Final Fantasy XIII-2 Debuts to Lackluster Sales
- Thread starter Marshall Honorof
- Start date
IMO, the quality of the entire franchise has taken a sharp nose-dive over the last few years, and personally, I liked it when the games felt like VIDEOGAMES, and the cutscenes were cool little distractions after beating an epic enemy, or after something very important happened in the world the story was taking place in. Having to watch cutscene after cutscene just to know what was going on not only wasn't fun, it was downright boring!
How can Square-Enix fix this? Give the people a break from Final Fantasy for a bit, put the franchise on the shelf for maybe half a decade, take time to actually listen to the people who played the older games and find out what made them such hits in their eyes, perhaps include an ADULT protagonist that players that grew up with the Final Fantasy series can partially relate to, and fire whoever it is at Squeenix that has such a hard-on for the whole "Teenagers save the world from disaster" theme. If there was anything Final Fantasy XIII did right, it was Sazh.
How can Square-Enix fix this? Give the people a break from Final Fantasy for a bit, put the franchise on the shelf for maybe half a decade, take time to actually listen to the people who played the older games and find out what made them such hits in their eyes, perhaps include an ADULT protagonist that players that grew up with the Final Fantasy series can partially relate to, and fire whoever it is at Squeenix that has such a hard-on for the whole "Teenagers save the world from disaster" theme. If there was anything Final Fantasy XIII did right, it was Sazh.
That was a JRPG?j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
Funny thing, most of the protagonists in early Final Fantasy games *were* adults. I think Squeenix's problem is that it's fallen into the trap of blind repetition of standard anime tropes.IDS3Remix said:
In fact, blind use of standard tropes seems to be the problem with media in general everywhere in the world.
Not surprising, considering it's a sequel to a game that was a disappointment.
It's a little bit of a shame though, in the fact that I've heard this game is a major improvement over the last one.
Tales of Xillia surely deserves to sell more than it, though. Tales of has been better than Final Fantasy since Tales of Symphonia. People need to stop treating Final Fantasy as the JRPG flagship.
It's a little bit of a shame though, in the fact that I've heard this game is a major improvement over the last one.
Tales of Xillia surely deserves to sell more than it, though. Tales of has been better than Final Fantasy since Tales of Symphonia. People need to stop treating Final Fantasy as the JRPG flagship.
Final Fantasy XIII already sold way more than it should have, this is expected. I was one of the ones who pre-ordered FFXIII due to all the hype that it would bring Final Fantasy back to form, but found out that it was the exact opposite. I then preordered FFXIV.. probably the biggest burn in gaming I have ever experienced.
That cemented SE as a "wait for reviews" company for me. They are a team of nothing but artists with no one to direct them in a positive way. I have never seen such pointlessly bombastic CG that managed to be unbelievably boring to watch in a videogame with FFXIII. It's all style over substance now, that's the key to all their problems and they've still not realized that.
The fact that they said that FF7 could never be remade (I don't actually want a remake of that) because of how impossible it would be on modern tech will tell you everything. They basically can't make a game with that amount of sheer content and variability because they absolutely must put insane graphics in everything. It's disappointing. They should take a hint from their own handheld market that less is more.
That cemented SE as a "wait for reviews" company for me. They are a team of nothing but artists with no one to direct them in a positive way. I have never seen such pointlessly bombastic CG that managed to be unbelievably boring to watch in a videogame with FFXIII. It's all style over substance now, that's the key to all their problems and they've still not realized that.
The fact that they said that FF7 could never be remade (I don't actually want a remake of that) because of how impossible it would be on modern tech will tell you everything. They basically can't make a game with that amount of sheer content and variability because they absolutely must put insane graphics in everything. It's disappointing. They should take a hint from their own handheld market that less is more.
Who would have thought that after releasing a terrible MMO in an alpha state whereby they completely ignored all the feedback from their tester TRUE fans (as opposed to the mindless S-E teenage lapdog fanboys who lap everything up and call it great) would impact there fanbase? A game that penalised you for playing and made your character utterly weak who gets beat up by random wildlife? A game that aped an already unpopular world setting when they could have gone for one of their other more popular world settings? I can only think of the money that a FFT / FFTA, FF6 or FF7 world based MMO would have gathered.
Who would have thought releasing a corridor runner with ridiculous story and horrible characters (except the black guy, he was cool.. except for the racist afro bird nest) and terribly ridiculous weaponry and a combat system that pretty much ignored the player would impact their fanbase and sales?
Who would have thought that completely not -getting it- would damage their fanbase and sales?
I weep for the state of the loss of true final fantasy and I weep for the loss of squaresoft. Ever since they merged they have been in decline.
What is with the obsession with esoteric weather based names, emo/callous characters, ridiculous (and utterly impractical) looking gadget swords and insane plotlines / world settings?
Its like they're trying to ape FF7 with every game yet utterly ignoring the actual foundation that made it great in favor of thinking it was due to weather based names and the gloss over the solid bones of the setting.
And what is with the Japanese obsession with coming up with new 'combat systems'. Why not stick with what worked? (FF6-10) Why innovate for the sake of innovation? I hated FFX but I have to admit they had pretty much struck gold in regard to fine tuning the FF7 combat system. I used to think they were trying to perfect the system, but.. urgh.
Who would have thought releasing a corridor runner with ridiculous story and horrible characters (except the black guy, he was cool.. except for the racist afro bird nest) and terribly ridiculous weaponry and a combat system that pretty much ignored the player would impact their fanbase and sales?
Who would have thought that completely not -getting it- would damage their fanbase and sales?
I weep for the state of the loss of true final fantasy and I weep for the loss of squaresoft. Ever since they merged they have been in decline.
What is with the obsession with esoteric weather based names, emo/callous characters, ridiculous (and utterly impractical) looking gadget swords and insane plotlines / world settings?
Its like they're trying to ape FF7 with every game yet utterly ignoring the actual foundation that made it great in favor of thinking it was due to weather based names and the gloss over the solid bones of the setting.
And what is with the Japanese obsession with coming up with new 'combat systems'. Why not stick with what worked? (FF6-10) Why innovate for the sake of innovation? I hated FFX but I have to admit they had pretty much struck gold in regard to fine tuning the FF7 combat system. I used to think they were trying to perfect the system, but.. urgh.
I know I will end up buying this, I can't help it. But I will only buy it when the price drops drastically. I hated FFXIII and I will not buy its sequel at full price. That's my revenge, pointless little revenge I know, but makes me feel better. I don't care if people say it's fantastic, a must buy, best thing since oxygen, i will only pick it up when it's on sale.
That's too funnyFrozengale said:
Every time a Final Fantasy with "-2" in the name does poorly, a host of angels spread their wings for the first time.
I haven't played a good Square game since Final Fantasy IX. They've continuously tried to change the formula of the standard RPG to do something innovative and unique, and while I commend them on trying new things, this isn't the Final Fantasy I fell in love with. Paradigm shifts? Bull shit is more like it. I'd sooner play Lost Odyssey again then try any of the new Final Fantasy games. It's sad and I wish I could see new titles by Square come out that feel like the titles I liked, but sometimes that's what happens with your favorite developers.
I think the sales make a lot of sense. The people who bought XIII ended up being the population polarized by the game. All the folks that disliked XIII are not going to buy XIII-2 because it hasn't changed that much. Not all folks who liked XIII are going to get XIII-2 because of money, dislike in new changes, things like that.
Considering that XIII was quite polarizing and XIV has yet to show significant improvement, I'd like Square-Enix to at least give the Final Fantasy name a rest for a few years before making a new one if not just retire it outright. New IP, EVO remake, even finally wheeling out FFVI on the DS. Anything. Just let it cool off, give people time to forgive a little before entertaining us with FFXV.
Considering that XIII was quite polarizing and XIV has yet to show significant improvement, I'd like Square-Enix to at least give the Final Fantasy name a rest for a few years before making a new one if not just retire it outright. New IP, EVO remake, even finally wheeling out FFVI on the DS. Anything. Just let it cool off, give people time to forgive a little before entertaining us with FFXV.
screw the disappointment of the first game
it's just the hype that is missing
no matter how bad xiii might've been if they released this game 2 years later the sales would be right up where they used to be
i got my imported copy today
it sure doesn't look worse... not like it would look much different at all
it's just sad that most people won't give it a chance
it is still the creme de la creme of jrpgs
nothing more and nothing less
it's just the hype that is missing
no matter how bad xiii might've been if they released this game 2 years later the sales would be right up where they used to be
i got my imported copy today
it sure doesn't look worse... not like it would look much different at all
it's just sad that most people won't give it a chance
it is still the creme de la creme of jrpgs
nothing more and nothing less
Although I'm really happy this flopped... I'm also kind of sad for them.
I loved Final Fantasy growing up, I really did.. but ever since they moved away from aeons and went for a more sci fi approach I've just moved on, I hope they go back to when the series was good and start thinking from scratch =/
Honestly though, I didn't expect this to end well. Not only did I hear next to no marketing of this game beyond a couple trailers but the idea in its self was bad (I need only cite the reaction to X-2)
I loved Final Fantasy growing up, I really did.. but ever since they moved away from aeons and went for a more sci fi approach I've just moved on, I hope they go back to when the series was good and start thinking from scratch =/
Honestly though, I didn't expect this to end well. Not only did I hear next to no marketing of this game beyond a couple trailers but the idea in its self was bad (I need only cite the reaction to X-2)
I didn't play FF XIII to begin with...truth is I haven't played an FF game since I rented FF X-2 and took it back approximately 2 hours later when I realized it was essentially Barbie Dress-Up in Final Fantasy Land. But aside from the fact that I'm an XBox player and as such have been disconnected from the FF series when it became PS exclusive, the last FF game that I actually enjoyed was the original Final Fantasy Tactics for the regular Play Station. I could be wrong on my dates, but I'm pretty sure that was the last one that Square Soft made before they became Square-Enix. FF8 was just way too easy, FF9 was way too childish and cartoony. Thought I enjoyed FF10, but the more I thought about it the more I realized I just liked playing Blitz-Ball, and then as I said I rented and returned FF 10-2 within a couple hours.
My personal history with the series aside, I believe the franchise has been going downhill for a long time. Seems to me that Western players just aren't into the whole image of the JRPG for reasons that Yahtzee does a fantastic job of illustrating (the looks of the characters, the bizarre wardrobes, the constantly asking "Is this character a guy or girl?"). I miss the days when Final Fantasy actually took place in FANTASY settings. I'm talking Final Fantasy 1 - 6. There were some high-tech elements within them, but for the most part your still visiting a king in Castle FillInTheBlank, your characters us swords and spears and bows and such, and an airship was literally a sea-fairing ship combined with the helocopter.
But most importantly: there were no direct sequels. Each game was a world and universe unto itself, and I guess for all the tl,dr people out there, the over all point is this: the reason direct sequels to FF games don't do well is because they feel foriegn to fans of the series. FF games aren't supposed to have sequels, they're supposed to be good enough to stand on their own merits. FF games are supposed to end on a definite note, that the evil has been vanquished and they lived happily ever after, the end.
My personal history with the series aside, I believe the franchise has been going downhill for a long time. Seems to me that Western players just aren't into the whole image of the JRPG for reasons that Yahtzee does a fantastic job of illustrating (the looks of the characters, the bizarre wardrobes, the constantly asking "Is this character a guy or girl?"). I miss the days when Final Fantasy actually took place in FANTASY settings. I'm talking Final Fantasy 1 - 6. There were some high-tech elements within them, but for the most part your still visiting a king in Castle FillInTheBlank, your characters us swords and spears and bows and such, and an airship was literally a sea-fairing ship combined with the helocopter.
But most importantly: there were no direct sequels. Each game was a world and universe unto itself, and I guess for all the tl,dr people out there, the over all point is this: the reason direct sequels to FF games don't do well is because they feel foriegn to fans of the series. FF games aren't supposed to have sequels, they're supposed to be good enough to stand on their own merits. FF games are supposed to end on a definite note, that the evil has been vanquished and they lived happily ever after, the end.
I know I am in the minority but I really enjoyed XIII I thought it was a pretty great game overall and I really enjoyed the story. I think people just want to hate it and most have not given it a fair shake.
The long "tutorial" as people call it is no different then pretty much every other final fantasy game think in VII how long you basically had a linear path you had to follow with little to no magic and just items for healing or VI how long before you can actually start equipping and using espers.
The combat system was not the best in the world but I enjoyed it and found with a little learning and some trial and error I was able to get it down and became pretty proficient at its use and not always relying on auto to win. But I am not really an average customer I enjoy turn based systems more then action systems. Kingdom Hearts I enjoyed but found it more about reaction time and dodging and swinging the keyblade or in crisis core when you did use magic half the time it would not connect so magic basically became more useful as an addon to weapons or healing. As opposed to the turn based/active time battle where it is more about choosing the correct magic and moves while keeping yourself alive and trying to predict what the enemy is going to do (especially doing low level runs).
The characters while a little grating in the early game did grow and change as the game progressed more then a lot of other ff games. I thought one of the best things about XIII was the way in which you were watching the characters grow in both attitude and fighting ability throughout the game, instead of just a large leap from I don't know how to swing a sword to full magic and combat knowledge in 2.5 seconds. These characters seemed to have to learn what they were using.
The story was actually pretty decent if you took the time to figure out the different words that were very similar in pronunciation but meant very different things. I also enjoy a good story with deeper meanings that you may have to make connections yourself. I enjoy internal conflicts even if they are cliche (people seem to think this is emo but seriously how would you react if everything that you believed in or were fighting for got destroyed or was not what you thought it was). For those people complaining about the hard to follow naming scheme try reading the first books in the Dune series the names in XIII were nothing compared to those books.
Granted I did miss the towns and exploration of the great FF's of old but I still really liked XIII and will definitely be picking up XIII-2. I will not complain or praise XIII-2 story/fighting system until I play it and see exactly how they make it work.
The long "tutorial" as people call it is no different then pretty much every other final fantasy game think in VII how long you basically had a linear path you had to follow with little to no magic and just items for healing or VI how long before you can actually start equipping and using espers.
The combat system was not the best in the world but I enjoyed it and found with a little learning and some trial and error I was able to get it down and became pretty proficient at its use and not always relying on auto to win. But I am not really an average customer I enjoy turn based systems more then action systems. Kingdom Hearts I enjoyed but found it more about reaction time and dodging and swinging the keyblade or in crisis core when you did use magic half the time it would not connect so magic basically became more useful as an addon to weapons or healing. As opposed to the turn based/active time battle where it is more about choosing the correct magic and moves while keeping yourself alive and trying to predict what the enemy is going to do (especially doing low level runs).
The characters while a little grating in the early game did grow and change as the game progressed more then a lot of other ff games. I thought one of the best things about XIII was the way in which you were watching the characters grow in both attitude and fighting ability throughout the game, instead of just a large leap from I don't know how to swing a sword to full magic and combat knowledge in 2.5 seconds. These characters seemed to have to learn what they were using.
The story was actually pretty decent if you took the time to figure out the different words that were very similar in pronunciation but meant very different things. I also enjoy a good story with deeper meanings that you may have to make connections yourself. I enjoy internal conflicts even if they are cliche (people seem to think this is emo but seriously how would you react if everything that you believed in or were fighting for got destroyed or was not what you thought it was). For those people complaining about the hard to follow naming scheme try reading the first books in the Dune series the names in XIII were nothing compared to those books.
Granted I did miss the towns and exploration of the great FF's of old but I still really liked XIII and will definitely be picking up XIII-2. I will not complain or praise XIII-2 story/fighting system until I play it and see exactly how they make it work.
I pretty much agree with you.midpipps said:
And with the 20 hour "tutorial" complaint, yeah it was a little tedious, but I didn't think it was that bad or as painful as people claim it to be. I think what SE does the best is character development and with FFXIII, I think they did a pretty good job of doing that. Now, if they did a half-assed job of it, then I can see the complaint of the characters, but thankfully that really isn't the case.
The story took me a while to get it, and I think I re-read everything that was in the datalog since it was a little confusing, but when I did I think the story was pretty good, not the best story I've ever encountered in a game, but pretty good.
I agree about Dune though, they were good books, but just confusing and I think I had to write things down a few times just so I wouldn't have to flip the book back and figure out what's going on.
Haters gonna hate. Believe it or not, some people actually liked FFXIII; my personal favorites next to FFIX are FFXII and FFXIII (hell, even FFX-2 was good and pretty unique compared to the other games). The games aren't getting worse, it's the fanbase that's the problem. Every FF game is different in some way from the previous installment, so of course some people will feel betrayed when a new game comes out that tries something new. This is why the FF fanbase is so divided and why opinions on each game vary drastically. I can understand if people don't like the newest installments, but to hope that Square Enix does bad so that they learn a lesson? Really?! Square Enix doesn't deserve so much hate.