Fertility Doc Promises Cloned Babies Within Two Years

[insanelich]

I would not have responded with such hostility if you hadn't been a dick. I was calling BS on his experiments so you can very well call BS on me but don't act all superior about it or i'll show you who really is superior.

Well, you sure showed him who's superior. He is.

He's both smarter than you and actually listened in Bio 101.

 

[Fronken]

Over the last few years, Dr. Panayiotis Zavos has been conducting experiments into human cloning in a secret lab believed to be located in a Middle Eastern country.

Okey im sorry but is this serious?

This sounds like the plot for some crappy horror movie...

 

[HerbertTheHamster]

Why is it adults think that cloning is great? Its removing the fun part!

 

[The Shade]

Begun, the clone war has.


(Don't know if someone already said that - too lazy to read through the whole thread.)

 

[Pimppeter2]

Yes, yes I would

 

[GothmogII]

if i had sex with myself would i be gay? would it count as masturbation or rape?

Nether I'd assume. And only rape if you were seriously considering doing it without the clone's permission. (Also, you'd most likely be several years older than your clone anyway unless they could speed up it's ageing, so that would probably end up being unlawful sex with a minor.)

As for being gay. Well, obviously if you're clone is the same sex and it's attractive to you...but then, that means you were before-hand anyway. But no, just having intercourse/sexual relations doesn't make you gay.

 

[dmase]

dude i don't even want to bother with you its been a long night and i'm tired of this thread i have an ap college exam on this shit in two weeks anyways whether i get a five or a four on that will decide whether i know this shit or not. Just in case your interested i'm going to put one more post towards his comment in just a few.

 

[dmase]

The effects of the experiment that you gave above were meant to show that you could prevent cell degredation with those chemicals and it says specifically "Near UV did not, itself, produce DNA degradation". Cell degredation causes cell death. Thats why when you go outside for long periods of time your skin gets red and starts to fall off. When exposed to certain chemicals it increases skin cell loss among other cells, they die not divide.

Ionising radiation, however, can cause damage to DNA, in many cases this leads to induced apoptosis, killing the cell to prevent the effect being copied, but not always. Sometimes it leads to effects like cancer, where cells begin to duplicate wildly. The very fact that healthy cells can become cancerous thanks to radiation exposure shows that the cell DNA can be changed. Low levels of radiation, the like of which you are exposed to all the time (background radiation) cause far less damage, but still some.

Sorry about the eye and hair thing i dumbed it down a little showing the basic model.

The problem is not "dumbing it down" the problem is that it's not relevant, because the genome remains identical in cloning.

the activation of these multiple genes and to what extent will happen during embryonic development just like it did for the carrier of the original cell. You have to look beyond just mitosis and meiosis.

And what do you think controls the activation or otherwise of a gene? That's right, other genes. And those are the same between a clone and it's original at the time the DNA sample was taken.

Alright Dolly the sheep ok remeber what i said about the genes not being watered down, that would be the same for inbred organisms except its the same organism meaning it would happen even more. Inbred species have similar problems with there heart and arthritus that were not present at such an early stage as the parents. This all of course occuring in embro developement like i said.

No, it's nothing like inbreeding. Inbreeding causes problems because there is a high likelyhood of an offspring inheriting two copies of a defective gene. Since a clone offspring is genetically identical to the original sample, this is not an issue.

Ok at the point were the radiation causes cancer I don't think your DNA degredation matters because docters would not put DNA from an unhealthy template to be cloned... well they might but the first few will not be like that. Its possible for genetics to be changed, deleated, and duplicated but to do that without causing major problems is almost impossible unless it occurs among the billions of useless genetic code that litters the human genome.

The reason I put the human genome on there is because i was saying how vast it was and how several spots on the human genome affect one chacteristic don't take my stuff out of context and try to do that that makes you as bad as the media.

Now what i was arguing about is that the clone will not be identical to the template because many things during embryo developement are determined by chemical process, hormones released from endocrine glands. These physical features are also affected by the actual birth mother which they would be using in these first cloning experiments whose hormones would also affect the baby. Eye color is determine by a chemical caused by three different genes and its is 75 percent likely for that one eye clor that orther 25 percent could be another eye color. My point was that most likely they will not look the same as the mother, their genetics will be exactly the same tho i never disputed that.

You can say that my theory is wrong or whatever you want to call it, but yours is in my opinion not very good either. If a cell were to lose some genetic code, because the body is so intertwined by all other things going on then it wouldn't be able to communicate with other cells and i think that it would no longer accomplish its function and the body would probably get rid of the useless cell. No info to really back this up just my guess, and I know for sure that with the loss of communication the cell would die and be recycled.

I was using Inbreeding as an example it could cuase these problems in an ealier stage of life just like cloning possilby could, we could possible say that dolly's condition wasn't even caused by genetics but environmental effects. Nobody really explained but i know that it said in that text that scientists were unable to find a link between dolly's arthritus and genetics so that proves you wrong on that point flat out.

Towards all this info that you and i have provided could be completely wrong in about 30 years or the grey spots that are obivous could come to light espeically concerning the inbreeding. I think that type of relation between cloning and inbreeding is to similar for just coincedence.

I don't feel like posting about this anymore because i have an AP exam on this shit in two weeks i'll be reading this book enough. We'll see if i get a 5 or a 4 on it when the time comes untill then i don't want to look at bio except in class. Feal free to respond but i'm done with this.

 

[Lord_Ascendant]

and jsut when I thought it was safe

Just goes to show people will try anything to be like Star Trek. And I find artificial stuff to be sickening already....but cloning? How many Janes or Johns will there be in the world. We will all end up being the same!!! Oh god, this is a genius idea for a Sci-Fi story. HOORAY IDEA.

 

[GothmogII]

and jsut when I thought it was safe

Just goes to show people will try anything to be like Star Trek. And I find artificial stuff to be sickening already....but cloning? How many Janes or Johns will there be in the world. We will all end up being the same!!! Oh god, this is a genius idea for a Sci-Fi story. HOORAY IDEA.

You must really have dim view on individuality. -_^ We won't all be the same, even identical twins rarely wear the same clothes when they get older, unless they're trying to mess with someone.

There will be people. The will have the same genes. They will have the same faces. That is all, when they grow up, they'll want their own lives like everyone else.

 

[Lord_Ascendant]

and jsut when I thought it was safe

Just goes to show people will try anything to be like Star Trek. And I find artificial stuff to be sickening already....but cloning? How many Janes or Johns will there be in the world. We will all end up being the same!!! Oh god, this is a genius idea for a Sci-Fi story. HOORAY IDEA.

You must really have dim view on individuality. -_^ We won't all be the same, even identical twins rarely wear the same clothes when they get older, unless they're trying to mess with someone.

There will be people. The will have the same genes. They will have the same faces. That is all, when they grow up, they'll want their own lives like everyone else.

I had a Sci-Fi moment. It sounded very......bad. It will either be Cloning or Cylons, whichever comes first.

 

[Lord George]

I shall clone myself and create a clone army, each a perfect killing machine free of remorse, mortality and emotion. We would rule the world and it wouldn't matter how many died they would be replaceable. Mahahaha.

 

[littlerob]

Ok at the point were the radiation causes cancer I don't think your DNA degredation matters because docters would not put DNA from an unhealthy template to be cloned... well they might but the first few will not be like that. Its possible for genetics to be changed, deleated, and duplicated but to do that without causing major problems is almost impossible unless it occurs among the billions of useless genetic code that litters the human genome.

The reason I put the human genome on there is because i was saying how vast it was and how several spots on the human genome affect one chacteristic don't take my stuff out of context and try to do that that makes you as bad as the media.

Now what i was arguing about is that the clone will not be identical to the template because many things during embryo developement are determined by chemical process, hormones released from endocrine glands. These physical features are also affected by the actual birth mother which they would be using in these first cloning experiments whose hormones would also affect the baby. Eye color is determine by a chemical caused by three different genes and its is 75 percent likely for that one eye clor that orther 25 percent could be another eye color. My point was that most likely they will not look the same as the mother, their genetics will be exactly the same tho i never disputed that.

You can say that my theory is wrong or whatever you want to call it, but yours is in my opinion not very good either. If a cell were to lose some genetic code, because the body is so intertwined by all other things going on then it wouldn't be able to communicate with other cells and i think that it would no longer accomplish its function and the body would probably get rid of the useless cell. No info to really back this up just my guess, and I know for sure that with the loss of communication the cell would die and be recycled.

I was using Inbreeding as an example it could cuase these problems in an ealier stage of life just like cloning possilby could, we could possible say that dolly's condition wasn't even caused by genetics but environmental effects. Nobody really explained but i know that it said in that text that scientists were unable to find a link between dolly's arthritus and genetics so that proves you wrong on that point flat out.

Towards all this info that you and i have provided could be completely wrong in about 30 years or the grey spots that are obivous could come to light espeically concerning the inbreeding. I think that type of relation between cloning and inbreeding is to similar for just coincedence.

I don't feel like posting about this anymore because i have an AP exam on this shit in two weeks i'll be reading this book enough. We'll see if i get a 5 or a 4 on it when the time comes untill then i don't want to look at bio except in class. Feal free to respond but i'm done with this.

I'm just going to step in here and say one thing. Dmase, it might help if you used actual grammar and spelling. People tend to take your argument more seriously if you look like you can actually read and write. People tend to assume that a badly written argument is also a badly thought-out one, whether that is true or not. As it is, you come off looking like an 18 year old just doing his/her first course after school. While that may or may not be the case, when talking about high-level biology and the ethics around it, it's not the kind of image you want to be projecting...

Also, I did no biology past GCSE (16, for those of you that aren't from England), plus what I've accumulated from the internet and a passing interest in the subject, and even I can tell that Gloating Swine makes a hell of a better argument than you do. I can't really tell what your argument are, for one thing.

 

[traceur_]

Gotta be this song (c) Isaac Asimov

Oh, give me a clone
Of my own flesh and bone
With its Y-chromosome changed to X
And when it is grown
Then my own little clone
Will be of the opposite sex.

Clone, clone of my own,
With your Y-Chromosome changed to X
And when I'm alone
With my own little clone
We will both think of nothing but sex.

I thank yew.

Taking masturbation to a whole new level.

 

[Lazzi]

If I had a clone that was my age then I would have passionate sex all night long...

 

[Sevre]

Please read Never Let Me Go by Kazuo Ishiguro and then call in an airstrike.