FF7 remake most important ever, and that's not a compliment

[Odbarc]

I have a significant problem with FF7. It's a classic but if the remake doesn't fix it, I'm definitely not going to get it.

The magic system had a lot of classic options but cure+all was the only effective use of mana in the entire game. No enemy was weak enough to any element that curing your entire party with the same amount of mana and spamming fight wasn't a more cost effective option. In effect, the combat system suffers and only offers eye candy.
When you can cast a spell for 500 damage for 10 mana OR fight 10 times for 1000 damage and then cure+all the team back to full health for the same amount of mana, it's a waste to cast any other spell than cure+all.
If Ultima costs 100 mana, it needs to do at least 9999 damage to be in par with cure+all and it mostly doesn't.

Worse flawed is you can just get like 3~4 HP materia per person and you're too tanky for a lot of enemies to kill for a large portion of the rest of the game.

I would absolutely LOVE IT if they could manage some kind of quicker transition between fights, in and out. CD based games were pretty bad and slowed down the process of playing the game compared to their sprite based counterparts.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

I played through FF7 in 1998, and never touched anything related to it since then except for watching "Advent Children" (and I basically just fast-forwarded to the fight sequences in that). If you gave me a sheet of paper and about 5 minutes, I could write you the names of every major character in the game and probably give you a little of their backstory as well. That's how much that game stuck with me, and this is coming from someone who hates anime style, and didn't like any of the other Final Fantasy games.

I can't do that with any other RPG that I played through that long ago except for Planescape: Torment.

So yes, the game could certainly use some improvements to some of its mechanics, but overall I consider it one of the most memorable games I ever played through.

 

[MysticSlayer]

Seriously, stuff that's twenty years old isn't remembered fondly solely due to nostalgia (because if nostalgia was the sole or main factor then the FMV phase of gaming wouldn't be relentlessly mocked as it is).

I agree, sure nostalgia colors views on older games in a very favorable light. But you only look back fondly on things you remember being good, because they generally were.

I very much agree. Nostalgia requires there to have been something there in the first place that could both capture the imagination in the moment and stick with the player long afterwards. Sure, it can cause us to not bring up flaws when talking about the game (which probably frustrates those who jump into it for the first time years later), but in the end, those flaws just don't matter in the grand scheme of things because those games did at least one thing so well that it made up for flaws. And unfortunately for people who can't look past those flaws, they end up getting blinded to whatever caused so many people to remember the game so fondly for so long.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

I mean I played FF7 for the first time like 5 years ago. It wasn't awful, but it want good either. It was meh. Decent. C+. Neither terribly good like Bioshock or terribly bad like Bioshock 2. Absolutely nothing remarkable.
I've had this conversation often on this site and the consensus seems to be FF7 was good when it came out. Leave it alone. Don't replay, don't remake. Leave it alone so you don't ruin thousands of nostalgic memories.

 

[CritialGaming]

I mean I played FF7 for the first time like 5 years ago. It wasn't awful, but it want good either. It was meh. Decent. C+. Neither terribly good like Bioshock or terribly bad like Bioshock 2. Absolutely nothing remarkable.
I've had this conversation often on this site and the consensus seems to be FF7 was good when it came out. Leave it alone. Don't replay, don't remake. Leave it alone so you don't ruin thousands of nostalgic memories.

You comparing FF7 to Bioshock makes me want to hurt very tiny animals. It's like saying oranges are not nearly as good as skittles. Oranges are okay, but I mean skittles bro....awesome.

If you compared FF7 to another RPG then okay, but you are putting an RPG against an FPS in your mind which doesn't make any sense to me. Regardless of what your opinion of either title actually is. You may like Bioshock better, and that's fine, but those games are so radically different and come from such radically different eras in gaming that one cannot possibly hold up against each other.

 

[Auron225]

So what, everyone who ever played it is suffering from a mass delusion that it was a good game? And the author of this article is the one person who saw it for what it was really was?

If you want this article in 9 words; "I'm not crazy! Everyone else is the crazy ones!!1!1!"

 

[Something Amyss]

If it was babby's first RPG what were the other 6?

Ah. Diction probems.

"Babby's first" is not a statement that it is the original. It does not have to be the first in a series or the first game, period. It needs to serve as entry to the genre or be intended to. The concept comes from those "baby's first" products, none of which are first.

You go on to prove my point, in that it was your first RPG. Like, immediately after trying to dismiss my case, you make it for me.

As for what about the other 6, not all of them even made it out of Japan initially. FFVI was retroactively dubbed a masterpiece, but that was well after FFVII came out.

I mean it was my first RPG, but that was because my nintendo days were filled with Mario and Donkey Kong country.

Exactiment.

That's a fairly silly complaint about a game that ignores the fact that many JRPG veterans also enjoyed it.

Except A. it wasn't a complaint, but a statement of fact, and B. it doesn't ignore veteran players, it's just a statement where veteran players are irrelevant. Whether veteran players played VII or not doesn't change the statement.

If you look at lists of "baby's first," most RPGs/anime/whatever listed will be ones that veterans played. A lot of times, they won't even be basic, just popular. I mean, some are. Pokémon is often on those lists, because the single player game is pretty easy and light, but this isn't a defining feature.

Point remains, this was the game that got the mainstream audience, as in the one the kiddies cut their teeth on. This was the first RPG many experienced. You can tell by the way its sales figures manage to dwarf most of the games in the FF series and prior console RPGs. Also by its popularity in the West.

If you want a game that really was a JRPG Lite, you have to go back a bit and check out Final Fantasy Mystic Quest.

Yes, and when it finally sells 10 million copies, we'll talk. But you'll notice I didn't say JRPG lite. You did.

I doubt re-translating the script would result in something that's going to show up Planescape: Torment, but it might elevate it from "serviceable and occasionally hilarious in all the wrong ways" to "yep, that's a JRPG all right."

I'm not sure that helps anything. While things like "I'll be stand here" are potentially amusing/cringe worthy, the script would need fundamental work to make it particularly any better. As you say, translation can only do so much.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

Well I'm excited. I'm sorry the game doesn't meet that person's standards, but to me, any time I hear someone talk like this, the feeling I get is more along the lines of, "Waaaah, I don't like that this thing is so popular, so why do you stupid people like it so much? Stop being stupid and liking what I don't like."

 

[mad825]

Well yes. But really. Once you get into the Shrina building 5 or so hours into a 70 hours game, the tone shifts from corporate bad too, oh god god-like evil dude is back and we have to chase him down and stop him.

....Did we play the same game? The tone never changed, with AVALANCHE being a front for Greenpeace and Hatred Sephiroth whining like a ***** because he doesn't have any parents...I mean ffs, most people in that situation wouldn't give a fuck. Even if he is symbolism for the Antichrist I would expected more cynicism than anything else.

You are free to have your qualms and have parts about the story that you don't like. You're taste of storytelling here is valid. However every story is going to have some kind of message, it is just a matter of whether you can ignore the subtext of the plot in order to sit and enjoy the story as it is told.

If you want corporate bad messages play a couple Resident evil games. Or wait, you didn't like that.....don't play resident evil.

RE is a whole different minefield, it's camp and it isn't so blunt with it's message (as in I know and you don't need to tell me) and the premise is unique. It's out stayed it's welcome after 4.

Still, I find it funny that you proclaim to be good, almost perfect in fact and yet you want a remake? You realise that REFF7 won't be the same as the original, no? The story will be cut, edited and resampled. You want a FF7 without ATB? GTFO IMO, after FFX it's been a incoherent mess to a point where they've almost removed any user interactivity.

So you really think that SE will release a game without thinking about a homogenised audience?

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

SNIP

You comparing FF7 to Bioshock makes me want to hurt very tiny animals. It's like saying oranges are not nearly as good as skittles. Oranges are okay, but I mean skittles bro....awesome.

If you compared FF7 to another RPG then okay, but you are putting an RPG against an FPS in your mind which doesn't make any sense to me. Regardless of what your opinion of either title actually is. You may like Bioshock better, and that's fine, but those games are so radically different and come from such radically different eras in gaming that one cannot possibly hold up against each other.

Would it help if I compared FF7 to the Mass Effect trilogy, Kotor, Dragon Age or hell even Pokemon and said compared to them FF7 looks like a pile of used cheeseburgers over a half broke Speak-&-Spell that someone glued googly eyes to?
'Cause I can do that if it saves tiny animals.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

And then there are those who say it's a bad game are prob gamers who didn't grew up in the PS1 era, and are so used to modern game, they might say it's bad in their view. That's how generations work, maybe the remake will help with that.

I grew up with Atari and NES. I tried to play FF6 on SNES but I just couldn't take the horrible turn-based combat and random battles. There's not enough strategy in the combat of FF to merit it being turn-based. Maybe that was the only way to do things back then at least with the combat system, there was no need for random battles though. Just because that may have been the best way to do something then doesn't mean it was good. And, PS1 era definitely had the hardware to do away with the bad turn-based combat and random battles. I'd call FF6 a bad game because trudging through all that combat was what you spent most of the game doing and if what I spend most of the game doing isn't fun or entertaining, then the game simply isn't good. I never played FF7 because I knew I wouldn't like it. I'm not going to just call a game I didn't play bad, but I tried to play a few JRPGs like it and I just couldn't stand the battle systems. Hell, I knew when I played Syphon Filter that 3rd-person shooters would be way better in the future (just control-wise), I didn't need to have played a modern TPS to know that.

 

[LordLundar]

If it was babby's first RPG what were the other 6?

Unheard of. The bulk of the mass appeal for FF7 was that it was the first Mass Marketed game in the series and was heavily so. It had a budget that the devs would have KILLED for with the previous games and most of it was in marketing. The PS1 and PS2 era was when games were being heavily marketed to the general public whereas before they were niche markets and the JRPG corner was essentially a niche of a niche. THAT's why for most of the people overrating the game it's because of nostalgia. For them, FF7 was their first one in the series. Not helped that for a large percentage of them the previous titles that first caught their attention were the piss-poor Playstation ports.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Note I never said that those who call it bad, didn't play it. If they did and didn't grew up in the PS1 era, some are likely to call it a bad game. And there are people who will call it bad before playing it.

To me, you were implying that people that play FF7 now say it's bad because of how genre has evolved. You could've played it on released and called it a bad game too is what I'm saying. I played FF6 and it's a bad game to me. I tried the series again and actually beat FF10 mainly due to the random battles (the series was still using random battles on fucking PS2) being not so frequent and it was a bad game all around, the combat was so simplistic and the characters were awful. I played FF12 and actually liked it to a degree and FF12 is basically a proof of all prior FF games having combat that doesn't require them being turn-based. Anyways, I'm actually sorta looking forward to a FF7 remake with an entertaining combat system so I can experience the story without having to trudge through combat that I hate.

 

[Caine Master]

I haven't played FF7 in many years and I'm really excited for the remake. For me, I enjoy the story more then most story heavy games today. I have no problem with the game play mechanics; I recently played FF8 and I enjoyed that. FF7 is still one of my favorite games and I'm so happy to play it again with updated tech.

Why do some people find it so bad that the game is being remade? Its not like they have to buy it. They can ignore the people that do like it if they want to.

 

[Lightspeaker]

I find that people who have never played FF7, are often the ones who cry out about it being overrated and not that good.

I have played it. First time a couple of years after it was released in fact. It is overrated.

That does NOT mean the same thing as "it was a bad game". Its a good game. A very good game in fact, but not without its flaws. Its still overrated because the fanbase treats it like the second coming of Jesus Christ. Frankly as far as I'm concerned it was surpassed in overall quality quite handily by FF9 and the combat system in FF10 absolutely demolished every FF game before it.

Hell, it was surpassed prior to release by both FF4 and FF6. Its only because it was the first big 3D one with a gigantic budget and huge amounts of marketing that people went so nuts for it in the first place. Which is understandable but results in a heavily rose-tinted view now. In contrast my actual first Final Fantasy was 8; which I have a huge soft spot for but I recognise and accept as one of the weaker entries in the series largely because of the bizarre and slightly broken stats and levelling system combined with the draw magic mechanic.

Again, its not bad. Its good in fact. I'm going to be buying it if only because of the disgusting way FF15 has seemingly turned out. (Seriously Squeenix, can't you make a proper turn based RPG anymore?)

Something closer to FFXII rather than FFXIII though because.....reasons.

God almighty I hope that was a joke because FF12 is, by far, the absolute worst put-together game in the entire series. That combat system was an abomination that should never have been within a country mile of a Final Fantasy game.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

the combat system in FF10 absolutely demolished every FF game before it...

God almighty I hope that was a joke because FF12 is, by far, the absolute worst put-together game in the entire series. That combat system was an abomination that should never have been within a country mile of a Final Fantasy game.

FF12 has the same exact combat system under-the-hood has FF10, you could even play FF12 just like FF10 if you wanted to. FF12 merely allowed you to automate all the basic stuff. Like everyone is at good health levels so I'll attack or that person is under 25% health so I'll heal them. It was all common sense stuff you just constantly had to do ad nauseam in prior FFs. I'm not praising FF12 system as great or anything, it was just merely better because it kept me out of blasted menus as much as possible. Put in if-then-else statements (gambits) in FF10 and it would play itself too.

 

[Fox12]

FF7 is the most overrated game ever

...

I've never played FF7

So what's the discussion value here, other then baiting fanboys?

In any case, it's not the most overrated game ever. It's not even the most overrated FF. Nor is it the greatest game ever made. It's a classic because it genre defining, pure and simple. It's best to ignore the loud voices on both sides of the argument and just accept it for what it is, based on its own merits. A heavily flawed, but influential work of fiction.

Honestly, this reminds me of the Twilight phase. The books and fans were bad, but nowhere NEAR as bad as the pompous critics who would not. stop. talking about it. We get it, you don't like something that's popular. We're all very impressed, now go find something useful to do.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

Unheard of. The bulk of the mass appeal for FF7 was that it was the first Mass Marketed game in the series and was heavily so. It had a budget that the devs would have KILLED for with the previous games and most of it was in marketing. The PS1 and PS2 era was when games were being heavily marketed to the general public whereas before they were niche markets and the JRPG corner was essentially a niche of a niche. THAT's why for most of the people overrating the game it's because of nostalgia. For them, FF7 was their first one in the series. Not helped that for a large percentage of them the previous titles that first caught their attention were the piss-poor Playstation ports.

I believe there is no better retort than this:

So what, everyone who ever played it is suffering from a mass delusion that it was a good game? And the author of this article is the one person who saw it for what it was really was?

If you want this article in 9 words; "I'm not crazy! Everyone else is the crazy ones!!1!1!"

Those who cry "nostalgia" have clearly run out of actual arguments to use. Like I said, nostalgia only does so much; if something really hasn't age well or wasn't good then time would prove that. And it hasn't for FFVII. People STILL play it, people STILL like it, and it's STILL the gold standard for a gigantic chunk of the RPG fanbase. If it were overrated or aged badly it would have been commonly accepted by now like with Rare's Nintendo games, FMV titles, FF's 8, 12, and 13, tons of entries in the Ultima series, the early X-Com titles, and so on.

And that's before we get into the biggest and most baffling question: why? WHY are people so adamant in trying to label something as overrated or claim it wasn't as good as its fandom says? Where exactly did this "fuck our history" mentality pop up? This would be like trying to discredit cinema classics like The Godfather, Ben-Hur, The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly, The Sting, The Treasure of Sierra Madre, The Bridge on the River Kwai, Bonnie and Clyde, Patton, The French Connection, A Clockwork Orange, Deliverance, American Graffiti, Chinatown, Jaws, Star Wars, Raiders of the Lost Ark, and others just because they're old. And ultimately, this is what we would earn from it: NOTHING. We would, at best, have some guys getting a little self-satisfaction out of smugly proving one game is overrated. We don't learn from it, we don't suddenly get better games, it doesn't somehow erase FFVII being the biggest reason Sony's PS1 wasn't just a short-lived experiment, and it doesn't change how it is still the best-selling and most critically acclaimed game in the series.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

I find that people who have never played FF7, are often the ones who cry out about it being overrated and not that good. It's like a group of hipsters that stand around smoking cigarettes and talking about how games only really mattered when the graphics were so blurry and pixalated that it took real imagination to make the game worthwhile.

Final Fantasy VII was the first Final Fantasy game I'd ever played and I still say it's one of the most overrated game in history. My personal favorite is Final Fantasy III/VI. Make no mistake, FFVII is by no means a terrible game, but better Final Fantasy games came before it and... well before it.

 

[Danbo Jambo]

I don't get the complaints about the combat? I absolutely love turn based or ATB battles, and FF7 does them incredibly rhythmically and stylishly, with a wonderful amount of flexibility and development.