Film This Chick Stuff! Part One: A Call for Aid
- Thread starter MovieBob
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I think the lack of female analogs to the GI Joe/ Transformers movies is mostly an indictment of the modern american male. Which is to say at a certain age girls became women, and to quote the good book, put away childish things.
Contrastingly movie going 18-35 year old males still live in a psuedo-childhood, where giant robots, and super heroes, and such are still cool.
I don't claim to understand the old generations very well. But I'm pretty sure if 18 year old male in 1978 told other 18 year old he wanted to see a Howdy Doody movie, he would have been ostracized and burnt at the disco stake.
Contrastingly movie going 18-35 year old males still live in a psuedo-childhood, where giant robots, and super heroes, and such are still cool.
I don't claim to understand the old generations very well. But I'm pretty sure if 18 year old male in 1978 told other 18 year old he wanted to see a Howdy Doody movie, he would have been ostracized and burnt at the disco stake.
I think the reason the "boy" stuff became greenlit for pictures is because it's more recognizable, and it's held up better.
Like Transformers, the movies weren't good, but the pitch sounds just as cool as it did in the 80s Alien robots that came to earth, and they can disguise themselves as vehicles. AWESOME! It's female equivalent, My little pony, well they're still around, but instead of being an all encompassing, general "girl" toy, it's now marketed towards younger girls, who still have an interest in that thing.
That's just one example, and I'm sure there's more, I'm also sure that a few of these "girl" things could be made into actually decent movies, if they tried hard enough.
Of course, I'm neither a girl, nor did I grow up in the 80s, where this stuff would actually be considered nostalgic for me.
Though, I'm not here to totally cast doubt on the whole process. I know one "girl" oriented franchise, at least I think it was, it was pretty gender neutral in terms of appeal.
Xena: Warrior Princess. Yes, it ran in the mid 90s and got canceled in 01, but Hollywood doesn't care how old its mined ideas are. Apparently, the series was supposed to get a film, starring the original actors, but that's not ever likely to be.
There hasn't been a good fantasy action movie in a while, and there hasn't been a good one starring a female hero since... was Red Sonja any good? Ah, it doesn't matter it was basically a Conan Film with its inclusion of Ahnold anyway.
I say, make a full budget Xena film, if only to see an attractive actress in the costume, and a new wave of lesbian subtext, which was basically the lifeblood of the show in its final seasons.
Like Transformers, the movies weren't good, but the pitch sounds just as cool as it did in the 80s Alien robots that came to earth, and they can disguise themselves as vehicles. AWESOME! It's female equivalent, My little pony, well they're still around, but instead of being an all encompassing, general "girl" toy, it's now marketed towards younger girls, who still have an interest in that thing.
That's just one example, and I'm sure there's more, I'm also sure that a few of these "girl" things could be made into actually decent movies, if they tried hard enough.
Of course, I'm neither a girl, nor did I grow up in the 80s, where this stuff would actually be considered nostalgic for me.
Though, I'm not here to totally cast doubt on the whole process. I know one "girl" oriented franchise, at least I think it was, it was pretty gender neutral in terms of appeal.
Xena: Warrior Princess. Yes, it ran in the mid 90s and got canceled in 01, but Hollywood doesn't care how old its mined ideas are. Apparently, the series was supposed to get a film, starring the original actors, but that's not ever likely to be.
There hasn't been a good fantasy action movie in a while, and there hasn't been a good one starring a female hero since... was Red Sonja any good? Ah, it doesn't matter it was basically a Conan Film with its inclusion of Ahnold anyway.
I say, make a full budget Xena film, if only to see an attractive actress in the costume, and a new wave of lesbian subtext, which was basically the lifeblood of the show in its final seasons.
That was it! Thank you! And yeah, it was worse then I remembered. It would almost have to be a Stepford Wives rip off to make it interesting at this point.Onyx Oblivion said:
I don't know why I was remembering something closer to Astro Boy, maybe just wishful thinking.
I'll second the notion that a lot of "girly" franchises do not age well for more mature audiences, probably due to a general infantilization of female children. Whereas male children are encouraged to enjoy action, which is mostly ageless/timeless/etc, female children seem to be more "told" to care about what thing is cutest, prettiest, etc. And to be fair, there's nothing HUGELY wrong with genuinely liking cuteness, but it really helps if there's some sort of substance behind it.
Of course, someone else upthread also pointed out something very interesting as an explanation for lack of substance beyond LOL COMPANIES THINK GIRLS ARE DUMB; that while male toys were often prepackaged with specific narratives, characters etc, "girlie" toys were more blank slates with which the girls could use their imagination and create their own narratives. There were exceptions, naturally - She-Ra, Jem and Rainbow Bright all had actual characters and stories - but as far as I know, most girls who played with Barbies or My Little Ponies just made up their "cast of characters" from their heads. I certainly did. In a way, this is sort of cool, in that girls were to a certain extent encouraged to be storytellers in their own right, and the toys were the tools with which to tell the story. Unfortunately, it meant we didn't get a huge amount of cool TV shows out of it. Not until anime came along, that is... then we suddenly got more cool shows than we knew what to do with. :3
Having said that, here are a few toys/shows I remember or played with that I'd either like to see a movie of or think could be remade or re-envisioned as new cartoons for modern little girls (note I'm thinking mostly of 80's stuff and not counting anime):
- She-Ra
- Jem
- Rainbow Bright
- My Little Pony (either the old "fantasy" one or the 90's version which was more modern, ie ponies in junior high etc)
- Lady Lovely Locks (does anyone else remember this show? For some reason I loved it as a kid. It had a few interesting plot threads, weird magic system, and a kind of cool villainess)
- Gummy Bears (this is arguably a gender neutral show, but very cuddly and cutesy so a lot of girls enjoyed it. Plus I remember it having cool female characters, fun action and being generally entertaining)
- Teddy Ruxpin (again, arguably gender neutral but cutesy and appealing, with a great marketing tie in - I loved my Teddy Ruxpin doll - and a story that I remember being oddly dark in places)
- Raggedy Ann and Andy (never seen the movie, but considering it made the Nostalgia Critic's Top 11 Nostalgic MindF**ks, I wonder if there's some potential here?)
- The Last Unicorn (well DUH)
- Polly Pocket (never played with these, but they always looked really cool)
Of course, someone else upthread also pointed out something very interesting as an explanation for lack of substance beyond LOL COMPANIES THINK GIRLS ARE DUMB; that while male toys were often prepackaged with specific narratives, characters etc, "girlie" toys were more blank slates with which the girls could use their imagination and create their own narratives. There were exceptions, naturally - She-Ra, Jem and Rainbow Bright all had actual characters and stories - but as far as I know, most girls who played with Barbies or My Little Ponies just made up their "cast of characters" from their heads. I certainly did. In a way, this is sort of cool, in that girls were to a certain extent encouraged to be storytellers in their own right, and the toys were the tools with which to tell the story. Unfortunately, it meant we didn't get a huge amount of cool TV shows out of it. Not until anime came along, that is... then we suddenly got more cool shows than we knew what to do with. :3
Having said that, here are a few toys/shows I remember or played with that I'd either like to see a movie of or think could be remade or re-envisioned as new cartoons for modern little girls (note I'm thinking mostly of 80's stuff and not counting anime):
- She-Ra
- Jem
- Rainbow Bright
- My Little Pony (either the old "fantasy" one or the 90's version which was more modern, ie ponies in junior high etc)
- Lady Lovely Locks (does anyone else remember this show? For some reason I loved it as a kid. It had a few interesting plot threads, weird magic system, and a kind of cool villainess)
- Gummy Bears (this is arguably a gender neutral show, but very cuddly and cutesy so a lot of girls enjoyed it. Plus I remember it having cool female characters, fun action and being generally entertaining)
- Teddy Ruxpin (again, arguably gender neutral but cutesy and appealing, with a great marketing tie in - I loved my Teddy Ruxpin doll - and a story that I remember being oddly dark in places)
- Raggedy Ann and Andy (never seen the movie, but considering it made the Nostalgia Critic's Top 11 Nostalgic MindF**ks, I wonder if there's some potential here?)
- The Last Unicorn (well DUH)
- Polly Pocket (never played with these, but they always looked really cool)
Howdy Doody, possibly, but "men" of the late 1970s dutifully lined up for movie versions of Zorro, the Lone Ranger and Superman - which were all looked on as kids-stuff at the time. It's worth remembering, when regarding genre film, that before "Star Wars" there was really no such thing as "soft scifi" that wasn't seen as kid material, save for parodies like Barbarella.sszebra said:
If I recall correctly, a fanfic writer actually landed the job of writing episodes towards the end, (Yeah, no idea who the hell thought that would be a good idea.) by all accounts she was actually pretty good at writing fanfic, and it was pretty tasteful stuff, I heard.Sir John the Net Knight said:
And I don't think they ever flat out said Xena and Gabrielle were a couple, but the hidden lesbian subtext of the series became a lot more overt.
movienut said:
I've never even watched the show, the theme song and mere idea of the show is a running gag on a local morning radio show.Sir John the Net Knight said:
USELESS TRIVIA MAN! AWAAAAAAAAAY!
Here's something to consider. Have you ever heard the concept that states "girls can play with guy's toys, but guys can't play with girl's"?
I could go watch "Transformers" with my boyfriend in a theater and no one would bat an eye. Hell, I could even go by myself and no one would think twice. It might, to some men, actually be "cool" that a girl would be into something like that.
On the flip side, if I were to ask my boyfriend to come see "Sex in the City" with me, he might receive some sympathetic looks from the ticket seller, or from his friends when he later explains to them what he was just forced to spend the night doing. Men who would go see a movie like that by themselves? A very small minority, I'm sure.
Hollywood knows that. They want to reach as much of an audience as they can. Seeing as how a "boy movie" would bring in both the male and female audience, rather than a "girl movie" bringing just the female, it's the safer (and more profitable) bet to just make the "boy movie" and not bother with anything else.
I know there are exceptions to everything, but... Yeah.
PS: Sorry if my sentences ramble a bit. I didn't get much sleep.
I could go watch "Transformers" with my boyfriend in a theater and no one would bat an eye. Hell, I could even go by myself and no one would think twice. It might, to some men, actually be "cool" that a girl would be into something like that.
On the flip side, if I were to ask my boyfriend to come see "Sex in the City" with me, he might receive some sympathetic looks from the ticket seller, or from his friends when he later explains to them what he was just forced to spend the night doing. Men who would go see a movie like that by themselves? A very small minority, I'm sure.
Hollywood knows that. They want to reach as much of an audience as they can. Seeing as how a "boy movie" would bring in both the male and female audience, rather than a "girl movie" bringing just the female, it's the safer (and more profitable) bet to just make the "boy movie" and not bother with anything else.
I know there are exceptions to everything, but... Yeah.
PS: Sorry if my sentences ramble a bit. I didn't get much sleep.
DAMN MY PENIS!!!
I cant really think of much as my sister was abit of a Tom Boy so we just watched anime together which as you said is fairly open for all.
My cousin (ironically a guy) used to watch Xena but im sure I dont have to go into what that is, I mean come on, ITS XENA!!! Funny enough now I think about it Xena was just one of those male counterparts, you mentioned, of Hercules, which ironically ended up more popular.
Off the top of my head, Sailor Moon (again you guys already know this) and possibly Escaflowne which was basically Gundam Wing but girlier if thats possible concerning Gundams later character design.
http://www.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&source=imghp&biw=1366&bih=576&q=escaflowne&gbv=2&aq=0&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=escafl&gs_rfai=
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=240
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Vision_of_Escaflowne
Sorry I cant find better sources and it already seems it has a movie, although this was also an anime so was proberly by the same company and ANIMATED BY BONES!!! WOW!!!
HOLY CRAP, I FORGOT ABOUT POWERPUFF GIRLS!!! I watched and loved that show.
I cant really think of much as my sister was abit of a Tom Boy so we just watched anime together which as you said is fairly open for all.
My cousin (ironically a guy) used to watch Xena but im sure I dont have to go into what that is, I mean come on, ITS XENA!!! Funny enough now I think about it Xena was just one of those male counterparts, you mentioned, of Hercules, which ironically ended up more popular.
Off the top of my head, Sailor Moon (again you guys already know this) and possibly Escaflowne which was basically Gundam Wing but girlier if thats possible concerning Gundams later character design.
http://www.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&source=imghp&biw=1366&bih=576&q=escaflowne&gbv=2&aq=0&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=escafl&gs_rfai=
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=240
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Vision_of_Escaflowne
Sorry I cant find better sources and it already seems it has a movie, although this was also an anime so was proberly by the same company and ANIMATED BY BONES!!! WOW!!!
HOLY CRAP, I FORGOT ABOUT POWERPUFF GIRLS!!! I watched and loved that show.
I loved that show too! I feel that because toys marketed at girls are attempting to be in the "now," they are dated very quickly. Whereas, GI Joe, when are specialized soldiers ever out of fasion? Or Legos, who doesn't like legos? I also feel that as women grow up, they want to hide away their childish toys and act mature as they see their "idols" on MTV and the like being older than their ages suggest.Grievous222 said:
And yes, I sometimes still play with my Legos when i visit my parents while hiding from my wife.
I think people are forgetting MovieBob's rule, that you can make a good movie out of anything.
Yes a lot of the franchises of the 80s that were aimed towards girls sucked. I tended to like Transformers and ThunderCats more than My Little Pony and Jem. But that's mainly because those shows were just so poorly made.
I'm sure a feature length movie made based on She-Ra and Jem, if done right, would actually turn out better than most people think. All it would take is a very talented director and screenwriter.
And yes I know She-Ra was a spin off but I for one would still like to see it because I was a big She-Ra fan as a child. It was the one "girly" thing of the 80s I did like.
Yes a lot of the franchises of the 80s that were aimed towards girls sucked. I tended to like Transformers and ThunderCats more than My Little Pony and Jem. But that's mainly because those shows were just so poorly made.
I'm sure a feature length movie made based on She-Ra and Jem, if done right, would actually turn out better than most people think. All it would take is a very talented director and screenwriter.
And yes I know She-Ra was a spin off but I for one would still like to see it because I was a big She-Ra fan as a child. It was the one "girly" thing of the 80s I did like.
Jem is perhaps the best bet. Its one of the shows looked on the most fondly of the girl franchises for the grown woman geek. Jerrica is a girl with some musical talent who manages her own company, takes care of the needy, and is an international world travelling rockstar who raises awareness to issues. Sound like anyone we know? Sure the whole wonder woman vibe may be much but it says alot that not only was there some substance behind things but there was a good deal of accomplishable goals and ideas.
The big thing about girl franchises often is how constraining they were. NO girl franchise I hear about in geek circles, admittedly not much for the girl geeks, is enjoyed straight in every interpretation of the word. The Misfits are thought of as cooler. Every female fan hates Rio and even likes making the girls gay for each other to a degree.
This is mainly because all girl franchises often were about forcing you to play house only ya know with this specific toy.
Now as to My Little Pony, might I just suggest a second look [http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=489807] its got some exploitable fun there. but also, the main thing is yes, they are tools for imagination which trend to social networks not icons into narratives you can follow to achieve a destiny of greatness.
The big thing about girl franchises often is how constraining they were. NO girl franchise I hear about in geek circles, admittedly not much for the girl geeks, is enjoyed straight in every interpretation of the word. The Misfits are thought of as cooler. Every female fan hates Rio and even likes making the girls gay for each other to a degree.
This is mainly because all girl franchises often were about forcing you to play house only ya know with this specific toy.
Now as to My Little Pony, might I just suggest a second look [http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=489807] its got some exploitable fun there. but also, the main thing is yes, they are tools for imagination which trend to social networks not icons into narratives you can follow to achieve a destiny of greatness.