Finnish Hearthstone Tournament Changes Policy on Women - Update

[Pinky's Brain]

So I am not supporting the fact to split the sport, and I am even more saddened they say it's because "of other sports do the same", but if they'd try to have everyone join, and all females would fall out of the tournament in the first or second round (highly unlikely) then that would certainly prove there might be a need for different competitions for the genders, but without even trying is pretty sad.

It's not a bad argument, but it doesn't apply for the games which don't have competitions for women in the first place. Personally I'd say just do it the Chess way, have a mixed and women only competition (although for logistical reasons you should only be able to enter one at a given tournament).

 

[gridsleep]

A game that simulates a sport is still a game. eSports is game playing, not sport competition. Everyone involved in this absurd argument is being imbecilic.

 

[Guffe]

So I am not supporting the fact to split the sport, and I am even more saddened they say it's because "of other sports do the same", but if they'd try to have everyone join, and all females would fall out of the tournament in the first or second round (highly unlikely) then that would certainly prove there might be a need for different competitions for the genders, but without even trying is pretty sad.

It's not a bad argument, but it doesn't apply for the games which don't have competitions for women in the first place. Personally I'd say just do it the Chess way, have a mixed and women only competition (although for logistical reasons you should only be able to enter one at a given tournament).

Holy shit dude!!!
They actually read your post! xD

Update:
"Therefore, we have decided to remove "male-only" competitions. This means the upcoming IeSF World Championship will host tournaments in 2 sections:
an "open-for-all" section which is open for all genders (replacing men-only competitions), and a female-only tournaments as stated previously"

 

[Phrozenflame500]

No, I don't think so, still it's gender divided, there are some mix competitions, but they're rare. In snooker they actually have a female who is a 7 or 8 time world champion and way better than anyone else. She is never seen in tournaments because she always loses in the qualifiers (not only her, but all other women who try to get to the pro circuit). And this is a sport were the main atribute you need is concentration and a good cuing technique!

Alright, I can kinda see the logic behind this where gender-segregated tournys could encourage more women into a sport then discourage it.

But it is still kinda dumb the way e-sports keeps doing shit solely for the purpose of being seen as a "real sport". Particularly this part:

This World Champsionship's titles include Dota 2, Starcraft 2, Hearthstone, and Ultra Street Fighter IV in the male competition. The female competitions include Starcraft 2 and Tekken Tag Tournament.

Yeah, if you're going to segregate the competition at least have the same games in each category...

 

[Gamer87]

On an off topic note, this got me thinking. Does rules like this exist in for example world championships in chess?

Chess effectively does positive discrimination for women (and there is nothing inherently wrong with positive discrimination). You have a mixed circuit and a women only circuit.

There is nothing wrong with positive discrimination except that it's insulting. And unfair.

 

[Macsen Wledig]

There's no sexism in the gaming subculture. Nope. None. Zilch.

 

[Zhukov]

What is "RO8"?

I googled it, but all I got was acronyms for "round of eight".

 

[Pinky's Brain]

A game that simulates a sport is still a game. eSports is game playing, not sport competition. Everyone involved in this absurd argument is being imbecilic.

I hold the same opinion over anyone who tries to declare objective truth in semantic arguments.

I have no strong opinion either way, but to say that the definition of sports is debated is putting it mildly.

 

[Fdzzaigl]

I feel the need to restrain my sudden murderous urges directed toward those retards.

After seeing the drama and reaction on some internet fora (not this one) toward DA:I's first "all gay" romance option and now this, my faith in humanity has severely diminished over the last few days.

Honestly, I hope some possible female participants take this to court and roll all over those bastards. However, as the female gamer groups are still fairly small, I fear that this fucking organisation can simply marginalize them without consequence.

 

[WouldYouKindly]

You forgot the reason why men and women compete separately. It's because their physical capabilities are too different. This being e-sports, something where physical capabilities scarcely come in at all.

I went and took a look at chess, which is still gender segregated for some reason. But chess has been around forever and women's tournaments might have been started before women were allowed to vote(in the U.S. anyway), so it can be seen as a holdover for a bygone era.

Why recreate this mentality in a modern sport where physical differences are meaningless?

 

[Pinky's Brain]

There is nothing wrong with positive discrimination except that it's insulting.

No woman is forced into the women only chess circuit ... would/do you feel insulted as a woman by it's mere existence?

And unfair.

Sometimes it takes two unfairs to make a fair.

 

[Jennacide]

The only reason for segregation in athletic sports is because male players in almost every sport have more height and muscle mass than female players, and would be considered an unfair advantage. How, pray tell, is a CARD GAME going to be effected by the gender of the player? This is fucking insulting and stupid. And it makes me happy they'll probably never go anywhere because of this ruling. At least in things like DOTA 2 and LoL there is no rule against female players, there just aren't very many at the competitive pro level, and even less that want to join a pro team. (Seriously, I think there is only one female player in LoL right now, a Korean women as a sub for a team)

 

[Pinky's Brain]

you'd basically be OK with it if they'd say there's one for women and one for men, but due to the fact there's ONLY one for men it's not OK

It's not that I would be okay with it, but I can understand the argument and I wouldn't call them bad names for doing it.

 

[Guffe]

you'd basically be OK with it if they'd say there's one for women and one for men, but due to the fact there's ONLY one for men it's not OK

It's not that I would be okay with it, but I can understand the argument and I wouldn't call them bad names for doing it.

Then I understood you

I wonder if all this publicity will make them change the rules or way of the tournament?
It certainly isn't good in any way. And now everyone will be able to start calling gamers all sorts of awful things again
*sigh*

 

[rednightmare]

E-sports are not real sports! They are E-sports. I do not mean that in a bad way. I mean that E-sports need to stop chasing the Sports title by doing everything the same way as physical sports. That way you aren't playing to your strengths (mixed competition being totally doable in E-sports without problems), but getting yourself pulled down by the disadvantages of other sports.

"This is to avoid possible conflicts (e.g. a female player eliminating a male player during RO8) among other things."

So this has nothing to do with wanting females to have fair chances, but your just afraid of female competence, cause that is what I am reading in this comment.

And if it is to give females a chance to compete in E-sports: Scarlet called, she would like to have a word with you. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Scarlett

 

[Oskuro]

"Since the IeSF World Championship Hearthstone tournament in Baku is male only, we can only accept male participants in the Finnish qualifier,"

I think this might be the actual issue. The tournament is male only, and rather than open it to women, they are looking for a logical-sounding justification to block female players from entering.

So it's even worse than plain segregation, as no female-only alternative is even been offered. It's a cover up for a straight up exclusion of women from the game.


Why is the tournament male only? No idea, but possibly due to socio-cultural reasons (That is, deeply rooted* sexism both in organizers and audiences)



* By deeply-rooted I mean the type of sexist attitudes so ingrained in a culture people don't even realize they have it. For an example, talking to the average grandparent about gender issues should suffice. Not calling people "evil" here, just pointing out that the problem tends to be larger than just the individuals.

 

[Lieju]

Yes, well, obviously women have an unfair advantage. If a male gamer becomes aware of a female they will instinctively try to protect them in order to achieve 1st base/run away in fear of cooties/faint, especially if the female in question is menstruating.

But it is still kinda dumb the way e-sports keeps doing shit solely for the purpose of being seen as a "real sport". Particularly this part:

This World Champsionship's titles include Dota 2, Starcraft 2, Hearthstone, and Ultra Street Fighter IV in the male competition. The female competitions include Starcraft 2 and Tekken Tag Tournament.

Yeah, if you're going to segregate the competition at least have the same games in each category...

Yeah, this is confusing.

Maybe Starcraft 2 and Tekken have more female players? That's the only reason I can think of.