Final Fantasy VII Remake Trailer Offers First Glimpse of New Combat

Vausch

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Revnak said:
cojo965 said:
So much for "You guys showed us that traditional sells" huh guys?
You showed Nomura nothing. This is not a man who cares about Final Fantasy's traditional game design, and did not care about it back when other directors at Square were still big fans. This is a man who is less inclined to make this a typically paced turn based game than he is to make it a damn musical. Love him or hate him, he hardly speaks for the direction the company as a whole is taking in terms of turn based combat in games.
You mean one-button combat you can play while reading a book?

Actually by the pattern of Final Fantasy XIII, if they did keep the trend then by this game you could just weigh down L3 forward and the battles would play themselves.
 

Dalisclock

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I'm about as excited for it as I was before. As in, kinda. If it's good, I'll buy it. If it's not, that's more money I don't have to spend.
 

omega 616

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Verrik said:
omega 616 said:
Can we fuck off with this half turn based, half action game?

I loved the turn based stuff of FFX (the only FF I've played) 'cos it allowed you to think, turned a typical DMC style game into more a chess match. It was more of a puzzle game than a button masher and I think it's great that you can have an interesting puzzle game ... sure portal was good and other puzzle games do an ok job but a pretty chess, that doesn't look or feel like chess is great

This "active combat" started off with FFX-2 (as far as I know), which is universally thought of as an abortion of a game. Keeping that in mind, why are they still doing this half and half game play?

Am I in minority here? I was always of the opinion that if you want to play an action game you played an action game, God of War, DMC etc but if you want to play the thinking mans game, you throw in a JRPG.
Haha, FF10 was more of a puzzle game? FF10 was easy as pie, a cakewalk! Seriously, every turn based FF game was easy to beat (with the exception of some optional bosses, of course). I've played every FF game, and each of those games storylines could easily be beaten so long as you possessed basic reading skills.

Hell, the majority of regular monster battles and even some boss battles, could be beaten simply by "mashing" the Attack command lol.(While I played FF12 and FF13, I don't remember enough about those games to say whether they were more challenging than older FF games). If I want a turn based JRPG that requires ACTUAL strategy, I'll go play Fire Emblem :p I honestly don't get where this "Older FF games required strategy!" idea comes from...

Also, while a lot of people hated FFX-2, it was because of... pretty much everything OTHER than the combat.

EDIT: Also, also, wouldn't FFX-2's combat system be considered closer to the older FF games battle systems, since it included the ATB gauge, where FFX did not have the ATB gauge?
Like I hinted at in what I wrote, I'm not a huge player of FF games ... Played x and a little bit of 7, both of which were turned based, so I assumed they all were until x-2

Anyway, I never said anything about difficulty. The difficulty could easily be ramped up to improve the combat, at the moment it's all too easy to just mash attack or play pok?mon by attacking using the opposing elemental spell.

The combat in FFX is incredibly easy or incredibly hard, you go from fighting trash random encounters and some easy bosses to pretty harsh difficulty spikes, the crawler, Chocobo eater (don't really die to it but can be pushed off the cliff), Lady yunalesca, Braska's final aeon etc then to insane difficulty spikes like the dark aeons, penance, omega and ultima weapon, Nemesis etc.

I do think by forcing you to use tactics, such as inflicting debuffs (silence etc) and putting buffs (haste) on your own party would make the game WAY more interesting. At the moment all they have done is "people just mash attack anyway, so might as well not be turned based" but if you're going that route just make it another DMC style game
 

Autumnflame

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changes to the battle system dont worry me a great deal,

the abysmal Voice work for it does.

im alittle afraid to play it if the voice acting is so jarringly bad it removes my ability to enjoy it.
 

major_chaos

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Oh I really do hope they massivly overhaul the battle system. ATB was cool way back when, but at this point if I enter battle in a JRPG and see something to the effect of

|----------|
|>Fight -|
| Magic -|
| Item ---|
| Run ----|
|_________|

I instantly clock out because while I might keep playing just for the story I can be relatively positive the gameplay isn't going to engage me at all. And on top of that Final Fantasy has always been one of the worst rote and tactically sterile implementations of a already simplistic base.
That said different does not automatically equal better so while I do hope for a significant mixup (Someone. Use. Parasite Eve. Combat. Damnit.) I'm still only cautiously optimistic. Last time I was blindly optimistic about new combat in a FF game I ended up buying FF XIII for sixty bucks and we all know how that turned out.
 

Random Argument Man

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RelativityMan said:
The only thing that bugs me is Cloud's personality and how he carries himself because...

...as I recall, didn't Cloud have Zack's personality at that point in FF7? Zack is described in Crisis Core as being like a puppy, short attention span and unable to sit still. He would to showboat to the point of recklessness, endangered a mission to play with young Yuffie (and keep her from getting hurt) and desperately wanted to be a hero.

It seems like everything relating to Cloud these days wants to portray Cloud the emo. Which is fine when it's post-Lifestream-dip Cloud or pre-Nibelheim-Incident Cloud, but makes no sense outside of that. Especially when it's the contrast between Zack and Cloud's personalities that makes Cloud's personality shift so drastic.
Cloud's personality was cold and less interested before his big major shake-up in the original game. In fact, Cloud only copied the "I'm a soldier and want to be a mercenary" part and a few of Zack's interest. (Namely, Aerith).

"emo-Cloud" wasn't a thing until Advent Children where he was sad all the time. In fact, Cloud post-Lifestream-dip only had a few reserved amount of guilt and was mostly invested in saving things.

OT: Well, it's FF7, but with more flash.

 

Dalrien

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A lot of people seem to want a shinier version of FF7 and nothing else. I'm glad that isn't the case because I sure wouldn't want the same game, EXCEPT IT'S NOW WRAPPED IN GOLD EMBROIDERY WITH A SILVER TIE!
 

Saltyk

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anthony87 said:
RelativityMan said:
The only thing that bugs me is Cloud's personality and how he carries himself because...

...as I recall, didn't Cloud have Zack's personality at that point in FF7? Zack is described in Crisis Core as being like a puppy, short attention span and unable to sit still. He would to showboat to the point of recklessness, endangered a mission to play with young Yuffie (and keep her from getting hurt) and desperately wanted to be a hero.

It seems like everything relating to Cloud these days wants to portray Cloud the emo. Which is fine when it's post-Lifestream-dip Cloud or pre-Nibelheim-Incident Cloud, but makes no sense outside of that. Especially when it's the contrast between Zack and Cloud's personalities that makes Cloud's personality shift so drastic.
Considering that the only couple of lines that we hear from Cloud in the trailer are damn near the same as what he says in the original FFVII I can't help but think:

"the hell you talking about???

EDIT: Sorry, misread the first line there. As I understand it, Cloud didn't have Zack's personality as such, more like he had memories that were created from a combination of Hojo's experiments and the stories that Zach told to Cloud when they were friends. Personality wise he was always a bit of a moan in FF7.
Pretty much what I was gonna say. The only lines of dialog we had from Cloud in that were perfectly in line with the original game.

Biggs: "Wow, you sure were in SOLDIER all right. Not everyday you see one in a group like AVALANCHE."
Jesse: "Wait. SOLDIER? Aren't they the enemy?"
Biggs: "Whoa, Jesse. He was in SOLDIER. Now he's working for us. Didn't get your name, though."
[insert character's name]
Biggs: "Cloud, huh? Well, I'm-"
Cloud: "I don't care about your names. Once this jobs done and I get my money, I'm out of here."

Barret: "The planet's dying, Cloud."
Cloud: "It has nothing to do with me. I just want to get this job done before security and Robo-guards come."

Barret: "Hey, Cloud. Were there any members of SOLDIER there today?"
Cloud: "None. I'm positive."
Barret: "You seem pretty sure of that."
Cloud: "If there were any SOLDIERS, you wouldn't have made it out alive."

So yeah, Cloud should be a bit arrogant and unconcerned with the others. His voice came off less emo and more disinterested to me, for the record.

anthony87 said:
Saltyk said:
Well, there was a thread in the forum about this already. So, I think I'll be lazy just this once and quote myself here.

Saltyk said:
Yeah, that's about what I expected. Too soon to say that they completely changed it. And it looked like you could control other characters like Barret. It honestly didn't show enough to say for certain how it works. Materia is too important to the story to remove it from the game, so I'm certain that is still in there. It looks like there is a gauge in the corner.

Upon closer inspection, that looks like a Limit gauge. And it seems to slowly build as you attack and to deplete when you aren't. But it seems that once maxed it lets you use some Limit skill. I certainly recognized Barret's Big Shot Limit, but not Cloud's attack. So, yes, I feel confident that it is an Action type system, like in FFXV.

Color me intrigued, though not entirely happy. I wasn't really sure what I wanted from the combat. I'm a huge Final Fantasy fan (especially of VII), but I'm not so childish as to call this crap. I think it could work. Crisis Core was a solid game, for example, and I think XIII could have been okay with some minor tweaks. Looks like they may have learned some lessons, but I wanna see more before I pass my Judgement [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV3KBvtgPjE].

That being said, it looks fucking beautiful. Cloud looks like he might be the classic FFVII Cloud rather than emo Cloud ("I don't care about your politics"). Graphically, it is beautiful and brings Midgar to life. The voice acting seemed okay, though the Wedge voice seemed a little off to me. And I think we saw how they might be doing the whole voice talking to Cloud moments, too. The music felt like a modern version of the classic music, and like it didn't forget it's roots.

Looks like we saw some cut scenes as well as some actual walking around. It occurs to me that the scene of them watching an explosion happens in normal gameplay. I swear I saw Cloud get pushed back slightly there.

I suspect this is an early build. Based on what news I've heard and how this all comes from very early in the game, didn't even show Tifa or Aerith, I'm expecting it will get more polish and probably be released in 2017, around the 20th anniversary.

Oh, and...
And I'll just add that with the still images, I'm able to appreciate the models just a little but more. And I'm really appreciating that the models look very faithful to the original. Even Biggs, Wedge, and Jesse. They look exactly like I imagined they would. Okay, maybe I wouldn't have given Wedge shoulder armor, but otherwise pretty faithful.
Just to add onto some of what you said regarding the gauges and combat (because why not?). If you look at the 1:20 mark in the video you'll see what looks like Cloud's action menu disappearing. Assuming I'm correct and not just drunk it seems that while the ATB is filling up you won't be able to do much besides (perhaps?) move around the area. From my assumptions it's looking like the big gauge on the left is the ATB while the teeny tiny one on the right is the Limit Break.

Whatever the gauges mean....OHMYGODITSSOPRETTY!!!! o_O
I rewatched the video a bit. And I noticed something else. The cursor was shown in two different colors. Blue and Gray. I'm not sure if that is significant, but I'm certain it means something in the combat.

But great catch on the action bar disappearing. That is so quick I didn't notice that. And I was rewatching those moments over and over to get the figure out the game's combat. However, I don't see any other enemies on screen at that moment, so it might be disappearing because Cloud defeated the last enemy. Considering that seems to be him executing his Braver Limit (he hit for 350 whereas he was hitting for 18-20 with normal attacks) I doubt the enemy survived that hit.

Lightspeaker said:
Saltyk said:
None of you are reading the other comments, are you?

I'm not saying it is going to be ATB, but it certainly could be. There is evidence of it in the trailer. Or perhaps some hybrid. We'll see if we get more gameplay trailers.
Actually I am, but that picture proves jack all. There have been MANY systems they've implemented into FF games over the past decade that 'look a bit like' ATB systems but are a far, far cry from proper turn based RPG combat systems. And as far as Squeenix is concerned I have absolutely zero faith in their ability to make a competent FF game anymore. Once again, its been fourteen years since they made one.
With all due respect, by that logic, the video proves nothing. For all we know, the combat is an updated version of the same system from Chrono Trigger. And I've had mixed feelings on the last several games. I don't even disagree with you. But I always judge each game on it's own merits. And there is very little to go on with this so far. So, I'm not throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Lightspeaker said:
FF13 was a hybrid and had fairly awful gameplay because of its action game influence.
Honestly, I played FFXIII again recently. And if they had slowed combat down a bit (down to the game's slow speed) and allowed you to control all three characters by switching between them after inputting commands I think the combat would have been pretty good. Those would have been some relatively minor changes.

Lightspeaker said:
FF12 was similarly a hybrid and was easily the worst entry in the entire franchise. An absolute sickening abomination of a title that seemed designed to be an MMO but in single player form.
FFXII is probably the worst game in the franchise in my opinion. Mostly because I hate Vaan. However, I wouldn't have minded the Gambit system if we were given access to the various Gambits right off the bat. But making the player buy them and not even having access to the full collection at any store seemed arbitrary. And it really limited what you could do with the system for no reason.

Lightspeaker said:
They need to just stop with this insanity honestly. Its utter nonsense. If this turns out to be just a remodelled FFXV system then its going to be terrible; because the XV system is pretty damn awful.
I watched some videos of people playing FFXV. It didn't look terrible. It looked kinda fun, actually. Had a Kingdom Hearts feel to it.

Lightspeaker said:
You'd think, having published Bravely Default recently, they'd know what a proper, traditional Final Fantasy should look like. I blame the MMOs personally. FFXI seemed to melt their collective brains. They've not made a good Final Fantasy since that launched.
Having played the MMOs, I actually liked both of them.

There's very little in this trailer. But what is here, looks good to me. And I'm a cynic.

Hell, before it was revealed that they were remaking this game, I was considering making a thread about why they should never remake FFVII. There are plenty of things I fear that we haven't gotten to in the game yet. Hell, can you imagine what Fox News will say if they learn about AVALANCHE? And I'm already dreading the reaction to Cross dressing Cloud from people claiming that it is making fun of transgender people. Cid verbally abuses Shera, too, so that will probably get a reaction. I also noticed a distinct lack of Barret cussing in this trailer, which disappoints me (they could even censor it like in the original).

I'm optimistic. FFVII is my all time favorite game. And this trailer seems to show that they are making it properly. I just want to see them moving in the World Map and a full fight to know more about the game. I'd even love a video showing how the Materia System works, now. Literally just a video of the menu as you equip Materia.
 
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Draconalis said:
aegix drakan said:
(Seriously, NO ONE used Nanaki
I was unaware my name had changed to No One.
:eek: Oh wow, you're a rarity.

I thought I was the only one who tried using him on a regular basis. Everyone else I know who played the game could not stand his limit breaks and just didn't use him at all outside of Cosmo Canyon and stuck with Cloud, Cid, and Barret most of the time.
 

Baresark

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I think the comments are a bit off base, it could still be ATB. ATB simply relies on a time bar to fill and then wants you to input the commands. If characters are moving around and being more active as this bar fills, it's still the ATB. Think of FFXII. It was still ATB but people were moving around and things were going on.
 

Draconalis

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aegix drakan said:
Draconalis said:
aegix drakan said:
(Seriously, NO ONE used Nanaki
I was unaware my name had changed to No One.
:eek: Oh wow, you're a rarity.

I thought I was the only one who tried using him on a regular basis. Everyone else I know who played the game could not stand his limit breaks and just didn't use him at all outside of Cosmo Canyon and stuck with Cloud, Cid, and Barret most of the time.
My team consists of Cloud, Nanaki, and Tifa/Cid (depending on how I feel at that moment. I like them both as characters)

And that was it. I could use the characters I LIKED versus the characters that were Meta, because besides their limits, they were all effectively the same.
 

Benpasko

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Seems horrible. The over-the-shoulder camera totally kills the epic feeling of the original game. I was really just hoping for HD assets over the original game.
 

EndlessSporadic

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I'm one of the rare bunch that enjoy real-time combat over turn-based so I think I would enjoy this game, but that voice acting was painful to listen to. I have never played the original either, so I don't feel like I am tied down by the past.
 

Revnak_v1legacy

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Vausch said:
Revnak said:
cojo965 said:
So much for "You guys showed us that traditional sells" huh guys?
You showed Nomura nothing. This is not a man who cares about Final Fantasy's traditional game design, and did not care about it back when other directors at Square were still big fans. This is a man who is less inclined to make this a typically paced turn based game than he is to make it a damn musical. Love him or hate him, he hardly speaks for the direction the company as a whole is taking in terms of turn based combat in games.
You mean one-button combat you can play while reading a book?

Actually by the pattern of Final Fantasy XIII, if they did keep the trend then by this game you could just weigh down L3 forward and the battles would play themselves.
Uh, you realize there were other words in that sentence than "mash attack." Not moving will kill you, not using abilities other than the basic combo is just dumb (and will eventually kill you). There is a demo you can go see right now. I have no clue how everyone is reaching conclusions like this about a game that actually has a demo out.
 

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

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elvor0 said:
I can understand wanting to flash up the combat a little bit, its a tough sell to people these days, but they could've easily reconciled that by having X-2s combat system. It's the ATB system, but sped up and way more fluid.
Like I said in the other thread, I don't see a point to going back to an antiquated combat system that hasn't been used by a FF game in over 10 years. It would make no sense for the remake of pretty much any JRPG to have random battles and that kind of combat system. Random battles are such a dead and horrible mechanic that I'd even go on to say that no console RPG will ever have them again (or at least in a very limited manner like Resonance of Fate). They only hinder exploration and make the world seem lifeless (since the land is barren without any life on it). When I played FF10, I couldn't believe the FF series still hadn't changed yet (my last try of the series before that was FF6); those Calm Lands were supposed to be teeming with life but they were less interesting to look at than my backyard. The first game to use random battles used it only due to hardware limitations at the time, we are way past hardware not being able to render enemies on the screen.

I don't care if the combat is flashy or not; however, flash seems like what the FF series was always going for so this only seems like the expected path and evolution the FF series would take IMO. I'm fine with an actual strategic and tactic turn-based system but not those old FF systems that is merely like playing a computer program vs a game as all you do is go through menus selecting the same commands over and over again. Just having allies and enemies standing across from each other trading blows was not strategic or tactical because positioning played no role in the battle system, which is very important to pretty much every good turn-based system (from DnD to XCOM to even Chess). FF12 literally proved that a few lines of code (if-then-else statements) would make the game play itself. Put gambits into any other those old FF games and they would play themselves as well. I don't see any strategic value in playing a combat system that can be automated with less than 10 lines of code (outside of the occasional boss battle). Xenosaga II had by far the best combat system in that series because it was the only game where you had to actually think ahead and plan, it wasn't overly strategic at all but at least it couldn't be automated with a few if-then-else statements. Pretty much everyone complained about how slow it was and they went back to a boring standard JRPG combat system for the 3rd game.

That's why you're not going to see any new console RPG use random battles or that old JRPG turned-based combat system. And that's why I said there's like no way the FF7 remake was going to have either of those elements. Also no FF game has had those elements in over 10 years.
 

Eric the Orange

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I'm still witholding judgement of the combat until I see more of it.

But I can comment that the atheistic seems a bit dark. I remember FF7 being kinda goofy for most of the game this seems like it wants to be the dark edgy reboot of FF7.
 

Vausch

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Revnak said:
Vausch said:
Revnak said:
cojo965 said:
So much for "You guys showed us that traditional sells" huh guys?
You showed Nomura nothing. This is not a man who cares about Final Fantasy's traditional game design, and did not care about it back when other directors at Square were still big fans. This is a man who is less inclined to make this a typically paced turn based game than he is to make it a damn musical. Love him or hate him, he hardly speaks for the direction the company as a whole is taking in terms of turn based combat in games.
You mean one-button combat you can play while reading a book?

Actually by the pattern of Final Fantasy XIII, if they did keep the trend then by this game you could just weigh down L3 forward and the battles would play themselves.
Uh, you realize there were other words in that sentence than "mash attack." Not moving will kill you, not using abilities other than the basic combo is just dumb (and will eventually kill you). There is a demo you can go see right now. I have no clue how everyone is reaching conclusions like this about a game that actually has a demo out.
Hey, I'm happy the gameplay is changing as it is. I almost always hate turn-based combat and FFXIII was so poorly designed in combat terms it practically played itself. Heck, it did play itself for other characters. I want real time combat, this has me excited for the game and I'm happy they're getting away from the trend of bad decisions.

I'm saying I'm glad they're getting away from the FFXIII trend. The fact that that game spawned 2 sequels is astounding to me and I'm convinced the excessive 9s and 10s it got were due to a happy ending.
 

ZeroAxis

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http://kotaku.com/sounds-like-the-final-fantasy-vii-remake-will-be-episod-1746564216?utm_campaign=Socialflow_Kotaku_Facebook&utm_source=Kotaku_Facebook&utm_medium=Socialflow

If this is true, then it kills it for me.