worth respecting.

 

[Serenegoose]

*sigh* Samus, what is so horrible about her last "outing" oh wait, because she didn't wear bulky armor she is no longer a strong woman. My mistake.

No, it's horrible because they destroyed the character, by making her a meek little self doubting submissive woman who turns into a child when threatened by a space monster she has already killed FOUR TIMES and won't use her armour until commander manny mannington gives her permission!

The fact is, I could waste my time listing female protagonists but you will just look at the list of games you have never played and tell me they are all sex objects. By that same logic, I can call most of the characters you listed as sex objects. THATS HOW THE FUCKING MEDIA WORKS, GET A FUCKING GRIP.

Yeah, master chief, man of mystery, total hunk. Gordon Freeman? What a dreamboat. Isaac clarke? Hallucinations and being batshit turn me on so. Marcus Fenix? I can't get enough of those steroidy, steroidy abs. Niko Bellic can run me over any time, with his impoverished eastern european charm.

Eh, sure, some of them are supposed to be hot, like Dante, but all of them? If they're hot, it's just another aspect of their design. Most often with female characters, that's what they get in PLACE of a personality.

 

[LorChan]

Feminism hasn't done all it's set out to do - women are still, generally, treated quite poorly compared to men. Male to Female sex change patients sometimes have to go through therapy to cope with being treated that way, because they aren't used to it.
In my opinion, the truest form of feminism is the whole 'sexual revolution' thing. Women became in control of their own bodies, and CHOSE to be sexual. These days the general idea is that any woman who acts in that way is seen as a whore, allowing herself to be seen as an object by men or some shit - it amazes me how actual women can be unaware of the fact that sex is good for us, too.

 

[mr_rubino]

...Myanmar?

Well...clearly. My mistake.
And, guess I'm wasting my time here, but what the hell does that mean?
"It's not enough that you come to my country, you don't even have the respect to learn the damn language! Do you know how much we send to korea every year? I'll have to look it up but I'm sure it's a lot!"

Erm ...Bangladesh? I think you've lost me.

...Myanmar?

EDIT: Um...could you at least give me a hint?
It was a pretty straightforward statement. Women like her assume all female characters are made for men and that all male characters are made for men. My point was, that's crazy. What's made for women? Annoying vampires that sparkle in sunlight?

Yyyyep. Basically.
Kratos and Leon and whateveryousaid certainly aren't made for women. And Boobie Booberman with the camera up her ass isn't. I suppose you could argue Snake might be what with his shameless bisexuality and perfectly-toned ass in a tight catsuit, but...
(Everyone's gay for Big Boss, after all. Just ask Kaz Miller.)

Certainly my ass, leon (re 4 leon) is a pretty boy...not that I'm into that kind of thing or anything.

*snicker* Sure, bubby. In other news, beat RE5 and Chris's gal-pal Sheva can wear a Queen of the Jungle get-up which I assure you is as not-sexist as it is not-racist.

It's idiotic, and the whole game is filled with Isms. Did I say RE5, because I'm pretty sure I was talking about the one where you look at leons ass most of the time (or was that just me?) regardless the camera was pointed there.

Yeah sure, but when you can unlock a stupid outfit for a male it's not called sexism. Fact is, a male does not look like chris. Shiva was a huge annoying stereotype but so was Chris. The african female is an acrobat with a sassy attitude and the american male is a bulky steroid junky who constantly states the obvious and always acts slightly dumber than shiva.
Last line for shiva, I shit you not "this is for my fallen ancestors" WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING?
Spear throwing, grass skirt wearing african zombies exluded, and it's still a pretty stupid game. If it took place in japan, all the zombies would probably wear business suits and do math to confuse you.

As usual, you're doing my job for me, and it's kinda annoying. But of course, you can't unlock Swimsuit Chris or Stripper Leon, so I don't have to waste a paragraph on that, and thank God for that. And of course the camera was pointed at his back as default, especially during important button-mashing scenes.

Next point: It was for her fallen ancestors. Duh. But of course Chris is the manly man while Sheva has to "prove her worth". (Luckily, the special edition removed her for Chris's bubbly suddenly-blonde love interest... oh and ex-main character. *Snicker* Remember when she had that game to her own and wore a halter the whole time?). Again, this has been pointed out to you multiple times, and you're not gonna understand it if people keep repeating it to you.

Third non sequitur: The zombies probably wouldn't be dressed in kimonos in paper houses.

 

[mr_rubino]

As a chick, I have to say that instead of bitching loudly about respect, just walk the walk. Act as if you'd like more respect. Be someone worth respecting.

exactly. i see women who screw strangers in a alley or bathroom. if you throw yourself at someone with no respect for yourself or body, why should anyone respect you? i also see women who are not the sharpest knife in the bunch and expect to be treaty seriously when they say "like" at the end of every sentence, and mistake their period for homosexuality and say "i am gay'ing out!" when the time of the month comes. respect isn't asked for, its earned. feminists need to work on the womens' side of things since that's whats holding them back.

You're seriously off-your-tits-nuts. You know that?