Feminist Frequency needs a fact check?

[Ragsnstitches]

his isn't a topic on Ageism, but even at that an Elderly person would have the competency and self-awareness to see the bullshit advertisements regurgitate on us daily.
A small child wouldn't. A little boy or little girl would only understand what they are told and will only emulate what they see. Kids don't forge their own identities until their teens, of which is heavily influenced by their pre-teens.
If you don't see what's wrong with that, then I'm not going to play teacher and pander to your ignorance.

So basically, to summarize your post "Yes, I admit advertising doesn't indoctrinate kids, so I'll evade that, wave a general unrelated fact in face, and insult you for offending my feminist religion".

Well, it's not particularly constructive, but I apreciate you admitting that criticising advertisements for sexism is ridiculous.

I made a juxtaposition from your tangental response of inferring the issues facing an elderly man are similar to the issues facing kids.

An Elderly man does not look at an ad the same way a kid does. He has experience, self-awareness and (hopefully at that stage) an identity they have created for themselves. If that includes boxing they aren't going to take the ad that shows herculean bodybuilders ingesting buckets of protein, as anything other then a stupid advertisement. The only information he would want is "Name of product" and "how much".

A kid? A kid is different. A kid is impressionable. When a little girl (say shes 9 or 10) sees other girls playing with dolls, makebelieve baking, accessorising or roleplaying as a caterer, while an adult is telling them how awesome it is and how great these people are for doing this, "aren't they cool and hip, isn't it cute and adorable, don't you want to be just like these girls here?". She certainly does.

When that girl looks at a boys ad? They see a boy playing with an army or shooting guns and they are all shouting and fist pumping... but there are no girls shouting or fist pumping, in fact there are no girls in the ad at all (and usually if they are, they are scoffing at the boys stupid brainless antics... silly girls, they will never understand).

The Man who is telling these boys how badass they are is saying things like "your friends will be in awe" while a bunch of boys look on and exclaim "oh wow, that's so cool"... but no girl is saying that, only boys. Then the announce talks directly to the boy on screen (and at this stage only boys are in audience) and says "you can be the hero". Then they do something that gets the girls from earlier all frustrated and have a jolly ol' laugh. The Girl watching the ad is not impressed.

You can swap out the girl for a boy and reverse the impact the ads have. Same, though diametrically opposite effect... the boy feels uncomfortable with all the girls having fun with girl stuff, while the Female adult is saying words like "cute" while show them cuddling dolls.

Meanwhile in the boys centred ad, the boy see's all these kids (all boys, usually older then him) having a blast. The narrator is reinforcing this idea by telling the viewer that the kid who has this product is an awesome hero and will be the centre of attention around his male friends. He then watches a couple of girls scoffing at the boys fun (stupid girls), but feels good when the boys play the final prank on the girl.

Boy then sees the product next time they are in a shop and begs his mom/dad to get it for him.

 

[him over there]

You quoted the wrong person, that was my post.

We'll take this one step by step.

Tell me, as a young boy would you buy lego Friends if you saw this:
-snipped video-

If not, why wouldn't you buy it. Use specific reasons from the ad to explain what put you off.

If you do, tell us what it was that made you feel apart of this experience, what aspect resonated with you or made you desirable for the product.

My bad, must have made that error when clipping out the other quotes(I hate having quotes within quotes).

Point taken though, I can't honestly say that I'd see that an anything other than a girl's toy. Still though, A lot of the Lego sets are based off of movies which are popular amongst both genders and I stand by my statement that there really isn't anything exclusively male about Lego city.

The thing is, almost all "girl" toys are like this; try going to a Toys R Us and visit the girls section, almost everything in there is pastel coloured (mostly pink), and has an emphasis on either pets, princesses or house role playing (cooking, baby care etc). Is it any fault of Lego as a brand that almost everything without these qualities is automatically considered a "boy's" toy? I'll say it again, it's "Lego city" not " Lego Brofist robbers construction and action extreme town", just gender-neutral "Lego city".

I think 'femfrequency' would have been better off discussing the toy industry as a whole rather than attacking Lego specifically.


Oh, and just to prove a point, here are some things I enjoyed as a young boy

Spoiler

all things which I enjoyed despite their cutesy, girlish themes.

Of all the things you posted Kirby is one I disagree with, it was pretty gender neutral, especially since the general consensus is that Kirby himself is a male. The only thing "girly" about it is the fact that he's pink, which is hardly a gender defining trait in that context. Kirby was more kiddy than anything else. he's also fucking awesome.

As for this whole thing? I checked out a few of her videos, I really didn't see anything overtly Feminist about them at all. All she really did was point out that gender roles exist and that corporations and media are willing to continue them for the sake of selling something. I think that all of these things have a right to exist, even though something like the Friends line exists to appeal to girls nothing is stopping them from a Bionicle or whatever. I think things that cater to a specific gender are fine, not everything has to be gender neutral. The problem is with the culture not the products, instead of saying that everything must be gender neutral simply allow boys to buy the girl products and girls to buy the boy products.

 

[Eynimeb]

First of all, the LEGO company will cater to whatever demographic it thinks it can get money from. If they appear to be catering to boys, that's only because they think boys will be more interested, not because they don't want to sell to girls. There is no sexism, only marketing. It's quite possible they are shooting themselves in the plastic feet by not including enough female minifigures in their sets, but I have no figures or studies of any sort to prove or disprove that.

Second, as someone whose LEGO collection is in the process of overrunning his small appartment, I am qualified to say: why *not* have a 1:1 gender ratio? Unless the vast majority of minifigures are gay, that's going to be one miserable LEGO city you're building... (Might explain the LEGO wars though.)

Thirdly, and most importantly, the restrictive mold of gender stereotypes, which is the undisputed big bad here, as far as I can see, needs to be broken on a personal level first. Big, sluggish organisations are probably always going to be lagging behind social developments, either because they aren't catching on fast enough, or because they prefer playing things safe. If parents want their children to not be restricted by gender roles, they simply need to expose them to toys normally seen as girlish, as well as toys considered boyish, and let them make their own choices, teaching them that it's alright to play with whatever they like. So long as parents aren't doing *that*, there isn't a darned thing the LEGO company can do.

Fourth, I am going to show off my lego spaceship, because that's what LEGO enthusiasts do.
http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=5087000

 

[Meight08]

Fuck that is almost as bad as feminists getting mad at the word history because it is spelled
His-Story.

 

[him over there]

Fuck that is almost as bad as feminists getting mad at the word history because it is spelled
His-Story.

You're making that up, you must be.

 

[Soxafloppin]

Christ, this website needs a Femism/sexism forum.....

 

[Meight08]

Fuck that is almost as bad as feminists getting mad at the word history because it is spelled
His-Story.

You're making that up, you must be.

Nope some feminists say her-story instead of history.
Wish i was kidding.

 

[him over there]

Fuck that is almost as bad as feminists getting mad at the word history because it is spelled
His-Story.

You're making that up, you must be.

Nope some feminists say her-story instead of history.
Wish i was kidding.

That is both minute and silly and I refuse to believe anybody could think the pronunciation of a word is something in dire need of changing for the sake of equality. Hell I'd never even noticed that about the word history.

 

[Meight08]

Fuck that is almost as bad as feminists getting mad at the word history because it is spelled
His-Story.

You're making that up, you must be.

Nope some feminists say her-story instead of history.
Wish i was kidding.

That is both minute and silly and I refuse to believe anybody could think the pronunciation of a word is something in dire need of changing for the sake of equality. Hell I'd never even noticed that about the word history.

Ask some hardcore feminist what they think about the word history and lose a few brain cells.

 

[manic_depressive13]

I find her exceedingly reasonable and well spoken, and she always provides evidence for the claims she makes. She has never said that men are evil. She is merely trying to make people aware of the very real gender stereotypes that are reinforced in our media, often with the result of marginalising women. I didn't think she said anything fallacious or unreasonable in either of her two videos about lego. The gender disparity in the way lego is marketed is fucking disgusting, and I can't understand how anyone could possibly see the recent ads and not agree unless they are simply being perverse. This isn't an issue just with lego. This is a ubiquitous issue throughout all advertising to children. She chose to focus on lego because she loves lego, and because there was a time when lego's marketing was done fairly and can be starkly juxtaposed with the way things are done today.

 

[manic_depressive13]

Nope some feminists say her-story instead of history.
Wish i was kidding.

Yeah, they're almost as pathetic as the people who insist the word "feminist" should be changed to "equalist" except not nearly as common.

The "her-story" thing is a pun that points out the very real fact that history is male-centric simply because women did not have many opportunities to actually excel in the past. NO ONE thinks the word "history" should be changed.

 

[geK0]

Of all the things you posted Kirby is one I disagree with, it was pretty gender neutral, especially since the general consensus is that Kirby himself is a male. The only thing "girly" about it is the fact that he's pink, which is hardly a gender defining trait in that context. Kirby was more kiddy than anything else. he's also fucking awesome.

As for this whole thing? I checked out a few of her videos, I really didn't see anything overtly Feminist about them at all. All she really did was point out that gender roles exist and that corporations and media are willing to continue them for the sake of selling something. I think that all of these things have a right to exist, even though something like the Friends line exists to appeal to girls nothing is stopping them from a Bionicle or whatever. I think things that cater to a specific gender are fine, not everything has to be gender neutral. The problem is with the culture not the products, instead of saying that everything must be gender neutral simply allow boys to buy the girl products and girls to buy the boy products.

I wasn't going to add Kirby the list, but I have had to defend Kirby often enough from friends saying Kirby was for girls that it didn't feel so out of place in that list. Everything about the Kirby universe aside from a few enemies is pretty cutesy and faerie-like after all; that doesn't mean I don't love it, I've loved Kirby since I was four.
And Kirby is a guy? I always thought Kirby was genderless : \

 

[him over there]

all things which I enjoyed despite their cutesy, girlish themes.

Of all the things you posted Kirby is one I disagree with, it was pretty gender neutral, especially since the general consensus is that Kirby himself is a male. The only thing "girly" about it is the fact that he's pink, which is hardly a gender defining trait in that context. Kirby was more kiddy than anything else. he's also fucking awesome.

As for this whole thing? I checked out a few of her videos, I really didn't see anything overtly Feminist about them at all. All she really did was point out that gender roles exist and that corporations and media are willing to continue them for the sake of selling something. I think that all of these things have a right to exist, even though something like the Friends line exists to appeal to girls nothing is stopping them from a Bionicle or whatever. I think things that cater to a specific gender are fine, not everything has to be gender neutral. The problem is with the culture not the products, instead of saying that everything must be gender neutral simply allow boys to buy the girl products and girls to buy the boy products.

I wasn't going to add Kirby the list, but I have had to defend Kirby often enough from friends saying Kirby was for girls that it didn't feel so out of place in that list. Everything about the Kirby universe aside from a few enemies is pretty cutesy and faerie-like after all; that doesn't mean I don't love it, I've loved Kirby since I was four.
And Kirby is a guy? I always thought Kirby was genderless : \

He isn't officially, but that's what the general consensus seems to be. I've had quite a different experience with the pink blob though. I've had to justify liking him based on age not gender. The little guy is still pretty great though.

 

[uneek]

I think we all agree that while she makes many mistakes, she's still a fair blogger with a noble cause. That fact that she's asking for money might sound suspicious, but if you've already made up your mind about her, why should it matter? If you don't support her, don't give her any money. That's it.

 

[Denamic]

I think we all agree that while she makes many mistakes, she's still a fair blogger with a noble cause. That fact that she's asking for money might sound suspicious, but if you've already made up your mind about her, why should it matter? If you don't support her, don't give her any money. That's it.

Noble cause?
In intent, sure.
However, her videos are fraught with confirmation bias, finding issues where there really are none.
She's also polarising while preaching to her choir.

The end result is that she delivers a flawed message to people who already agree with her, while making people who disagree with her angry.
I cannot call that very noble.

 

[Ultrajoe]

I think we all agree that while she makes many mistakes, she's still a fair blogger with a noble cause. That fact that she's asking for money might sound suspicious, but if you've already made up your mind about her, why should it matter? If you don't support her, don't give her any money. That's it.

Just a point that needs making: Research costs money. She needs to pay editors, to eat and pay rent while she's doing it, pay for travel costs and to buy the products she's going to be working with. At least. Labor hours cost money, they need paying for. It's a miracle she only asked for $6000!

People say things like 'She has all the equipment, why is she asking for money?', but they've all, surely, heard of the concept of a research grant. That's what this is, a research grant, granted by interested members of the public. I know everyone is getting all worked up over the gender issues side of things, but this represents a brand new avenue for research projects that otherwise would never survive the cut-throat world of funding allocation.

So yeah, the take home point is this; Research always costs money, always, that's why scientists are always wailing about funding.

 

[jackpackage200]

Christ, this website needs a Femism/sexism forum.....

Oh my god yes. YES, YES, YES, YES. These topics get old after awhile. I am not saying that sexism is not an issue. But could we perhaps at least wait a week before a new one. I enjoy pwning misogynists as much as the next person but the number of threads on the subject is staggering.

 

[Torrasque]

Issues like job equality, same pay rate and the like? No, fuck that, lets have a bash at little plastic bricks you make things with. That is clearly a huge issue.

Guise, problem A exists so we have to ignore problem B until we've fixed problem A. There's absolutely no possible way we could identify and propose solutions to both problems. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dichotomy]

EDIT: also, discussing feminism on Off-Topic?

I give it five posts before we're overrun by people who got lost on the way to r/mensrights.

I mentally add a post like this to just about every kind of thread that is potentially controversial. It makes said post easier to notice, lol.

I am annoyed when people create issues where there should be no issues. Growing up, I never gave a damn about the genders of the legomen legopeople. They were just lego people. I usually dressed them up in armour and badass helmets anyways, so I could never tell. Pretty sure my favorite guy person (fuck this is annoying...) was a pure black guy just because I thought he was badass? OH FUCK. I JUST ADDED RACISM TO LEGO. AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Captcha: morning person.
LOL. I am not a morning person by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[uneek]

I think we all agree that while she makes many mistakes, she's still a fair blogger with a noble cause. That fact that she's asking for money might sound suspicious, but if you've already made up your mind about her, why should it matter? If you don't support her, don't give her any money. That's it.

Noble cause?
In intent, sure.
However, her videos are fraught with confirmation bias, finding issues where there really are none.
She's also polarising while preaching to her choir.

The end result is that she delivers a flawed message to people who already agree with her, while making people who disagree with her angry.
I cannot call that very noble.

Well, she's not doing it on purpose.