Final Fantasy IX....What am I missing?

[Elegy of Fools]

Not to mention the "Oh by the way I'm the REAL villain" last minute bait and switch.

That devalued Kuja so much. I hated that.

I never understood this whole 'Necron WTF' thing, as even to my 12 year old self, it seemed kinda clear what happened:

Spoiler

Kuja's main goal in the final part of the game is to wipe out the universe by destroying the crystal at its heart, right? Your party finds him in the crystal world, and tries to stop him, right? After a lengthy battle, Kuja then pulls out his last card and casts Ultima. Your party gets wiped out and by implication so does the crystal.

The next thing you know, your party is at the gates of oblivion, and this massive angel thing is telling you he's about to wipe out the universe. Because, y'know, Kuja already destroyed the crystal, so universal destruction is kind of the next jumping point. Necron is the angel of death and destruction, and the destruction of the crystal is the catalyst that causes him to come out and attempt to destroy everything.

Necron's just FFIX's version of the Four Horsemen Of The Apocalypse, that's all. Crystal done got destroyed, and he's the guy who's got to end the universe as a result.

Oh, I understood it, to be certain, and the hints were present, albeit very subtle, throughout the game that something big that controlled existence itself was involved. I was simply disappointed with how it was handled. That moment sort of devalued Kuja's culminating villainy - but that was the point.

I recently did a full play through of the title for the first time in a long time; and I was able to look at and understand things with more clarity than I did when I was younger.

I suppose the best way to look at it is Necron would not have appeared without Kuja's interference, and in that regard is still of his "influence." Looking at it that way actually makes everything even better than before.

Part of the issue I have with the fight is the "break" that's caused. You're riding high, pumped up on an awesome fight with Kuja, and then everything slows down, and the tone just becomes bleak -- you feel like you're not even supposed to win the fight. But I guess in writing this, I've been afforded more understanding -- that would pretty much be the whole theme of the fight and it took me until now to realize that I misinterpreted the fantastic use of tone and music to paint the fight in a negative way.

Touche' FFIX, Touche'

 

[newwiseman]

I think 9 was the best of the PSX Final Fantasy games. 7's graphics were horrible, 8's story was horrible, but 9 had a decent story, decent graphics, and more than anything else a world that wasn't contradictory.

In 7 one global corporation was the government and the world was treated by an alien/human splice baby who fell in a hole. 8 has the best start, and overall art, but the magic system was horrid and the world was a joke, complete with a space faring civilization on their own continent that is relatively unknown to the rest of the world.

9's threat was from another world entirely, spear headed by being that just didn't want to die and saw becoming a super being as the only way out. It also had an excellent training and leveling system, combined with ABS combat that was perfected, and then forgotten, after Chrono Trigger. 9's final boss fight was BS though.

 

[major_chaos]

While its far from the only reason I love IX, I think what allowed me to get into it was that unlike most other 3d FF games the protagonist is neither teeth gratingly annoying (X, X-2, XIII-2, XII IIRC but its been so long I could be remembering wrong) or an joyless brooding git (VII, VIII, XIII)

 

[busterkeatonrules]

Lots of hate on Necron here. For the record, he made perfect sense to me: The gang have finally beaten Kuja, but the battle has taken them all so close to total obliteration that they actually have to fight the very concept of Oblivion itself before they get to go home. Epic.

On topic: Da Schwartz has a very good point - upon release, there were a lot of new FF fans whose only former experience with the series was VII and VIII. This would naturally make the game stand out considerably, especially among those who hated VIII. (Like I did).

However, I'm pretty sure IX would have blown me away even if I hadn't played the two previous games. I just love that low-tech setting, with its red-tiled roofs and green grass, its blimp-like airships and clockwork machinery. It's like playing through a Studio Ghibli movie!
[small]OK, I haven't tried Ni No Kuni yet. My current top priority is Sly 4.[/small]



Also:

Nine had... well, this

I'm a black waltz Mother****** watch as I am all awesome and better than you... Vivi what are you doing? Vivi, VIVI STAHP!!!

Just one of my loved moments in the game

Best cutscene EVER. And quite possibly the best ever description of it! Respect.

 

[Snownine]

Not to mention the "Oh by the way I'm the REAL villain" last minute bait and switch.

That devalued Kuja so much. I hated that.

I never understood this whole 'Necron WTF' thing, as even to my 12 year old self, it seemed kinda clear what happened:

Spoiler

Kuja's main goal in the final part of the game is to wipe out the universe by destroying the crystal at its heart, right? Your party finds him in the crystal world, and tries to stop him, right? After a lengthy battle, Kuja then pulls out his last card and casts Ultima. Your party gets wiped out and by implication so does the crystal.

The next thing you know, your party is at the gates of oblivion, and this massive angel thing is telling you he's about to wipe out the universe. Because, y'know, Kuja already destroyed the crystal, so universal destruction is kind of the next jumping point. Necron is the angel of death and destruction, and the destruction of the crystal is the catalyst that causes him to come out and attempt to destroy everything.

Necron's just FFIX's version of the Four Horsemen Of The Apocalypse, that's all. Crystal done got destroyed, and he's the guy who's got to end the universe as a result.

I don't think the crystal was destroyed, if it was Gaia would have died. Necron was summoned from the hatred of Kuja and the violence occurring on the world at that time. Necron would have destroyed all life in the universe whereas destroying the crystal would have just killed everyone on Gaia. Gaia would have been left as a dying world just as Terra had when it's crystal began to weaken, which is why they were trying to fuse their crystal with Gaia's crystal.

 

[go-10]

IX does have a lot of charm, but mostly its for fans of the series, after V the series started to dabble more in the steampunk/futuristic themes so when IX came around with a throw back to the days of old we were all super ecstatic about it. Not to mention Beatrix I can't tell you how many people kept wanting to recruit her, if there's a FF that needs a sequel/prequel (besides VII) its IX, Beatrix needs her own game

 

[AgentLampshade]

I keep getting up to the bit with the frog king then losing interest.

And FFVIII is my favourite of the series. I guess that makes me in the minority of fans.

 

[Lovely Mixture]

Lots of hate on Necron here. For the record, he made perfect sense to me: The gang have finally beaten Kuja, but the battle has taken them all so close to total obliteration that they actually have to fight the very concept of Oblivion itself before they get to go home. Epic.

Indeed, Necron (or Darkness of Eternity as in the original Japanese) makes sense in the story. And he even the ambiguous parts of him just create more discussion.


The problem for most people is that he comes out of nowhere. Personally I don't think it's a very big deal because nearly everything else in the game was explained 100%, but I can understand why people don't like him.

 

[scorptatious]

Not to mention the "Oh by the way I'm the REAL villain" last minute bait and switch.

That devalued Kuja so much. I hated that.

I never understood this whole 'Necron WTF' thing, as even to my 12 year old self, it seemed kinda clear what happened:

Spoiler

Kuja's main goal in the final part of the game is to wipe out the universe by destroying the crystal at its heart, right? Your party finds him in the crystal world, and tries to stop him, right? After a lengthy battle, Kuja then pulls out his last card and casts Ultima. Your party gets wiped out and by implication so does the crystal.

The next thing you know, your party is at the gates of oblivion, and this massive angel thing is telling you he's about to wipe out the universe. Because, y'know, Kuja already destroyed the crystal, so universal destruction is kind of the next jumping point. Necron is the angel of death and destruction, and the destruction of the crystal is the catalyst that causes him to come out and attempt to destroy everything.

Necron's just FFIX's version of the Four Horsemen Of The Apocalypse, that's all. Crystal done got destroyed, and he's the guy who's got to end the universe as a result.

I don't actually hate Necron, in fact I liked the final battle with him. Minus the Grand Cross attack, that either makes or breaks the battle for me. :/

Unfortunately, I could never really think of a good reason for his existance, so I just usually agree with the people who said that he came out of nowhere.

I think you did a pretty good job at describing what the heck he was though.

 

[Elegy of Fools]

Spoiler

Oh, I understood it, to be certain, and the hints were present, albeit very subtle, throughout the game that something big that controlled existence itself was involved. I was simply disappointed with how it was handled. That moment sort of devalued Kuja's culminating villainy - but that was the point.

I recently did a full play through of the title for the first time in a long time; and I was able to look at and understand things with more clarity than I did when I was younger.

I suppose the best way to look at it is Necron would not have appeared without Kuja's interference, and in that regard is still of his "influence." Looking at it that way actually makes everything even better than before.

Part of the issue I have with the fight is the "break" that's caused. You're riding high, pumped up on an awesome fight with Kuja, and then everything slows down, and the tone just becomes bleak -- you feel like you're not even supposed to win the fight. But I guess in writing this, I've been afforded more understanding -- that would pretty much be the whole theme of the fight and it took me until now to realize that I misinterpreted the fantastic use of tone and music to paint the fight in a negative way.

Touche' FFIX, Touche'

See, that for me was part of the genius of the final battle. The entire game is about always having hope, no matter how grim things may look, or how scary they may have become.

Now, I remember the first time I faced Necron. I was 12 years old, and having just come off the back of that battle with Kuja, I felt as you did. My characters were suddenly in this weird oppressive place, there's the sound of wailing and torment and horror, and this giant, huge scary looking dude turns up to beat the shit out of me. I was pretty shitscared. But I think that's how the game wanted me to feel. The characters within the game had all overcome their fears, and the final battle was designed to elicit that same reaction from me, the player. Even if it didn't make the largest amount of sense, it was an incredibly meta move, and tied me the player into identifying with the themes of the game.

I didn't win the battle first time, alas. But I held out hope, gave it a second go, and managed to beat the blue son of a *****. And I felt elated, because this was an enemy who I as a gamer found terrifying in every possible way. Necron looks scary, he has a huge amount of HP, and he's got some absolutely devastating attacks. When I managed to defeat him, the elation and joy I felt mirrored the feelings that the characters had already gone through, and I really appreciated that. FFIX is about hope overcoming adversity, and they managed to draw me into that.

Yeah, I never stopped and applied any of my critical thinking or analysis to the fight in that way. The second I did, the genius of it really opens up. Thanks for making me think about it like that, I may well have ignored all the (now that I see them, rather obvious) tone-changes and themes.

I've got an even greater appreciation for 9 now haha.

 

[Epona]

If you're going to go off airships... I'm fairly certain EVERY Final Fantasy game ever made has airships in it. It's sort of like having a "Cid" character. It's a trope of the series. Of ALL the Final Fantasy games to think are overrated, I'm amused you picked 9. But it obviously isn't your type of game, and that's cool.

I just wanted to say I agree with FF9 being incredible. I still prefer 6 as my all time favorite, but 9 is a good second choice. After that it's sort of a tie between FF4 and FF10. Yeah, I know... I enjoyed 10 so sue me. I haven't been able to finish 12 yet, and refuse to play 13 until I finish 12... so I'm lagging behind.

The only things about 9 that are bad are the card game and Chocobo Hot and Cold. Dear God I hated that minigame so much. Amusingly, the card game in FF8 is the only GOOD thing about that game.

Are you talking to me?

About the airships, another poster said that IX was a return to the old airship games. My point was that even the steampunk/sci-fi ones had airships. As for IX being overrated, I think it is but that doesn't mean I don't also think VII and X are overrated too.

You mean the snail paced combat didn't put you to sleep in IX? Those oldschool FF games that IX was trying to emulate were never slow paced like that.

 

[Wolfenbarg]

I'm in the camp who thinks Necron just comes out of nowhere and really devalues the ending. Kuja didn't destroy the crystal, he even admits that he couldn't do it. He had the choice to end all of existence right there or to savor his last few moments of life, and he chose the latter. Necron just appeared because Kuja had the will to do such a thing. That's stupid and nonsensical. If that sequence had just been rewritten as a final battle with Kuja, that would have been very fitting. Instead Necron was a character who was literally just created in the last few minutes.

Anyway, despite that I really love IX, and mostly because of the characters. Most of the more beloved Final Fantasy titles have one or two good characters or heavily focus on a protagonist who can make or break the game. IX on the other hand embraces its ensemble, giving you insights and introspection for all of them. The entire cast is important, whether the scene is to make you smile or shed a tear. They all feel so well defined and strong, and they drive the plot forward very well.

 

[Shoggoth2588]

I'm playing through Final Fantasy 6 and I think I can say that for a lot of people, 9 is to those fans what 6 is to their slightly-older counterparts. There are some similarities to 9 and 6 after all such as learning abilities through equipping things (the they accessories or espers), focusing on characters who specialize on one skill rather than everyone-does-everything (Steiner can't steal, nor can Cyan) and, there are a lot of great character moments. The most important thing though could be the nostalgia goggles. You never forget your first: this statement applies not only to Doctor Who, Zelda Games and your lover but to Final Fantasy titles as well. This is likely why I consider Mystic Quest as a top-5 while most normal people don't consider it at all!

 

[BeeGeenie]

Whenever a new party character is introduced and you get to choose their name, I change Vivi to Vivo.

Spanish for "I Live." It seems to fit his existential crisis story arc well.

Vivi is awesome.

 

[IndomitableSam]

Now I'm sad. I replayed this a few months ago, but stopped at Memoria (for some stupid reason). I was so close to finishing but just stopped, even commenting on how I always do that for replays. I guess I can't emotionally handle the endings? I dunno. I loved Vivi with my soured little teenage heart so much that it was pretty hard to take at the end, so I guess I can't do it again? I dunno. That and all the side quests started to bog me down but if I don't do them all I feel awful.

Never finished VIII, got to the launch (if you know what I mean) part, said 'WTF?' and put it down and never picked it up again.

VII is my favorite, with IV a close second as I was about 6/7 when it came out and, well, Rydia has been a hero of mine ever since.

 

[excalipoor]

"You don't need a reason to help people." - Zidane Tribal
"How do you prove that you exist...? Maybe we don't exist..." - Vivi Ornitier
"Having sworn fealty, must I spend my life in servitude?" - Adelbert Steiner
"To be forgotten is worse than death." - Freya Crescent

Most characters in the game are going through some sort of an existential crisis, Zidane, Vivi and Kuja being prime examples. Terrified of the end of his own life, Kuja goes as far as attempting to destroy all existence. Necron is Reaper logic: to it, the fact that someone would ever do such a thing in the first place is proof that eventually all life will seek death. It's just doing us all a favor, putting us out of our misery. Primordial omnipotent beings are dumb like that. They think they have all the answers.

I don't mind Necron. By the time I reached Memoria, I didn't find Kuja all that threatening of a villain anyway. He's just a guy scared shitless, but that fear of death of his is what brings about the end of everything. Kuja obviously has a change of heart at the very end, but I suppose in a twisted way that just proves Necron's point.

The plot of FFIX has quite a bit of fluff, the battle mechanics are some of the worst in the series, Tetra Master has nothing on Triple Triad (but isn't all that bad either once you get the hang of it), the game has way too many bullshit sidequests that you'll never finish without a guide, and I think Amarant is introduced way too late in the game for me to give a crap. Still, FFIX has a beautifully crafted world, some stunning tearjerker moments, amazing presentation, and in my opinion, the absolute best ending to any game in the series. Bonus points if you've played the previous entries in the series and recognize the countless references in the game.

If someone didn't like FFIX, then I don't know what I could possibly say to change that. While it's not my favorite in the series, much less among my favorite games ever, I'm glad I sat through it. It didn't touch me in any kind of profound way like FFVII and FFVIII did when I first played them, but I love it all the same as a self-contained, balls to the wall high fantasy experience.

"I do what I want! You have problem!?" - Quina Quen explaining the meaning of life.

 

[Jason Sacuta]

Indeed, Necron (or Darkness of Eternity as in the original Japanese) makes sense in the story. And he even the ambiguous parts of him just create more discussion.


The problem for most people is that he comes out of nowhere. Personally I don't think it's a very big deal because nearly everything else in the game was explained 100%, but I can understand why people don't like him.[/quote]

No, not everything was perfectly explained, the plot is very convoluted and zig-zagged.

FF9 for me storyline wise is the worst game in the series, the love story is horrible written and the game pretends that the love story is one of the main focuses when it isn't, the story is FULL of plotholes, some of the characters are obnoxious, and some of them make really stupid decision (especially garnet) and has a really unsympathetic character that the game acts like is sympathetic (kuja). In a top 10 list that lists everything wrong with 9:

10: the trance mode
9: necron
8: the eidolons and Brahne
7:Freya and fratley
6:alexander
5: terra, Garland and zidane's angel of death powers
4: beatrix
3: kuja
2: garnet's disk 1 and 2 actions (returning to Alexandria)
1: zidane and garnet's love story

I won't say all the details because I'm better at explaining this when I'm talking on a video I plan to make, but I'll say some things. The only reason for Necron's existence was for him to serve as a cheap excuse for kuja to try to redeem himself, because kuja completly deserves to redeem himself (being sarcastic), kuja was an unsympathetic monster the whole game and then during terra the game pretty much pulls out of nowhere And forces to make kuja out to be a "tragic and sympathetic" character despite there being no build up before, and the game pretty much started treating kuja like a draco in leather pants (term for character who has his negative traits down played), and NECRON was just something the writers pulled out of their rears as a forced attemped to make kuja atone.


Beatrix is an annoying God-mode Sue who never looses a fight, which is especially annoying because the guy who fights her each time was zidane the guy who was created to be the most powerful person in 9: the shadow the hedgehog/mewtwo of 9. In the final fight with Beatrix; Zidane should have transformed into a more powerful incomplete angel of death trance mode and curb stomp Beatrix and actually have Beatrix loose a fight, there's a bunch of other problems I have with Beatrix but I won't state that here.


And Zidane and Garnet I consider the love story to be the worst done in the final fantasy series, people act like it's so great but I don't understand why, it's supposed to be a spin on the classic peasant princess love story but it's not very well written, there's barely any chemistry between them, Garnet spends more time wangsting about her mother and kingdom than she does focusing on Zidane, let's not even get started on the mute segment (and people think Cloud and Squall are emo). and Zidane barely ever gets upset over what happens to Garnet, personality wise Zidane is a mary-sue, Zidane is WAY too optimistic, Garnet has TOO MUCH angst and zidane has too little, and then there's Garnet's stupid decision during disk 1 and 2, she completely betrays Zidane's trust, stabs him in the back, and abandons him, and end up making the intire beginning of the game (the kidnapping and trip to lindblum) and first several levels of gameplay completely pointless, what kind of thing is that to start off a love story or even put into it? The player is pretty much forced to play through her section of stupidity with an extremely obvious conclusion, you pretty much Hand over the eidolons to the antagonists, and Garnet is responsible for all the city's getting blow up due to her ridiculous behaviour, not to mention leaving a scar on Zidane and Garnet's love story, I consider that to one of the worst moments in the final fantasy series. The game acts like the love story is one of the main focuses, the main musical theme is a love song (melodies of life) that plays consteadly throughout the game and even serves as the world map theme! Yet there's barely ANY focus due to Garnet barely focusing or having chemistry with Zidane aside from random scenes that come out of nowhere and then are immediately made irrelevant and pointless afterwards and never mentioned again.

And honestly Garland should have been the main antagonist he was really interesting and unique with his moral ambiguity and instead he has to play second Fidel to Kuja and Brahne, two really 2d and cliche characters who are overhyped, and personally I think Beatrix should have garnet's adoptive mother, it wouldn't have sent out the unfortinate implication that ugly people are bad. And Kuja shouldn't have been a straight up antagonist but a complex character that was basically a darker version of Zuko, from avater the last air bender.


Both halves of ff9 were pretty badly witten. I think 9 would have been better told as an anime, in fact most of the ff games should be retold as animes. FF9 in my opinion should have been a deconstruction of the nes and snes FF games. You should also check socksmakepeoplesexy's review of the game. And Final Fantasy Whatever's review.

I apologize for the clunky-ness, this was an old comment I made when I was under a lot of stress and frustration, that I copy and pasted, but it mostly sums up my points.

 

[Barbas]

Thread locked against further necromancy.