Final Fantasy 16

[Old_Hunter_77]

Alright y'all, let's get this hype train going.


I did not imagine I'd fall victim to FF hype considering my own history with the franchise is extremely casual. The only FF games I actually played with any attention (and to completion) are 8- during a very weird period in my life where I had been away from games then for some reason got into that one then stopped gaming for like 7 years or something- and 7 remake. This means that even though I was a Nintendo boy, I wasn't playing the originals as that franchise just wasn't what me and my friends were into at the time, nor did I take part in the FF7 craze. 14 has intrigued me but I don't have the heart to get involved in a MMORPG and 15 just looked lame.

More importantly the franchise to me represents two things that are a barrier for me to get into a game:
1- Turn-based combat. Now I'm not saying I absolutely hate it, I just don't have patience to sit around and watch characters do moves and whatever. It's ok at times though honestly I think the last turn based games I beat were the South Park ones.
2- Weeb s***t. JRPG, anime, whatever you wanna call it. Porny girl children and god-like teenagers and doll-faced idiots yelling the names of the moves and waifus and all that crap- I'm a 45 yr old white American man with an office job and a wife, c'mon man I can't be all about that lol.

Again that's not to say that these things are absolute turn-offs, they are just things I would have to overcome to get into a game. And watching SkillUp's video, the message I got is: don't worry, Old_Hunter_77, we got you.

First and foremost, it's not turn-based, it's actually fun action combat. Yes I know lots of people like turn-based and that's fine, I'm just saying that for ME this change immediately makes me actually interested. Honestly so much of it reminded me of Bayonetta, where you get a slow-down bonus for dodge timing and occasionally you turn into a monster and such.
Then the whole epic story with factions and geopolitics makes it feel a little Dragon Age-y, another franchise I have a lot of mixed feeling about, with its world-building being its strongest aspect. That is exactly the kind of thing that can help me get past the anime tropes and aesthetic.

So Bayonetta fighting in a Dragon Age world? Hell yeah, baby.

Also, it's going to be a PS5 exclusive, at least for a little while. Now I am not defending exclusivity by any means- certainly we all likely agree that people should be able to play all the games on all the things as much as possible. But as a PS5 owner, it suggests that there is a likelier chance than not that this thing will work good on my machine. As always I will wait for reviews and patches but it just makes it more promising for me.

tl;dr is everything looks like they tailor-made this game to make me personally actually give a crap about a FF game. I never asked for it and it sucks for those that it disappoints (PC/Xbox folks; FF turn-based loyalists).

 

[BrawlMan]

We have a dedicated FF thread for the entire franchise, but okay.

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[BrawlMan]

First and foremost, it's not turn-based, it's actually fun action combat. Yes I know lots of people like turn-based and that's fine, I'm just saying that for ME this change immediately makes me actually interested. Honestly so much of it reminded me of Bayonetta, where you get a slow-down bonus for dodge timing and occasionally you turn into a monster and such.

Don't forget, the combat designer of DMC5 is the combat director, so it makes sense there would be a risk/reward system in place.

Then the whole epic story with factions and geopolitics makes it feel a little Dragon Age-y, another franchise I have a lot of mixed feeling about, with its world-building being its strongest aspect. That is exactly the kind of thing that can help me get past the anime tropes and aesthetic.

They're still taking from anime, but it's mainly Berserk. An anime/manga with a lot of Western Medieval Dark Fantasy influences. Also, you won't believe how much Japanese media steels from Berserk on a daily basis.

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So Bayonetta fighting in a Dragon Age world? Hell yeah, baby.

And Devil May Cry.

 

[Old_Hunter_77]

While I'm certainly not knowledgable about Berserk, I am aware that it's a major inspiration for Dark Souls, a franchise I'm obviously incredibly familiar with, so probably my brain is already Berserked-up without me realizing it.

 

[BrawlMan]

so probably my brain is already Berserked-up without me realizing it.

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[hanselthecaretaker]

We have a dedicated FF thread for the entire franchise, but okay.

Wait, other than the retrospective one?

 

[BrawlMan]

Wait, other than the retrospective one?

That's the one I'm referring to. Yeah, it's a retrospective, but it might as well just be a Final Fantasy thread for the entire franchise at this point. Critical definitely doesn't have a problem with it.

 

[CriticalGaming]

That's the one I'm referring to. Yeah, it's a retrospective, but it might as well just be a Final Fantasy thread for the entire franchise at this point. Critical definitely doesn't have a problem with it.

I also don't have a problem with a FF16 thread that can focus specfically on the new title instead of being buried pages deep in another thread. 16 having it's own thread makes sense in that regard.

 

[Silvanus]

First and foremost, it's not turn-based, it's actually fun action combat. Yes I know lots of people like turn-based and that's fine, I'm just saying that for ME this change immediately makes me actually interested.

That ain't new; Final Fantasy hasn't been turn-based since X-2.

 

[CriticalGaming]

That ain't new; Final Fantasy hasn't been turn-based since X-2.

You could debate that it hasn't been turn based since FF3, because 4 was where they started doing ATB. The only exception after that was FFX which went back to pure turn-based.

People are annoyed by the action combat shown off, but FF has never really been a turn-based system except very early where the technology forced them to be.

One thing I wanted to point out about SKillUP's video was the part where Yoshi-P was annoyed by Japanese RPG games being called JRPG's. I can see where he is coming from because they are just making RPG games and the Japanese part of it doesn't really make sense. But when you break down the differences there are some very clear defining features between Western RPG's and JRPGs, that i think makes them worth some sort of classification difference.

The easiest difference to point out is that in a Western RPG, the main character is usually the player. Either through a player made character like in SKyrim or through a pre-made but still varying character like Commander Shepard. Typically the story in Western Games revolves around the player, and the player's choices. Dialog options and freedom are bigger things in the West (insert USA and "freedom" joke here).

Meanwhile in a JRPG the story is much more defined and characters are set in stone from the beginning. There is usually very little that the player can do to influence the story and specticle is a bigger importance.

There are other things like more grindy aspects that JRPG's tend to field.

Bottom line is that the way Japan makes RPG's is very distinct from any other development nation in the world, thus the reason why we've labeled them as "jRPG's" for so long, as there is a drastic difference in experience.

 

[BrawlMan]

Dialog options and freedom are bigger things in the West (insert USA and "freedom" joke here).

You won't believe how many hardcore WRPGs nuts were spouting "FREEEDUMB!", unironically during any WRPG vs JRPG debate in the early Escapist forum days.

 

[Old_Hunter_77]

You could debate that it hasn't been turn based since FF3, because 4 was where they started doing ATB. The only exception after that was FFX which went back to pure turn-based.

People are annoyed by the action combat shown off, but FF has never really been a turn-based system except very early where the technology forced them to be.

One thing I wanted to point out about SKillUP's video was the part where Yoshi-P was annoyed by Japanese RPG games being called JRPG's. I can see where he is coming from because they are just making RPG games and the Japanese part of it doesn't really make sense. But when you break down the differences there are some very clear defining features between Western RPG's and JRPGs, that i think makes them worth some sort of classification difference.

The easiest difference to point out is that in a Western RPG, the main character is usually the player. Either through a player made character like in SKyrim or through a pre-made but still varying character like Commander Shepard. Typically the story in Western Games revolves around the player, and the player's choices. Dialog options and freedom are bigger things in the West (insert USA and "freedom" joke here).

Meanwhile in a JRPG the story is much more defined and characters are set in stone from the beginning. There is usually very little that the player can do to influence the story and specticle is a bigger importance.

There are other things like more grindy aspects that JRPG's tend to field.

Bottom line is that the way Japan makes RPG's is very distinct from any other development nation in the world, thus the reason why we've labeled them as "jRPG's" for so long, as there is a drastic difference in experience.

ATB is just one kind of turn-based combat to me. We don't need to get into semantics thing but it's why I associated "turn-based" with the series.
As for the JRPG thing... yeah, that, ok whatever. As SkillUp points out, Dark Souls is an RPG made in Japan but it's not a JRPG, so there are definitely elements that separate them. As with all genre names, it's just to establish a general idea when describing something.
Yoshi-P is obviously going to feel how he wants about terms but I wonder how common that is amongst Japanese game devs. Hmm all of this is inspiring a "hot take" thread post...

 

[Elvis Starburst]

I'm a 45 yr old white American man with an office job and a wife, c'mon man I can't be all about that lol.

I mean, you totally could. I wouldn't say any of those mean you can't. (And I say 'you' in a broad spectrum sense, not directly and specifically you, cause you're not into the stuff you mentioned)

OT, I saw some gameplay, and I do like the look of the normal combat. I liked it in what little I played of 15, and I think it looks like it'll be fun in the 7 remake whenever I eventually get to it in life. It's nice to see it again here.
However, I'm not really into the Icon vs Icon battles from what I've seen of them so far. Or at least, I dunno how I feel about seeing them so early in the game

 

[Silvanus]

You could debate that it hasn't been turn based since FF3, because 4 was where they started doing ATB. The only exception after that was FFX which went back to pure turn-based.

I debated whether to delve into ATB vs turn-based, and kinda decided that FFX and FFX-2 made my statement true anyway.

 

[CriticalGaming]

I debated whether to delve into ATB vs turn-based, and kinda decided that FFX and FFX-2 made my statement true anyway.

My point was to suggest that Final Fantasy as a series generally was always trying to lean and push more towards an action style battle system. Especially when you lok at other Turn based options like everything Shin Megami Tensei does, Bravely Default, Octopath Traveler, Dragon Quest, all of these games have stuck to a strictly turn-based system without fail, no ATB, no action moves, no compromises.

 

[09philj]

I like turn based combat but I've never gotten along with any of the FF implementations of it, particularly ATB which I think is a real worst of both worlds system. XII felt alright to me but also felt hamstrung by the game's stingy progression. XV's combat was almost good but still felt the need to add a clunky UI menu which didn't really fit.

 

[XsjadoBlaydette]

Having hated the latest few games incrementally less each as they go on, this does seduce a little curiosity from the pattern-trusting part of the consciousness.

 

[BrawlMan]

XV's combat was almost good but still felt the need to add a clunky UI menu which didn't really fit.

XV's combat was just a worst version of KH's combat.

 

[Silvanus]

My point was to suggest that Final Fantasy as a series generally was always trying to lean and push more towards an action style battle system. Especially when you lok at other Turn based options like everything Shin Megami Tensei does, Bravely Default, Octopath Traveler, Dragon Quest, all of these games have stuck to a strictly turn-based system without fail, no ATB, no action moves, no compromises.

Well sure, but I'd also argue that both Bravely Default and Octopath Traveler use that turn-based system specifically to evoke traditional Square/Squenix battle systems from FF and Chrono Trigger classics.

ATB is more active, but nonetheless has more in common with turn based than action combat.

((Edit: also I wanna clarify that I fucking love FF, but most of all Turn based. My favourite FF is 9 but the battle system of 10 is my jam and I would love the return. Octopath Traveler is fantastic... but I'd love the return of that combat system with the FF mythos))

 

[BrawlMan]

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