Film This Chick Stuff! Part One: A Call for Aid
- Thread starter MovieBob
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Azumanga Daioh.
I know it is "technically" a shonen series (Shonen being a Japanese term that means directed at a male audience) but out of the entire cast, there are only 3 named male characters, and only one of them is a human*. The entire rest of the series is focused on girls, in a way that is accessible to all audiences. The only real problem is that it wasn't a very long manga and even the anime only had enough material to fill a single season, so adapting it further might be difficult. (although, *hint hint*, there are 3 chapters of the manga released about a year ago that weren't adapted into the anime. Just saying.)
*EDIT: For clarification, of the other 2, one is a dog, and the other is a cat.
**EDIT^2: There's also a (presumably) male cat (thing) that shows up from time to time, that may or may not be the father of one of the characters.
I know it is "technically" a shonen series (Shonen being a Japanese term that means directed at a male audience) but out of the entire cast, there are only 3 named male characters, and only one of them is a human*. The entire rest of the series is focused on girls, in a way that is accessible to all audiences. The only real problem is that it wasn't a very long manga and even the anime only had enough material to fill a single season, so adapting it further might be difficult. (although, *hint hint*, there are 3 chapters of the manga released about a year ago that weren't adapted into the anime. Just saying.)
*EDIT: For clarification, of the other 2, one is a dog, and the other is a cat.
**EDIT^2: There's also a (presumably) male cat (thing) that shows up from time to time, that may or may not be the father of one of the characters.
I don't know how much I can say, I was also one of the girls who always did the boys stuff, I always ditched barbie dolls for videogames and always insisted on having the boys Happy Meals at McDonalds. But when I was growing up the girl things were Powerpuff Girls, Sailor Moon, Barbie, My Little Pony, Polly Pocket and Beanie Babies. Polly Pocket was quite popular back then, it was a lot different to the new Polly Pocket.
I'll deffinately be interested in what come up next week in your article. But I don't think there'll be much to be honest, girls toys of that age range and era seem to be mostly just negative female gender stereotypes. For instance a Barbie movie wouldn't work at all, it would probably fall under so much criticism for giving out an outdated and sexist message to you girls. Of course its the same message already given out by the toys but you bet more people would be angry about it on screen, or at least they should be... maybe it would sell but that would be depressing.
Xena is actually a pretty interesting case of an "unexpected-audience" occurance.Sir John the Net Knight said:
So goes the story, when they (the producers, Sam Raimi, Rob Tapert, etc.) created the show they figured the main appeal would be to horny teenaged boys, so they made it a hard-action show (actually much darker/meaner than Hercules) with almost no overt "femininity" but LOTS of sexuality and kept Xena herself casually-dismissive of men.
After about a season (this was pre-"everyone is online," so fan reaction was slower then) they were supposedly REALLY surprised to find out that the series had developed a HUGE lesbian following, so they "retooled" the central relationships accordingly. They never really "went for it" until the very last shows (though they had plenty of overtly lesbian supporting characters), and then only-subtley, but it was widely hinted and wink-wink'd for pretty much the whole rest of the run.
That's Jem hehe. I miss that show so much. It was my favorite growing up. I always made sure my grandmother recorded it for me so I could watch it after I school. To this day, someone can't mention synergy without me making a Jem reference. If a Jem movie, video game, or whatever came out I would be on it just on blind nostalgia. You probably couldn't even convince me that it sucked, even if it did.Anacortian said:
I should also mention that it's rare that I go a week without someone mentioning Rainbow Brite or Strawberry Shortcake.
I and several of my friends would totally go see a Last Unicorn remake. I was strolling through Wal-Mart, saw that movie and just had to snatch it up.
Oh! And something that should totally get a second run are Popples. I love those little fuzzballs. http://moonprincess.com/popples/
For something a little more modern, I would dig a Totally Spies movie, but the way the show ended doesn't really leave any room for continuation, so I wonder how that could be approached.
Winx Club was cute, but I don't see any room to make that into anything more than a straight up kids movie.
Well, given that I'm the one who put She-Ra on the second page of your article, Bob, you can probably guess what I watched as a kid. As for toys, I had Weebles and Tree Tots and effing loved my Fisher Price castle, but nobody's going to make a movie out of any of those. The first movies I really embraced were Hangar 18, Raiders of the Lost Ark, and Star Wars, and the tv shows I watched were Dungeons & Dragons and The Smurfs.
There wasn't any good geek stuff for girls when I was young, because girls weren't allowed to be geeks. God help you if you liked "boy things" like slot cars and science. I did have a Barbie, and Fashion Plates, but I read a lot of Choose Your Own Adventure and Encyclopedia Brown. Nothing very movie-worthy there.
There wasn't any good geek stuff for girls when I was young, because girls weren't allowed to be geeks. God help you if you liked "boy things" like slot cars and science. I did have a Barbie, and Fashion Plates, but I read a lot of Choose Your Own Adventure and Encyclopedia Brown. Nothing very movie-worthy there.
OK, I was a mid-80s boy who was into G.I. Joe, Transformers and He-Man hardcore, and transitioned into a fan of James Bond and the various 80s action stars (Der Governator, Stallone, Seagal, etc.). But along the way I became a fan of She-Ra and Jem.
The latter I found superior to its originating Spear Counterpart, for much the same reason I ended up liking Xena over Hercules. Both She-Ra and Xena were former villains who turned a new leaf, and spent the rest of their series redeeming themselves through heroics. In She-Ra's case, it was as the underdog. In He-Man's series, the good guys were clearly in charge of the place, and Skeletor and his goons were miscreants who occasionally showed up to try and overthrown the social order, but were always put down by He-Man & Co. While on She-Ra, the Horde ran Etheria as a police state, and she was an important part of the resistance. Maybe it was because Star Wars was still very fresh in everyone's mind, but I preferred the heroic rebels over the guys just maintaining the status quo.
(As an aside, has anyone ever noticed that being the heroic dissidents to an oppressive authority is one of the few times good, heroic and honourable characters are shown to be proactive? While in settings where society is portrayed as "good" and the villains as the occasional external threat, the heroes only ever react to the villains' plans? This might be one of the reasons I never really got into superhero comics.)
Jem was another property I'm surprised has never really been brought back (they bring back My Little Pony but not Jem?). Although much was made of the Clark Kent-style "love triangle" between Jem, Jerica and Rio, it was never an overwhelming part of any episode, and allowed to be a long-term plot complication (which was practically unheard of in 80s cartoons). And so much was going on in that series, from backroom corporate intrigue, to trampled egos, high fashion, vicious musical feuds that gave Tupac-Biggie a run for their money. The world of Jem is a place where women have a lot of power and personal agency while still thoroughly enmeshed in stereotypically feminine pursuits, e.g. pop music, high fashion, romance, traditional maternal roles. You'd think this would be a home run. Surely there's something here for the Hannah Montana crowd that's better than Hannah Montana?
The latter I found superior to its originating Spear Counterpart, for much the same reason I ended up liking Xena over Hercules. Both She-Ra and Xena were former villains who turned a new leaf, and spent the rest of their series redeeming themselves through heroics. In She-Ra's case, it was as the underdog. In He-Man's series, the good guys were clearly in charge of the place, and Skeletor and his goons were miscreants who occasionally showed up to try and overthrown the social order, but were always put down by He-Man & Co. While on She-Ra, the Horde ran Etheria as a police state, and she was an important part of the resistance. Maybe it was because Star Wars was still very fresh in everyone's mind, but I preferred the heroic rebels over the guys just maintaining the status quo.
(As an aside, has anyone ever noticed that being the heroic dissidents to an oppressive authority is one of the few times good, heroic and honourable characters are shown to be proactive? While in settings where society is portrayed as "good" and the villains as the occasional external threat, the heroes only ever react to the villains' plans? This might be one of the reasons I never really got into superhero comics.)
Jem was another property I'm surprised has never really been brought back (they bring back My Little Pony but not Jem?). Although much was made of the Clark Kent-style "love triangle" between Jem, Jerica and Rio, it was never an overwhelming part of any episode, and allowed to be a long-term plot complication (which was practically unheard of in 80s cartoons). And so much was going on in that series, from backroom corporate intrigue, to trampled egos, high fashion, vicious musical feuds that gave Tupac-Biggie a run for their money. The world of Jem is a place where women have a lot of power and personal agency while still thoroughly enmeshed in stereotypically feminine pursuits, e.g. pop music, high fashion, romance, traditional maternal roles. You'd think this would be a home run. Surely there's something here for the Hannah Montana crowd that's better than Hannah Montana?
Isn't that your premise right there? Rocker has special powers to manipulate light. Bad(tm) happens. Rocker realizes she can use her power to help, and plot goes from there.Sir John the Net Knight said:
As has already been said, I think the biggest problem is so many of the girls' toys tend to either lack any sort of conflict to be made into a mature premise, or simply are based on the childhood fantasies that don't age well.
They did. The origin story was made into a movie and was even released in theaters (I think). Although you are certainly on to something there. Make a movie about what they're doing now. Hm...Grievous222 said:
My suggestion: SAILOR MOON! That was geared toward girls, right? I know I got picked on for watching it. But they did Dragon Ball Z, and that was a disaster, so maybe this isn't such a good idea. Still, I stand by it.
I'm sorry, Bob, but I think you're out of luck. I'm not so sure the big screen is an apt place to embrace any sort of female-oriented nostalgic franchise. The problem definitely lies in the substance of "the chick stuff". Don't get me wrong, the substance in most boy stuff was nothing more than billowing candy floss, but at least Michael Bay had something to work with when he made Transformers. It wasn't good, but it should have been easily translatable.
Explosions in the cartoon? Check. Put 'em in the movie.
Giant fucking robots from space in the cartoon? Check. Put 'em in the movie.
Sweet vehicles in the cartoon? Check. Put 'em in the movie.
Stupid love story between high school kids? No, but we'll throw that in for good measure, JUST SO THE GIRLS HAVE SOMETHING TO CARE ABOUT.
There lies a different problem. They really do TRY to make girls care about nostalgic boy-franchise movie adaptations. They don't try hard, and they ultimately fail (seriously, how many females here gave a shit about anything that happened in G.I. Joe?), but there is some element of trying to fit in some "substance" for the ladies.
Is there anything you could possibly put in My Little Pony that I would care about? Or the Care Bears? Strawberry Shortcake? Cabbage Patch Kids? Jem? Doubtful. Why? There aren't any explosions, guns, or sword fights. I'm not saying that I need those things in all of my movies for the movies to be enjoyable, but that's all any 8-year-old boy cares about, it's all that the cartoons of my youth reflected, and it better damn well translate to the screen exactly so.
What someone needs to do is quit trying to draw the gender-line between the girl stuff and boy stuff and translating them exactly, and try to make them enjoyable for everyone. It's hard, I know, but it's totally possible...through COMEDY. Action and romance usually follow strict gender-lines, but comedy doesn't. Everybody likes to laugh, and both guys and girls with thick enough skin can laugh at the same jokes.
They did this with Josie and the Pussycats (female-oriented show of the bygone era) with some mixed success. I'm pretty sure the film was a flop, but I found it quite enjoyable. Because it was FUNNY. It had jokes that EVERYBODY could laugh at, and the romance was more of a subplot than anything else. The subject matter didn't follow gender lines (for the most part), and I thought they did a great job at making some jokes and throwing in lots of visual humor.
There lies your solution.
Quit making gender-films, and turn old shit into COMEDIES. Imagine how much larger an audience could be reached by making them all laugh...
Explosions in the cartoon? Check. Put 'em in the movie.
Giant fucking robots from space in the cartoon? Check. Put 'em in the movie.
Sweet vehicles in the cartoon? Check. Put 'em in the movie.
Stupid love story between high school kids? No, but we'll throw that in for good measure, JUST SO THE GIRLS HAVE SOMETHING TO CARE ABOUT.
There lies a different problem. They really do TRY to make girls care about nostalgic boy-franchise movie adaptations. They don't try hard, and they ultimately fail (seriously, how many females here gave a shit about anything that happened in G.I. Joe?), but there is some element of trying to fit in some "substance" for the ladies.
Is there anything you could possibly put in My Little Pony that I would care about? Or the Care Bears? Strawberry Shortcake? Cabbage Patch Kids? Jem? Doubtful. Why? There aren't any explosions, guns, or sword fights. I'm not saying that I need those things in all of my movies for the movies to be enjoyable, but that's all any 8-year-old boy cares about, it's all that the cartoons of my youth reflected, and it better damn well translate to the screen exactly so.
What someone needs to do is quit trying to draw the gender-line between the girl stuff and boy stuff and translating them exactly, and try to make them enjoyable for everyone. It's hard, I know, but it's totally possible...through COMEDY. Action and romance usually follow strict gender-lines, but comedy doesn't. Everybody likes to laugh, and both guys and girls with thick enough skin can laugh at the same jokes.
They did this with Josie and the Pussycats (female-oriented show of the bygone era) with some mixed success. I'm pretty sure the film was a flop, but I found it quite enjoyable. Because it was FUNNY. It had jokes that EVERYBODY could laugh at, and the romance was more of a subplot than anything else. The subject matter didn't follow gender lines (for the most part), and I thought they did a great job at making some jokes and throwing in lots of visual humor.
There lies your solution.
Quit making gender-films, and turn old shit into COMEDIES. Imagine how much larger an audience could be reached by making them all laugh...
I was and 80's child along with my twin sisters who are a little over a year older then me. At an early age, if I wanted to play with them, they would essentially make me use their toys. Based on their toys compared to mine, I feel the following toys are a good representation of what was marketed towards girls:
-My Little Pony
-Rainbow Bright
-Jem
-Pound Puppies
-Cabbage Patch dolls
-Popples
-Shera
-Strawberry Shortcake
-Berenstain Bears
-Barbies
-Glow Worms
-Care Bears
-Keypers
-Wuzzles
-Chubbles
-American Girl Dolls
-Kid Sister
-Hungry Hungry Hippos (What? There was a pink one..)
I was subjugated to playland torture when I was young. Although my payback came in the form of a G.I. Joe, Star Wars action figure, and Army men coalition that resulted in an epic scene depicting the decapitation of hundreds of Barbies. I laugh when I think of the screams heard when they entered their room on that particular afternoon.
-My Little Pony
-Rainbow Bright
-Jem
-Pound Puppies
-Cabbage Patch dolls
-Popples
-Shera
-Strawberry Shortcake
-Berenstain Bears
-Barbies
-Glow Worms
-Care Bears
-Keypers
-Wuzzles
-Chubbles
-American Girl Dolls
-Kid Sister
-Hungry Hungry Hippos (What? There was a pink one..)
I was subjugated to playland torture when I was young. Although my payback came in the form of a G.I. Joe, Star Wars action figure, and Army men coalition that resulted in an epic scene depicting the decapitation of hundreds of Barbies. I laugh when I think of the screams heard when they entered their room on that particular afternoon.
Seems that most of the comments say the same thing: girl toys were not movie-worthy. I think the problem is that they simply pandered to the more girly desires, which didn't go much beyond making something cute and frilly. Naturally, they made money because those desires do exist, but it underestimated the market. With G.I. Joe, you can make a halfway entertaining action flick, same with Transformers. I mean, that's just soldiers and giant robots, which are blockbuster material even without the name.
But what is Strawberry Shortcake beyond her name and brand? Just some girl? She smells good? Same goes for Barbie, she's just some chick without the name. To make a good movie with those, you'd basically be coming up with an entirely new IP, in which case you might as well just drop the name. Isn't any movie about a fashion-obsessed girl already as far as a 'Barbie' movie could go?
But what is Strawberry Shortcake beyond her name and brand? Just some girl? She smells good? Same goes for Barbie, she's just some chick without the name. To make a good movie with those, you'd basically be coming up with an entirely new IP, in which case you might as well just drop the name. Isn't any movie about a fashion-obsessed girl already as far as a 'Barbie' movie could go?
This, exactly. Nowhere for the properties to go, really.movienut said:
This too, definitely. From the outset we're looking at an imbalance in how the different types of films are perceived. Hollywood's best bet is to just incorporate feminine sensibilities into story and character development, while still providing the meaty action we love. A specifically feminine film is excluding a large potential audience.Whargarble said:
Um...Bob, lack of research isn't exactly something you should be proud of.
/pointless university student bitching (what, I like people to actually INFORM themselves before they start making claims)
As a man who used to watch Gilmore Girls and loved it, I hold no judgement against people embracing media directed at both genders.
Please, someone make a Baby Laughalot movie:
She's like a Great Old One, the sight of her drives people mad.
/pointless university student bitching (what, I like people to actually INFORM themselves before they start making claims)
As a man who used to watch Gilmore Girls and loved it, I hold no judgement against people embracing media directed at both genders.
Please, someone make a Baby Laughalot movie:
She's like a Great Old One, the sight of her drives people mad.
Thank you for remembering Mighty Max. Was nice to see someone besides me remembers them.
Now I think the main reason why there is more guy toys than girl toys being made into movies and such goes back to the Feminist movement. Of women wanting to be treated like a man, and men not wanting to be treated like a woman.(Yes I know this is a bit offensive but it is in the purpose of a point.) For guy toys all they had to do to include the female audience was to have a girl character. Didn't matter if the only difference was the Y and there was an inclusion of the female audience. My sister when younger had a Polly Pocket but would more often play with me and my Mighty Max toy because she could be Bee since the only difference was hat color.(Max being blue while Bee was pink)
There was times when I did play with her and her Barbie but I would have Picard or some other toy I own. This was because there is only Ken as the only male character(there may have been others I have no idea). There was the idolised version of a dream guy. Other than that the guys were boxed out of girls toys. Which a lot of things still towards the female persuasion without including the male audience. Now a lot of male target shows like SWAT Kats did included the female audience(or atleast tried) with adding female character Lieutenant Felina Feral.
Now it is not to say all female targeted shows fall this way since Pepper Ann(the female equalivant to Doug I believe) a great female focused show worked outside the box of what a girl should be much like Barbie. It wasn't till going outside of the same old same that you get with Carrius Explains it All of the same old same old of a underclass (see loser, unpopular, not with the cool kids, ect) girl that wants to be the upperclass (see popular, cool, ect) girl.
A lot of times even if it isn't a lot of exectives of the show wants to make it. Secret World of Alex Mac for example. Which is done to get it appeal to more girls they will gut out what makes it good. Turing the main character into the Barbie girl which will often alienate any of the male crowd or the female crowd that were there be cause the character was intresting.
Where the best shows that do have females in it aren't female central shows, but gender nuteral shows. Tiny Toon Adventures, Animaniacs, Beetlejuice, Recess, Where on Earth Is Carmen Sandiego?, and Big Wolf on Campus(and ect but stopped before becoming a list of shows I like). Where it doesn't matter if the character was male or female they were both just characters would you find the best male as well as female characters.
Any show that is away from the idea of making a boys show or a girl show ends up being just a show where characters are able to exsit.
Now I think the main reason why there is more guy toys than girl toys being made into movies and such goes back to the Feminist movement. Of women wanting to be treated like a man, and men not wanting to be treated like a woman.(Yes I know this is a bit offensive but it is in the purpose of a point.) For guy toys all they had to do to include the female audience was to have a girl character. Didn't matter if the only difference was the Y and there was an inclusion of the female audience. My sister when younger had a Polly Pocket but would more often play with me and my Mighty Max toy because she could be Bee since the only difference was hat color.(Max being blue while Bee was pink)
There was times when I did play with her and her Barbie but I would have Picard or some other toy I own. This was because there is only Ken as the only male character(there may have been others I have no idea). There was the idolised version of a dream guy. Other than that the guys were boxed out of girls toys. Which a lot of things still towards the female persuasion without including the male audience. Now a lot of male target shows like SWAT Kats did included the female audience(or atleast tried) with adding female character Lieutenant Felina Feral.
Now it is not to say all female targeted shows fall this way since Pepper Ann(the female equalivant to Doug I believe) a great female focused show worked outside the box of what a girl should be much like Barbie. It wasn't till going outside of the same old same that you get with Carrius Explains it All of the same old same old of a underclass (see loser, unpopular, not with the cool kids, ect) girl that wants to be the upperclass (see popular, cool, ect) girl.
A lot of times even if it isn't a lot of exectives of the show wants to make it. Secret World of Alex Mac for example. Which is done to get it appeal to more girls they will gut out what makes it good. Turing the main character into the Barbie girl which will often alienate any of the male crowd or the female crowd that were there be cause the character was intresting.
Where the best shows that do have females in it aren't female central shows, but gender nuteral shows. Tiny Toon Adventures, Animaniacs, Beetlejuice, Recess, Where on Earth Is Carmen Sandiego?, and Big Wolf on Campus(and ect but stopped before becoming a list of shows I like). Where it doesn't matter if the character was male or female they were both just characters would you find the best male as well as female characters.
Any show that is away from the idea of making a boys show or a girl show ends up being just a show where characters are able to exsit.