Femme Armor Sacrifices Safety for Sex Appeal

[DementedSheep]

It?s an old joke but I still laughed.

/ stupid rant
I know it?s only a small issue but it has gotten to the point where there are games that I have passed up just because of that. I will still play a game if it?s really really good but most are not. I just can?t be bothered. I hate it when you see armour that looks awesome on a male character, you put it on a female character and its a trashy looking miniskirt, heels and bra or the tight leather armour.
I?m not one of the extreme feminists who cry sexism every time a woman is made to look sexy. Some of us girls do like to feel sexy you know. I don?t have an issue with the over the top sexy action girl in itself, It can even be pretty bad ass and you know, strong and not afraid to be sexy and owns it can be a good thing. I just get really sick of seeing it over and over again, sick of it being the juvenile "OMG tits and bare skin? version of attractiveness and sick of this idea that seems to be prevalent in both media and real life that a woman should doll herself up every day. I don?t think everything needs to be realistic tho its should be relative to the world its set in. If you?re going to have everyone else wearing full armour or power armour or something like that then it?s really tacky and out of place if you have a random chick dressed in a skintight suit. Even if you put in some BS reason like she?s a rogue/ recon and I do get pissed off if a character who previously wasn?t dressed up suddenly becomes that way. (in fact that makes me rage far more than I should as I recently discovered) I don?t think every girl needs to be dressed like a tank (and that?s not practically realistic either, for guys or girls.) I don?t even think the problem is as bad as many make it out to be. Yes there is ton of it but there is a steadily growing group of good female characters who don?t look like the are there to be fapped over. I just get sick of seeing the BS outfits so much and wish ?attractive? wasn?t so often tight fetish outfits or skimpy. Basically diversity and keeping things consitant with the word and the character is the key.
I personally think you can have attractive girls in armour, yes even if it?s heavy and not form fitting it can still look good. Having armour perfectly moulded to body shape, even the girls boobs just looks...odd. You can look good and bad ass without looking over sexed and like you?re going clubbing and not every girl needs to be a sex symbol anyway. I also wish there were more older woman in gaming, you get the badaass, looks like he been through allot older guy but most girls are 18-30 without a single blemish and I wish girls weren?t put in the ?light? classes so much and were not mostly the flip about and do silly tricks kind of fighters.
/end rant

 

[Thaluikhain]

From the type of reasoning you present - you would be better off reading a bit more on history of sword fighting.
If you want a female to fight melee - she can wear same armour as men. If you want her to be dressed for mobility, she can wear men's light armour - e.g. gambesons.

Exactly...if "female armour" worked so well, you'd expect men to wear it.

There are various reasons you could have for skimpy armour, though. Firstly, if there's no armour available to anyone, due to technological, logistics or even cultural reasons, it makes sense for the women not to have any.

Secondly, some parts are more likely to get hit than others (lower legs and weapon arm are mostly likely to be hit), so you might not stick heavy metal on the bits unlikely to be hit. When you've got a shield, you're thighs are fairly well protected, so your legs don't need to be armoured from above the knee so much. If you've got a flat, maneouverable shield, you can protect your weapon arm when you attack, so you don't need to armour that so much (though a gauntlet remains a good idea).

Thirdly, if it's a fantasy setting, why does she have to be humanish? Why can't she have natural armour? You could quite sensibly have a female creature with a hardened carapace that didn't wear much of anything into battle at all, giving her a chance to show off her sexy legs. And she can have say, two pairs of them, that's like twice the fanservice, right? And have a tail with a cute barbed poison injecting thingy, and sexy mandibles, and an adorable habit of vomiting acid over her enemies.

Yeah, I'll shut up now.

 

[Zetsubou^-^]

idk the skit was good, but im tired of people treating this like a bad thing. if it provides full protection in game, whats so bad about skimpy clothing? (other than realism, and full armor tending to have better art.) although the percentage has shifted, males still dominate population on these games. its not terrible for the designers to cater to their core audience, and its not wrong for players to like it.

truth be told, although i often play female characters in games, i have thought "full armor would be better". however, i wouldn't want a permanent trade off. probably the best option would be to have a menu option that tailors it to one or the other, for men and women.

yes i agree with the jimquisition =P

 

[RevRaptor]

Also having worn heavy plate (tournament plate), I'd bet on the girl in the chainmail bikini - you can't see out of those helmets, you're almost immobile encased in 300lbs of iron, and it is easy to be knocked off balance. Once you're on the ground, you're as good as dead because it is pretty much impossible to stand without the help of a squire, so all they have to do is find a seam and stick a sword in.

If you take a look at modern body armor, it's much more specific as to what it protects, and is generally much more useful, simply because it's much better armor. It's relatively practical, and is much more effective at stopping much more than ancient armor was. Of course, all of it is due to scientific advances in just about everything.

One word. Kevlar. Basically its overpowered armour for medieval times. Movement speed of leather. Protective powers exceeding plate.

Fraid not dude modem military kevlar is bloody heavy it weighs in at about 15 kg and only protects the vital areas. A 7.62 short round as used in the AK 47 will actually go right through any area not protected with a ballistic plate and a 7.62 round as used in battle rifles and light machine guns will penetrate the armour completely in most cases. Add your weapon and ammo and you are have about 25 kg of crap and the you have to put your pack on that can be anything from an extra 15 to 30 kg.

Compare that to a knights plate and mallie armour that weighed about 30 kg and offered extremely high levels of protection. Knights in full plate were actually known for being quite nimble and almost every knight was able to vault onto his horse without using strips, doing so was a matter of pride.

 

[punipunipyo]

this reminds me... didn't Dragon Age female warriors get "full armor"? It's good to know that the bikini armors are the thing of the past, and now we are in to more "logical" approach which will promote female players... oh damn... just remembered.. damn Hunted: The Demon's Forge.... damn....

 

[Johnny Impact]

Also, WoW gets a lot of unfair flack for this. It crops up in covers and artwork a lot more than in the actual game. Only a very small handful of items actually work like that (although people do tend to seek them out).

That's not what I saw. My favorite was the blood elf wearing plate armor that had the shape of -- I do not exaggerate -- tiny thong bikini briefs, thigh-highs, and a sport bra. Her midriff, cleavage, butt, and upper thighs were bare. Plate armor is supposed to cover you so completely there isn't a single square inch of skin exposed, yes? Why all that smooth luscious real estate? She looked like a hooker whose chief clientele were as likely to wave an axe at her as a dollar. A male wearing that gear certainly would not have looked that way. My female hunter had some skintight leather leggings with large cuts all the way up the sides. I could go on. Not every piece of female clothing was like this, but then I can't remember a single item modeled on a male in a deliberately provocative way.

 

[Jordi]

Y'know I liked Aribeth but her armor is *bad* ...do you know what would happen about to about %75 of the blows that hit her chest armor?
It would be channeled upwards into her neck and face and she dies.

Yes, like I said, she's still a bit unprotected. But I can imagine some small modifications to her armor that would more or less fix that, while still looking visually appealing.

While she may be wearing more than a chainmail bikini, could you care to explain why her breastplate has individually sculpted breast holders? Last I heard, breastplates were supposed to protect your chest, not show it off.

As long as designers approach females in fantasy with any kind of goal of 'sex appeal', we're going to have this problem. We don't design males in fantasy around sexiness. Sure, we can make them visually striking and appealing (or the opposite), but sex appeal is usually the last thing designers focus on when designing men. It should be exactly the same for women. Sure, make them look visually cool if you like, but when it comes to battlefields and war, sex appeal has nothing to do with either. Trying to make a female ranger or paladin look 'sexy' goes against the entire idea of what rangers and paladins do in the first place. Their profession doesn't require them to look sultry and seductive. It requires them to kill other things, and not die doing so.

Hell, if a woman essentially makes her living getting into fights with beasts and monsters for a living, she's probably not going to end up looking like the dictionary entry for 'beautiful'. She's probably going to have scars, bruises, and possibly missing appendiges. Just like her male counterparts. Pugilists do not generally make for great totty, and by allowing game developers to ignore this, we help perpetuate a view of women that is inherently outdated and objectivistic.

TLDR: Sex appeal is not a factor that generally comes into the design of male fantasy characters at all. It should be no different for women, especially if we want to encourage women to get involved in fantasy gaming. Male wish-fulfillment characters simply don't cut it anymore.

I disagree. First of all, the depiction of males in fantasy games is in general not much more realistic than that of females. Almost all of them are handsome and insanely muscular, and male armor in games often doesn't really make any sense either. They do that because they want to create a visually appealing game with "cool" characters, and they sacrifice some realism and functionality for that.

I also think that society in general has slightly different ideas of what is cool for men and women. Masculine men are cool, and feminine women are cool. So men are depicted as extremely tough, and women are depicted as sexy. That is not the fault of games. It's the fault of society and games are merely conforming to it. You may not agree with it and prefer something different, but I think the majority of people prefers visuals like this and that is why we are getting them.

Of course, women in these kinds of games also need to be tough, because they have to fight and stuff. I can see that if you want more realism, you would want uglier characters with "real", functional armor. Everybody knows this, yet we are still seeing chainmail bikinis and worlds where everybody is insanely beautiful. The reason I suggested Aribeth's armor as a good example, is because it allows developers to make a more satisfying compromise. It seems like they think that they have to choose between sexiness/coolness/visual appeal and function, and given that choice they have shown time and again that they think the first is more important. What I think Aribeth's armor shows is that you can have both (kind of).

I do think that that armor needs to be modified a bit to be more protective, but I think it's a good starting point. For instance, she needs more protection on the upper half of her chest, it looks the material around her upper arms might be cloth and should be replaced by metal, and when she actually goes off to battle it would probably be wise if she would put on some gloves/bracelets and a helmet. Furthermore, I don't know what she's wearing on her legs. I don't really see what is wrong with the "separate breasts" thing though. I mean, I can see that it has no practical use, but as we discussed: it looks nice, and I don't really see how it would provide less protection. But I'm no armor expert.

tl;dr: you can say that women in games don't need to be sexy, but society (I think) and game developers disagree. They apparently think they have to choose between sexy with no protection, and protective but "ugly", and pretty consistently choose the first. Aribeth's armor shows that it is also possible to make armor that is both kind of sexy and far more protective than a bikini.

 

[Kahunaburger]

this reminds me... didn't Dragon Age female warriors get "full armor"? It's good to know that the bikini armors are the thing of the past, and now we are in to more "logical" approach which will promote female players... oh damn... just remembered.. damn Hunted: The Demon's Forge.... damn....

Spoiler: Tragically, no.

Honestly, all I can think of in terms of mainstream RPGs that doesn't do this would be Elder Scrolls, and even then I'm probably forgetting something.

 

[Still Life]

We all know the artists who design those metal-strings were only thinking about how best to turn their characters into faux-porn stars.

 

[Ilyak1986]

Aside from her little bit of Zettai Ryouiki, a good example is Emmy from the Last Remnant. Also, Diablo 2's heavier armors--a fully armored amazon, assassin, or sorceress (EG Tal Rasha's set) were definitely distinctly recognizable, despite not looking like porn stars.

 

[Strazdas]

this is why i never play female characters. they are so unrealistic. especially when they run pretty much naked inside mountains and then complain its cold. (dragon age: origins)

 

[Kahunaburger]

this is why i never play female characters. they are so unrealistic. especially when they run pretty much naked inside mountains and then complain its cold. (dragon age: origins)

Ah, Morrigan. I seem to recall that she actually put on clothes for the sex scene. A kernel of good character design buried under so many questionable decisions.

 

[Chairman Miaow]

This is why quite a lot of females are shying away from tabletops...

That and "Strip when you loose the dice" Tuesday.

strip when you "loose" the dice? well, considering how many rolls are made in tabletop gaming, the dice are going to be "loosed" enough to get everyone naked pretty quickly.

 

[crazyfills]

well I see three good possible solutions solutions:

make all armour equal eg guys fighting bear chest in helmates and trunks and females fighting in chainmail bikinies. (the shadow of rome/jimqwisiton solution)

or seting more games in the present so police or army personel would be wearing standard uniform. (the present day solution)

or we do what we should have done many moons ago and just give female caricters respecable armour! (the apropiate solution)

 

[CorvusFerreum]

Everything I have heard( and I have a friend had a suit custom forged for him, he even helped the smith, he's in the SCA) plate that's made right isn't much more than 35-40 lbs. Which IS heavy, mostly because your body isn't used to it, but it's that much spread over all of you.

I hear most modern soldiers carry about a 100lbs + of weapons, ammunition, armor, and general gear now. I would think most of that is all on their back's too. The only thing I would think modern combat gear has on old full plate is(also plate was used a lot more AFTER muskets and such were around, not before, then only gentry had them)... half of that is weapons and such, you DROP that when you start getting shot at, I would think most gear was carried by pack animals in feudal warfare.

Well 40lbs sounds reasonable to me. But as far as I know, later armour was a bit heavier (if not 60lbs, so 50lbs...ish. I'm not a specialist, so I'll trust your word)

But I'm 100% sure, that there was tournament armour 100lbs. (Well, german Wikipedia speeks of "teilweise über 40kg" (sometimes over 80lbs)). Anyway.


The equipment of today soldiers is in fact quite heavy. A friend of mine once did the math and stated, he would activate a anti-vehicle Mine, when stepping on in in fully equiped. (He's quite huge)

 

[Danceofmasks]

Charlotte Christine de Colde

There's a woman with taste.

 

[Toothache of Sauron]

You didn't look at the barbarian hunk in loincloth.