Feminists, we need to talk about fedoras

[MrMan999]

The whole fedora thing comes from a misguided attempt by socially inexperienced geeks and nerds to look "cool" and "classy". When people started making fun of how silly it looked, it quickly became associated with (insert fandom or movement you don't like here). I've seen "fedora wearers" associated with bronies, feminists, MRAs, you name it.

As for the feminism discussion that is also present in the thread, like any movement, you will get the extremely loud extremists. I've met all different types of feminists including the extremists in my college days. Most were alright, some were not. One of the more extreme ones tried to get the gaming club expelled for playing Dead or Alive 4 in the student lounge. But to blanket all feminists as the extremists is just ignorant. That said the extreme ones are annoying.

 

[generals3]

Isn't it great how once a problem affects men it has to be dealt with immediately?

Yeah, you shouldn't judge people based on their appearances. But you know who gets judged based on their appearances like clockwork but are widely ignored?

Muslims (terrorist)
Black people (gangster/criminal)
Women (slut/*****/take your pick)
Transexuals (man in a dress/gay cross-dresser)

These people tolerate these things because they're subjected to it all the time; it would be exhausting to fight back every single time, to the point that many people have gotten so used to it that it just seems like normal behaviour (which is what happens with sexism quite a bit).

Euhm, no, these things are not tolerated. At most the transexual issue is being totally ignored due to the extremely low population.

And you'll find a lot more attention given to those problems than problems that affect men. Have you seen "fedora walks" protests? Anti-descrimination legislation being toughened because of discrimination against men? etc.? Because i sure haven't.

But than someone makes one topic on a forum about an issue mainly facing men and suddenly it's only men's issues that get attention? Really? That's why men's issues are never going to be properly addressed, because any attention is too much apparently.

But any attempt at this kind of sweeping judgement towards white, straight men is met with immediate rejection.

Wrong. How often do you see protests or legislators trying to fight prejudice towards white people? Over here a judge even managed to twist a blatant anti-white racism case into anti-iranian racism case. Some Muslims insulted an Iranian woman for holding arms with a white man and the media and justice system totally overlooked the fact that the one truly being insulted was the white man for not being worthy of a muslim woman. Imagine someone would insult a white person for going out with a black person. Do you think that would be framed as anti-white racism? Based on historical evidence: no.

 

[The Lunatic]

The whole "Feminist" thing in question tends to be "Tumblr feminism" which is about as much actual feminism as punching somebody over the internet is punching them in real life.

Yes, a bunch of people who play the victim card on tumblr are also terrible enough people to just straight up hate men and mock groups of men who wear certain clothing. You can't really reason with somebody who employs this level of retarded double standards, so, there's not much point in trying.

 

[monkey_man]

I was expecting a dumb thread and boy was I not disappointed.
Seriously, the shaming isn't so much about the hats. It's about the entirety of the neckbeard spectrum associated with them. If you see a well dressed man in a proper suit with a matching hat, nothing is wrong. If you see one of those greasy dorks wearing it, with some fandom shirt then yeah, it's a nuisance. The hat doesn't fit them well or it's just not the thing for them. The snooty "m'lady" behaviour indicates just that. They are unworthy of those hats, but they do not care

 

[MiracleOfSound]

They are unworthy of those hats, but they do not care

So because they're not 'cool' or in a perceived social tier/ruleset they shouldn't wear the clothing they like? That's kind of a bullshit argument. If wearing silly hats makes someone happy/feel comfortable, let them be.

Your post makes you sound like the kinda guy who pushes other kids into lockers because you don't like their emo fringe.

 

[monkey_man]

They are unworthy of those hats, but they do not care

So because they're not 'cool' or in a perceived social tier/ruleset they shouldn't wear the clothing they like? That's kind of a bullshit argument. If wearing silly hats makes someone happy/feel comfortable, let them be.

Your post makes you sound like the kinda guy who pushes other kids into lockers because you don't like their emo fringe.

There's a difference between being not cool, and accepting it, like I do, and being not cool, and trying desperately to act cool. Sophisticated, pretentious snobby pricks. I'm a dork, I proudly wear my fandom shirts, and I often have to explain what they are about. I don't mind, but I don't expect praise or anything. The 'euphoric crowd' is trying to wear something classy and dignified (the hats) but by behaving in a snobby way, ruining the effect and looking like total douchebags.

 

[[Esoteric Reference]]

My hair has a horrible way of sticking in directions I don't want it to go. Regardless of length, style, whatever, even with gel there's a specific spot on my head which just makes it look horrible. My only way of shaping it into a semi-respectable looking form is to throw on a hat in the morning, and hope to god it stays down the rest of the day. So, from probably start of high school, I wore baseball hats for many many years. That was fine, I love baseball, and it served a practical purpose, so everything was fine.

And then I got a job at a corporate type place and started growing older and didn't feel like baseball hats were really an appropriate attire for someone in my position and age any more. So one day, upon purchasing some slacks in a shop, I also picked up a tribbly. I liked the way it looked, I liked the way it looked on me, and I figured I could wear that instead of baseball hats from then on.

But now, some years later, the general view of such a thing is hitting such a negative, that even though I've only had compliments about the hat (not a ton, mind you, just a couple here and there), and despite being told by others both in older age range and younger internet folk that hey, it actually looks good on you, I still am probably going to not bother bringing it to PAX because I don't want the first thought of everyone there who I possibly talk to to be "Hey, look at this fedora wearing neckbeard mofo over there." (even though I don't have a beard, don't wear trenchcoats, don't walk around yelling at everyone about how nice I am, etc).

Anyways, the point is that it's sad that I have to basically stop wearing something that I like because somehow suddenly the public perception is that I'm some giant douchebag if I do. But I guess it's not the first time in history that some article of clothing has had negative perception to go with it.

I dunno man, I wouldn't worry about it. I feel the whole fedora thing is just a symbol of a much larger (and greasier) archetype with a whole lot of identifying factors beyond the fedora. The hat itself is merely an easily recognizable shorthand, but in the absence of the other aspects of the stereotype should be OK. I mean, it doesn't sound like you're an unwashed teenager with no fashion sense, you sound (and probably look) like a regular dude. If the hat looks good, wear it without shame because in my experience, the actual headwear is insignificant compared to peoples judgments based on level of social acuity or hygiene.

Don't let the minority ruin it for you. Wear your sexy hat with pride you sexy fellow.

 

[V8 Ninja]

...Wait, people are shaming other people for wearing fedoras?

I may not be in the "Loop" of social media and such, but seriously; What?!

Is this some controversy-of-the-moment thing? Is this some irrational thought spawned by the internet? Is this some sort of miscommunication-gone-horribly-right accident? Is this some sort of bizarre joke meant to confuse tons of people? Is this some sort of bizarre joke meant to confuse me? What's the importance of a fedora? Is there some sort of importance to fedoras? What's the meaning of a fedora? Is there a secret discovered in the act of wearing fedoras?

What is going on?!

 

[snave]

A large part of it comes from the trend of men wearing a black fedora without a matching suit. It's part of a somewhat anachronistic formal attire set, and in men typically associated with jazz musicians in the present era. To wear a fedora by itself doesn't add '+1 formality' or '+1 prestige' to your look, but rather has the inverse efect, making you appear ratty or dishevelled. The key thing to consider here is that well dressed strangers tend to get taken more seriously than those who are poorly dressed, so a good set of clothes projects a degree of social power and influence whether you like it or not.

Regarding how fedoras have become associated with shallow or poorly thought through opinions, I can only speculate that the fedora worn in isolation has been interpreted as a hollow attempt to latch on to the influence formalwear provides without thinking through the absurdity of effectively wearing 1/3 of a suit.

 

[themilo504]

Its fine if think fedoras are ugly but don?t call a person a loser because of what hats they want to wear, I like fedoras(even if I don?t have one) myself and if you honestly think that makes me less of a person please rethink your life.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

I hold the opinion that in fact you DO want a nice person in your life. The problem is that the people who display the personality traits you SAY you want, doesn't make you feel funny in your Vagina

I'm gonna come right out and say that the reason, ive seen, that this is true is because people who put ALL their energy into "being nice" have ONE thing that prevents women from liking them. They are boring.

Now I dont know you, so hell maybe youre not boring, but imagine going to a party and you talk to a girl for like 40 minutes and she walks away with her friend. All she manages to say about you was "He was nice". Wouldnt that upset you? It should! How about "He was funny" or "He has had some CRAZY adventures" or "That guy has seen the world" or "That guy is so passionate about his hobby or his life goals" or "That guy was one of the greatest men ive ever met". ALL of those things make you unique and interesting!

The douche with a motorcycle (Totes random, no stereotyping here) at least has a hobby, something interesting and tangible to talk about and show a potential partner. They have passion and drive (ehehe puns) for at least ONE thing in their life and they can demonstrate it. The thing is (And im only talking from personal experience) women dont want to date ears. They want to date people. Listening should be a part of who you are but you cant define yourself from it or "try" listening because you think it might "word". Listening is what you do when another human being is talking to you period, it isnt something to "try" or "use". Its an aspect of you that allows you to relate to how another person is feeling. The relate part being the emphasis. A shoulder and an ear are lovely tools but they cant hold someone, they cant tell someone they are wonderful, they cant go skydiving, or visit another country or pick up a hobby or tell a joke. They cant pick up the microphone at rockband, play the DM for a crazy adventure or tell a story about how that one time you were chased by a swarm of bees into a lake.

Advice to people everywhere who think "nice" is going to be an easy out. Its not. Your personality is the clay youve been given to mould and frankly its your responsibility to make it the best damn personality youve never had.

I decided my life would be more fun if i was impulsive and took more risks. Im naturally a little risk averse, but i reasoned i live only the once and regret for my mistakes usually is smaller than regret for my inaction. So i went to my university DND club despite having a LOT of reservations. Now im dating one of the members and we are going swing dancing in a month (never done it, but hell it sounds fun) at an electroswing festival. I'm far from the perfect guy, but ive generally had amazing luck with connecting to wonderful women and if i had to guess its my ability to try stuff and be passionate about things like becoming a doctor, or video games or books and be unashamed of those parts of me. Be willing to totally humiliate yourself for a good story, it will be REALLY funny 6 months down the line, and the suffering pays for a lifetime of having a great story to tell.

This post isnt aimed at you, but generally the nice guy thing needs to be addressed. Anyone can be interesting. You probably ARE interesting. Just show off more body parts than an ear or a shoulder! (Subject to the laws in your country of course) like your mind and your feelings and your goals.

 

[Deadcyde]

[snip

focusing on women's rights and women's rights alone IS THE WHOLE POINT of feminism, now that does cross over with issues that affect men (like rigid gender roles) and there's no reason a man can't call himself a feminist (though that's a whole can of worms)

the thing is no one gives a crap about a social justice issue unless it somehow affects them, women need to speak out for their rights, gays need to speak out for their rights, racial minorities need to speak out for their rights because white males (and often others in other groups) will NOT speak for them and to some extent is unable to speak for them because "they" may not understand what it is to be something different

I always feel when people say "I rather egalitarianism to feminism" I see it as saying "could we all just be equal so you people will stop talking about your issues?"

*sighs* That was the most nonsense thing I've read so far. The spelling alone makes me cringe.

First of all, feminism is supposed to be under the auspices of equal rights for women. That inevitably means to be equal, -all- parties must be taken into account. Simple as that. To not do so means you are not after the ideal of women's equality at all, but women's superiority. That is matriarchy, the very style of thinking that caused feminism to come about in the first place.

Secondly, that's not true at all, anyone who honestly cares about other people cares about social justice for all people. Please stop speaking to other peoples motives, you certainly don't speak for mine. Also, this isn't about speaking for other people, this is about being aware of their issues and how you affect them and vice versa.

Lastly, that is a complete cop out and nonsense. "could we all just be equal so you people will stop talking about your issues?" Fucking really? Are you so blind to think that there's no people who care about more then just themselves and would rather support everyone equally rather then focus on singular issues? *rolls eyes*

 

[Skull Bearer]

It took me a while to understand why the fedora/miniskirt comparison rubbed me the wrong way. How a woman is dressed is often used to excuse sexual violence, with the whole 'asking for it' bullshit. Until someone is punched in the face and 'he was asking for it because of that fedora, your honour' becomes a functional defence, I think we're done here.

 

[Eamar]

It took me a while to understand why the fedora/miniskirt comparison rubbed me the wrong way. How a woman is dressed is often used to excuse sexual violence, with the whole 'asking for it' bullshit. Until someone is punched in the face and 'he was asking for it because of that fedora, your honour' becomes a functional defence, I think we're done here.

Which is why I very deliberately didn't make that comparison or bring those extremes into it. Yes, clothing is sometimes used ridiculously in rape cases, but it's also used to judge people in less extreme (but still unfair) ways such as the ones I raised in the OP. I'm not comparing rape/sexual violence with being judged as a fedora wearer at all, I'm saying that it's never ok to think you know anything about a person's beliefs or attitudes towards other people based on what they're wearing.

 

[OuroborosChoked]

They are unworthy of those hats, but they do not care

So because they're not 'cool' or in a perceived social tier/ruleset they shouldn't wear the clothing they like? That's kind of a bullshit argument. If wearing silly hats makes someone happy/feel comfortable, let them be.

Your post makes you sound like the kinda guy who pushes other kids into lockers because you don't like their emo fringe.

There's a difference between being not cool, and accepting it, like I do, and being not cool, and trying desperately to act cool. Sophisticated, pretentious snobby pricks. I'm a dork, I proudly wear my fandom shirts, and I often have to explain what they are about. I don't mind, but I don't expect praise or anything. The 'euphoric crowd' is trying to wear something classy and dignified (the hats) but by behaving in a snobby way, ruining the effect and looking like total douchebags.

Did you really miss the point of this ENTIRE thread?

People who assume the intention, identity, and beliefs of others because of a hat are the only douchebags in this scenario. You're assuming things about the character of all fedora wearers and attacking them because of your assumption. You're being a bully.

Quit it.

Or perhaps you'd enjoy it if your particular fandom was branded as a bunch of sexist, racist, homophobic, social rejects. But I guess it's only acceptable behavior when it happens to others, and you can join in the fun of ridiculing and belittling others, isn't it?

 

[monkey_man]

They are unworthy of those hats, but they do not care

So because they're not 'cool' or in a perceived social tier/ruleset they shouldn't wear the clothing they like? That's kind of a bullshit argument. If wearing silly hats makes someone happy/feel comfortable, let them be.

Your post makes you sound like the kinda guy who pushes other kids into lockers because you don't like their emo fringe.

There's a difference between being not cool, and accepting it, like I do, and being not cool, and trying desperately to act cool. Sophisticated, pretentious snobby pricks. I'm a dork, I proudly wear my fandom shirts, and I often have to explain what they are about. I don't mind, but I don't expect praise or anything. The 'euphoric crowd' is trying to wear something classy and dignified (the hats) but by behaving in a snobby way, ruining the effect and looking like total douchebags.

Did you really miss the point of this ENTIRE thread?

People who assume the intention, identity, and beliefs of others because of a hat are the only douchebags in this scenario. You're assuming things about the character of all fedora wearers and attacking them because of your assumption. You're being a bully.

Quit it.

Or perhaps you'd enjoy it if your particular fandom was branded as a bunch of sexist, racist, homophobic, social rejects. But I guess it's only acceptable behavior when it happens to others, and you can join in the fun of ridiculing and belittling others, isn't it?

I'm a social reject and I'm ok with that. have been for the past 10 years or so. Point is, stereotypes are here for a reason,because there's a small point of truth to it. I rarely talk to people outside my comfort zone, and if you look like a douchebag, with or without a fedora, you can be saint Jesus mcAwesometon, and I wouldn't care. Appearances matter. Besides, if you want to wear a big boy hat, you should have the cahones to take insults as a big boy. If you can't handle being a social reject, don't try to elevate yourself to a different standard of "sophistication"

 

[Vault101]

First of all, feminism is supposed to be under the auspices of equal rights for women. That inevitably means to be equal, -all- parties must be taken into account. Simple as that.

thats like saying if youre a publisher you are obligated to publish ALL genres even if your publishing house is called "sci fi books". That doesn't mean you think less of other genres or want to suplant them completly, but its not your focus. Feminism does ackowlegde issues that effect men, such as rape NOT being ok/funny when it happens to men, gender roles that are harmful to men too ect. Theres also the race thing...black women are by far more marginalised than white women. I am not an expert on feminism, if you want a more detailed veiw ask somone here who knows what they are talking about


[quote/]To not do so means you are not after the ideal of women's equality at all, but women's superiority. That is matriarchy, the very style of thinking that caused feminism to come about in the first place.[/quote]

what caused feminism was women realising they lived in a world that left them at a terrible disadvantage, if they hadn't had spoken out and ruffled the feathers of the establishment then they would have never gotten things like the vote.

[quote/]Secondly, that's not true at all, anyone who honestly cares about other people cares about social justice for all people. Please stop speaking to other peoples motives, you certainly don't speak for mine. Also, this isn't about speaking for other people, [b/]this is about being aware of their issues and how you affect them and vice versa.[/b][/quote]

welll...yeah I never denied that, but the thing is...no one makes their political and socialogical veiws in a vacum, we are affect by ourselves and our surroundings, no one is above it, its human nature...that doesn't mean we can't care about social issues but ultimatly what gets us really going is always going to be something that strikes close to home


[quote/]Lastly, that is a complete cop out and nonsense. "could we all just be equal so you people will stop talking about your issues?" Fucking really? Are you so blind to think that there's no people who care about more then just themselves and would rather support everyone equally rather then focus on singular issues? *rolls eyes*[/quote]

heres the thing though, I can say I'm all for the rights of black people because its perfectly reasonable Idea...but I am not a black person, therefore there are certain things I would not experience, so I'd have a limited understanding of the kind of issues black people (particually women) face which might cause me to midguidedly say things like "why do we need black history month?" or "why do black people get all the scholarships?" unless there was somone to explain thease things (and I was open to hearing them) same with sexism "I don't see why women have a problem with catcalls, why not take it as a compliment?" its not hostile sexism but it is slightly misguided, thats why you can't lump everyone under the same umbrella, their voices are no longer heard

 

[Eamar]

thats like saying if youre a publisher you are obligated to publish ALL genres even if your publishing house is called "sci fi books". That doesn't mean you think less of other genres or want to suplant them completly, but its not your focus.

Sorry for the massive snip, but I wanted to say that's a really good way of putting it and I'm going to use it in future.

Carry on.

 

[Eamar]

Also can I just say that holy crap, I figured the title might be good clickbait but I can't believe the views this thread is getting or that it's made it to 8 pages... Maybe next time I should really push the boat out and throw Anita Sarkeesian in there too